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How will Bill C-36 affect your hobbying?

How will Bill C-36 affect your hobbying?

  • No change for me. The chances of getting caught are pretty slim.

    Votes: 20 22.7%
  • I will continue, but will make adjustments to reduce my risks of getting caught.

    Votes: 26 29.5%
  • I will lie low for a while to see if and how the law will be applied here.

    Votes: 31 35.2%
  • That's it for me. I'm out of here. I was thinking of quitting any way.

    Votes: 9 10.2%
  • Other. Please post your answer, unless you prefer to remain anonymous.

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Total voters
    88
  • Poll closed .

RobinX

Member
Aug 30, 2009
452
0
16
Montreal
Bill C-36, which criminalizes the buying of sex has now passed. How will this affect your hobbying?

1. No change for me. The chances of getting caught are pretty slim.
2. I will continue, but will make adjustments to reduce my risks of getting caught.
3. I will lie low for a while to see if and how the law will be applied here.
4. That's it for me. I was thinking of quitting any way.
5. Other. Please post your answer, unless you prefer to remain anonymous.

This is an anonymous poll.
 

rollingstone

Member
Sep 4, 2006
655
3
18
After my upcoming trip I won't have plans to return to Canada in a hobbying capacity. Its a shame because there were so many providers, both in Montreal and Toronto, that I wanted to see. My job takes me to Europe 3-4 times a year so I will make the adjustment to Eastern European and German providers.
 

Halloween Mike

Original Dude
Apr 19, 2009
5,080
1,143
113
Winterfell
Consider i operate in a very safe way, as in calling from a small quiet hotel, not known to the LE, also the staff know me well and i think like to have my business, and finally that i stick to the same 2-3 agencies, and a couple indies i know are safe, well the chances for me for having problems with it are minimal.

I still think they need to prove the situation... and that wouldn't be an easy task.

But that being said i was thinking of taking a change in my hobbying. Nothing to do with the law, but just because i need to take back my life a bit. This hobby is costing me too much money, i am over budget. So i decided that GG6 will be my last time this year, and i will take an undetermined break after that, i hope to at least febuary. Probably around the next GG or MTLGFE GT, depending wich one happen before and at wich time.

I also decided to lower the number of meeting i will have total next year. I got a game plan i hope to be able to follow, and pay my debts and eventually be able to do the things i want to do in life. Anyway, this ain't not done yet, but i hope to be able to follow what i have in mind, but the new stupid law certainly ain't the killswitch for me.
 

Smartnsexy

Member
Jul 28, 2011
90
14
8
My understanding is that it went to Royal Assent around the 5th of this month (ironically enough) and after that there's a 30 day grace period.
 

daydreamer41

Active Member
Feb 9, 2004
2,722
2
36
NY State
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On Terb they said December 6th.
 

gurgeh85

New Member
Jan 19, 2014
426
0
0
Consider i operate in a very safe way, as in calling from a small quiet hotel, not known to the LE, also the staff know me well and i think like to have my business, and finally that i stick to the same 2-3 agencies, and a couple indies i know are safe, well the chances for me for having problems with it are minimal.

I still think they need to prove the situation... and that wouldn't be an easy task.

I agree. Unless you're a complete dummy about it, getting arrested for doing this is nearly impossible.

I'll add this: even if I got arrested, I think a lot of people in my life would be happily surprised to discover that all this time I've been sleeping with beautiful women rather than hanging around at home masturbating. So, maybe there can even be an upside to getting arrested! Don't worry about it. Just live your life...
 

easyguy

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
95
0
0
on the border
I agree, the possibility of arrest is very low. But don’t trick yourself, there is huge psychological difference in doing something legal even not approved by the majority of population or participating in what defined by law as illegal, criminal activity. This exposes you for potential blackmail not only from criminals but your former ex, business partners, neighbors etc., etc. People of affluence and considerable wealth will worry the most. The attraction of Montreal to US hobbyists will decrease substantially.
 

rollingstone

Member
Sep 4, 2006
655
3
18
I agree, the possibility of arrest is very low. But don’t trick yourself, there is huge psychological difference in doing something legal even not approved by the majority of population or participating in what defined by law as illegal, criminal activity. This exposes you for potential blackmail not only from criminals but your former ex, business partners, neighbors etc., etc. People of affluence and considerable wealth will worry the most. The attraction of Montreal to US hobbyists will decrease substantially.

Agreed. Especially since the new law would only find one of the two parties at fault. Bait & switch operators could now not only scam you, but they can blackmail you as well!
 

rollingstone

Member
Sep 4, 2006
655
3
18
When I lived in the US the primary reason I would hobby in Montreal was legality. When I moved overseas I would comeback to Montreal because of my ATF and a sense of familiarity. Between my ATF retiring and C-36 there is nothing to keep me here. I've already gotten used to the idea of mongering in Europe and will see 3 different women over 5 days in Paris on my way back from Montreal.
 

man77777

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2011
1,682
33
48
C-36 has the possibility of changing items 1-3. Hot young girls are only going to do this and stick with it if the money is good. Traditional economics of a fixed store location does not apply here. It is a transient service business. If demand goes down, the price of a hot girl will go up to allow her to earn enough. If she still doesn't earn enough, she will look for alternatives like the Sugar Daddy route or a job that allows her to flaunt it for tips.

If there is a crackdown on agencies, the supply will go down, and fewer relatively younger women will incur the high fixed costs and enormous hassle of advertising and scheduling and transporting themselves to the customer. And if they do, those high fixed costs are going to get passed on to customers. It does now, but the economies of scale enjoyed by a large agency will not exist.

There is a lot more to worry about than the unlikely events of arrest or blackmail. Montreal has long has the best pricing for the desired experience in North America. Time will tell if that changes.

100% agree. Montreal will continue to be the paradise it is if the demand stay high and so if people wont get to scary about this new harmless law..
 

BookerL

Gorgeous ladies Fanatic
Apr 29, 2014
5,805
6
0
Northern emisphere
Agreed. Especially since the new law would only find one of the two parties at fault. Bait & switch operators could now not only scam you, but they can blackmail you as well!
The bigger fish is always the one of interest !
How can a Bait&Switch escort agency operator can Blackmail with this new law ,he is also committing a crime without the blackmail?


Cheers



Booker
 

BookerL

Gorgeous ladies Fanatic
Apr 29, 2014
5,805
6
0
Northern emisphere
Why would anything need to change? I mean i can't speak for others but if i call to see a SP it is for company first and foremost and whatever happens behind closed doors between two consenting adults is private and between just those 2 adults. Of course i am talking about seeing reputable Indy's and seeing ladies only from reputable Agencies...... gone are the days of "taking a chance" on craigslist and backpage.

I assume tho that many guys will be scared no doubt and stop for awhile and then after some time they likely will see only their favorite Indy's and use only Agencies they trust with good reputations from Merb but isn't that the norm anyways for most here?

This is what's nice about having all these GT's the last 2 years, it has developed friendships and or some sort of trust between guys and girls in this industry and opened a whole new stream of good and useful information about who you CAN trust and who you CAN'T as well it has provided much more insight from many different perspectives on all things "hobbyland" that you cannot get (or trust) by not meeting face to face with the people you are dealing with
.


Hi all


A big congrats on your efforts Igana ,However a arrest has a tendency to brake friendships .Knowing other hobbyist might backfire ?
When someone has never been arrested it is very hard to predict how he will react and feel about his arrest and what he will be willing to do ,to have the charges dropped or reduced .
Police investigators are specialist in stirring shit amongst people ,to gather infos they will intimidate and pretend heavy sentences or penalties ,It is predictable already that hobbyist escort operators drivers etc ..that where never arrested will crack under pressure and provide names and situations and valid leads .


I was myself arrested so many times that I don't even remember the full count .
I still have no criminal record ,but I am well known by LE !:lol:
Each time that your are shackled a lot goes through your mind and not necessarily fantasy land .
The theories of the law and conduct of Law enforcement are two different things .
Many times they do not respect the law .And when you are in the shafter you are scared its a normal human feeling !
further more many hobbyist escort operators etc... have never spoken to a Canadian criminal lawyer in there life ,
When the tide hits it does shake the temple of belief !

Good Luck to all




Booker
 

easyguy

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
95
0
0
on the border
Why would anything need to change? I mean i can't speak for others but if i call to see a SP it is for company first and foremost and whatever happens behind closed doors between two consenting adults is private and between just those 2 adults. Of course i am talking about seeing reputable Indy's and seeing ladies only from reputable Agencies...... gone are the days of "taking a chance" on craigslist and backpage.

-------------------------------------

Because of one SP i met at a party and became friends with, i now have several of her sp friends and or friends of their friends who i can see by simply calling or texting or emailing and simply saying "i would like to see you on such and such a date" and never once discuss money or services other than in person behind closed doors, face to face. There are also many guys i have met where the same things happened pertaining to them providng me info on other trustworthy ladies and so on with many others and to which i give back the same. It is a network of good hobby people, not the low life scum of the streets that c36 is mainly targetting IMHO.

As much as I have respect for the old boyz’ Montreal hobby club, you overestimate its economical impact on Montreal hobby industry. For the occasional hobbyist that visits Montreal on business, including numerous conferences, symposia and other meetings, the local law on prostitution is of primary importance when he considers calling escorts. The depletion of this market segment will be painful for the industry with consequences that are difficult to predict (rising or falling prices, reduction in available “talent” etc)
 

CLOUD 500

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2005
6,792
3,524
113
I completely agree with Easyguy. I imagine that it will probably become similar to the US. I think prices will most definitely rise to compensate for the increased risk and screening. But this will all depend on how LE will enforce this law and how the clients will react. Will they be very cautious or too scared to book any escorts? Or will they simply carry on their business as usual.
 

HornyForEver

Banned
Sep 19, 2005
893
0
0
Montreal
I think that strip clubs will benefit from this law. Many clients deserted strip clubs in the recent years. The reason was that seeing an escort is more economically viable than strippers, which is true. Though, given the new risk of getting convicted for just seeing an escort, many clients will resort back to strip clubs. Also, many girls (students...) will prefer stripping to working as escorts as there will be a shortage of escort clients at least during the few coming months as many of us are in a wait-and-see mode. Also, don't forget that 2015 is an elections year, and I am pretty sure that the cons will show to the population that this law will not just stay ink on paper.

It will be interesting how will this affect prices. Will they increase as the price of anything illegal is always higher or will they decrease due to the lack of demand. Wait and see.
 

daydreamer41

Active Member
Feb 9, 2004
2,722
2
36
NY State
Visit site
I completely agree with Easyguy. I imagine that it will probably become similar to the US. I think prices will most definitely rise to compensate for the increased risk and screening. But this will all depend on how LE will enforce this law and how the clients will react. Will they be very cautious or too scared to book any escorts? Or will they simply carry on their business as usual.

The US escort scene is a different animal altogether. There are agencies which run pretty much underground through only a website like this and do screen. Their fees run range significantly. The trend has been the fees are comparable Montreal and Toronto ($200 to $300 hr) depending on where. Manhattan may run more, but not necessarily. There are agencies which operate on backpage. There are small towns in New Jersey and Long Island which LE heavily targets prostitution because they have nothing else to police. There are towns which look the other way.

So your comparison to the US is apples and oranges. Prostitution in the US is enforced mainly by states. The US states have had prostitution laws outlawing prostitution for 100 years. Enforcement of these laws have changed with different players in different places. This new law for Canada is something new. Everyone is entering a period of the unknown in regards to how LE will react, and how it will be prosecuted.

I suspect after this law goes into effect, there may be a feeling out period for the agencies and clientele. If the demand drops, the first reaction is always falling prices, not increasing prices.

I suspect also that many guys are gathering intel and exchanging numbers with their favorite girls for UTR accommodations. This is a well liked model among many hobbyists is the US. I suspect it will flourish in the beginning periods of this law, but it will require work as girls quit to find new ones. But the black market so to speak always is established once a law targets a product or behavior. And this is what the Bedford decision was trying to prevent.
 

escapefromstress

New Member
Mar 15, 2012
215
0
0
The actual enforcement of the new laws is actually a matter that will be handled by local LE and the provinces, particularly the various Attorney Generals and their staff, who will guide LE. Not the federal government.

The Harper Government is at odds with some provinces (most notably Ontario) - and has hardly maintained a constructive dialogue with most of them. They`re not really in a position to dictate to them how the new law will be enforced. So I don`t see them picking fights with some provinces over this when they have more important things to worry about; for instance, getting ready for the upcoming elections and play up their economic record.

The new law was primarily written in a manner to please the Conservatives` political base - not to gain new votes. Over the past few years, the Cons have made concessions - despite the objections of their base - over the issues of gay marriage and abortion, for instance. They probably felt they couldn`t do this again, especially over an issue that is not on the immediate radar of most Canadians.

As for local authorities, already the City of Victoria and its LE have indicated that they won`t enforce large chunks of C-36, and the same with Vancouver.

Some weeks ago, the inspector in charge of the prostitution unit at the SPVM indicated on Radio-Canada that, C-36 or no C-36, their priorities were going to remain: underage sex workers, actual trafficking, and coerced prostitution. As for the rest, it would be up to the Directeur des poursuites crimiellis et pénales (DPCP), an independent appointment, to decide how to proceed. Given the DPCP helped SPVM design its new 3-year policy on prostitution even though they knew C-36 was in the pipeline, I believe this gives strong clues as to how it will be enforced in Quebec, and in Montreal specifically.

On the other hand, there are other places like Calgary and York Region, where it`s likely to be enforced fairly stringently - given the stance their chiefs of police took in front of the HoC Justice Committee this summer, and that they were directly consulted during the drafting of the Bill.

MacKay and his staff were very selective about whom they consulted while they were drafting the Bill, and whose opinion they listened to. For example, SPVM submitted a brief to the Department, and from what the inspector said on Radio-Canada, their take on the issue wasn`t taken into account. Other police forces and chiefs have publicly expressed doubts about parts of the Bill; for example, Chief Weighill from Saskatoon.

They haven`t really discussed any of this with the provinces, and haven`t given them additional resources to tackle this task. This is all quite different than what happened when the - now - old provision on communication (s213) was implemented with Bill C-49 back in the 1980s. Everybody was on board back to fully enforce it, and it ended up being a big mess instead, which made things worse - and eventually led to more relaxed enforcement of the prostitution laws.

I believe we`re more likely to see a patchwork of enforcement scenarios across the country - some places being more lenient than others - which will be dictated more by local contexts rather than what the Cons in Ottawa might want.

I concur. :nod:
 

Bobinnyc

New Member
Jul 27, 2013
56
1
0
The US escort scene is a different animal altogether. There are agencies which run pretty much underground through only a website like this and do screen. Their fees run range significantly. The trend has been the fees are comparable Montreal and Toronto ($200 to $300 hr) depending on where. Manhattan may run more, but not necessarily. There are agencies which operate on backpage. There are small towns in New Jersey and Long Island which LE heavily targets prostitution because they have nothing else to police. There are towns which look the other way.

So your comparison to the US is apples and oranges. Prostitution in the US is enforced mainly by states. The US states have had prostitution laws outlawing prostitution for 100 years. Enforcement of these laws have changed with different players in different places. This new law for Canada is something new. Everyone is entering a period of the unknown in regards to how LE will react, and how it will be prosecuted.

I suspect after this law goes into effect, there may be a feeling out period for the agencies and clientele. If the demand drops, the first reaction is always falling prices, not increasing prices.

I suspect also that many guys are gathering intel and exchanging numbers with their favorite girls for UTR accommodations. This is a well liked model among many hobbyists is the US. I suspect it will flourish in the beginning periods of this law, but it will require work as girls quit to find new ones. But the black market so to speak always is established once a law targets a product or behavior. And this is what the Bedford decision was trying to prevent.

You're 100% correct in your analysis. And some of my fav NYC agencies and in north jersey have pricing comparable to Montreal, whether Dream Team, Gentlemen's Choice and Jays Angels.

And they've been around for years. I love the Montreal scene but always thought it was over rated when you factored in the other costs. And I would speculate Montreal might be more tolerant than other cities, which is a point you alluded to. But all hobbyists must still be careful.
 

Joe.t

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2003
3,875
302
83
Le Chabrol, Saint - Jacques
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Bill C-36, which criminalizes the buying of sex has now passed. How will this affect your hobbying?

1. No change for me. The chances of getting caught are pretty slim.
2. I will continue, but will make adjustments to reduce my risks of getting caught.
3. I will lie low for a while to see if and how the law will be applied here.
4. That's it for me. I was thinking of quitting any way.
5. Other. Please post your answer, unless you prefer to remain anonymous.

This is an anonymous poll.

If anything I will increase my hobbying, I will fuck beautiful escorts until the day I die or when my cock falls off whichever comes first.:nod:
 
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