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Thread: is outcall less risky than a MP?

  1. #1

    is outcall less risky than a MP?

    Hey guys. I've been to Montreal a total of 4 times over the past 10 years, and have enjoyed a few of it's fantastic MPs (Kama, YPG)

    I'm going back in a few months, and was considering trying an outcall SP. It honestly seems much less risky from a legal standpoint, but I'd still love to stop by a MP while I'm there. (and now that I've joined merb, do a review, of course)

    My question is this: In light of the new laws, do you guys think the risk of arrest at a MP has increased, or is about the same as it was a few years ago? Do you think outcall (or incall) is less risky in terms of law-enforcement? do busts at the nice MPs even happen in Montreal?

    I know nothing in this hobby or this world is zero risk, but I'm curious what your opinions are about getting busted at a reputable massage parlor as compared to outcall or as compared to a few years ago.

    thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    Well if you go to a reputed massage place, the "risk" should be very small, but obviously the outcall set up is the best possible one. There risk is less than 0.5% lol
    Life is a party ! Death is the Hangover.. 70-49-6

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleSam View Post
    Outcall 0.000001% risk
    Incall 0.000002% risk
    MP 0.000003% risk
    I've done all the above, including out of town strip clubs a.k.a. bar ŕ gaffes very recently, which is not my thing but even that has 0.000004% risk
    You sound like a cross between a statistician and a bookie.
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by scofflaw View Post
    Do you think outcall (or incall) is less risky in terms of law-enforcement? do busts at the nice MPs even happen in Montreal?
    Let's say the LE for some reason needed to make a show of cracking down for some stupid political reason like a government official needs some brownie points for an upcoming campaign. Would it be easier to 1. stake out a massage parlor anyone can find and set up hidden recording stuff, or 2. try to guess where and when something is going on in any of the thousands of hotel/motel rooms in Montreal and try to trap someone somehow. Of course a place like the Chablis is about as bad as an MP...IF the LE was interested.



    Good luck,

    Merlot

  5. #5
    Canada does not have a long history of prosecution of sex work, so all that can reasonably be done is an analysis from the US, since Canadian law enforcement, unfortunately, is likely to copy the US.

    Incall massage parlor sexual work is more likely to be targeted in the US than outcall escorting because:

    It is extraordinarily complex to coordinate sending a cop into a hotel room, particularly when the cop is a female posing as a sex worker doing outcall. In fact, it simply does not happen. The female cop would never likely be asked to do this type of work, and she cannot be protected from potential harm. But male policemen often go to massage parlors and solicit sex. Sometimes all they get is a straight massage and no arrests are made, particularly since most massage ladies know that they short-haired guy who immediately asks for sex is clearly a cop. But sometimes the cop gets an acceptance from his offer, and he makes arrests. Even if had just gets a massage, that is not a bad way to spend an hour of work.

    These massage parlor arrests often get a lot of publicity. The naive public is more likely to accept that the massage parlor girl is enslaved than they would believe that a girl who travels freely to a hotel is being exploited. And the police are more likely to get the public to believe that shutting down the massage parlor helps the neighborhood, whereas a police sting operation at a nice hotel royally pisses off the hotel management and the hotel just might publicly say so.

    Plus in the US, at least, the police are often able to arrest the customers and other girls at the place. At first glance, thus would not seem possible due to the lack of evidence of a crime being committed in other rooms. But US states often have ridiculous "crack-house" laws that cause everyone in a facility to face major charges if they are committing a crime at a place where drugs are found. So if they arresting officer finds drugs in the purse of the girl he arrests, he can successfully arrest everyone present, with the knowledge that they will all plead guilty to some very minor crime to avoid even the slight possibility of being convicted on some major trumped-up charge that was designed with crack-houses in mind. I am not sure such a conviction has ever really happened in a sex work case, but the possibility is frightening.

    So the cops get a ton of mileage in a massage parlor raid in the US, making it a lot more dangerous for johns than just getting an outcall escort.

  6. #6
    Thanks - these are great answers, fellows. Sounds like everyone agrees that outcall is the way to go if one is paranoid about LE. (what, me? worry?)

    I love those percentages, too. After a dance and a drink at Cleo's .000003 is a chance I might be willing to take!

  7. #7
    One way to flesh out LE, at least it is quite common at MP establishments in the U.S. is for the girl to approach the massagee while partially naked (usually topless). If you proceed to fondle her while giving her a greeting hug then she knows you are safe. It works the other way too because a LE woman would not allow a massagee to fondle her, especially if she is on hidden camera. If you do not fondle her you may just get the standard massage. Of course, as Patron mentioned above, LE can set up raids, especially at Asian MP establishments where I used to live in Dallas, and sweep up everyone there for operating a known prostitution business, or something like that.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleSam View Post
    Outcall 0.000001% risk
    Incall 0.000002% risk
    MP 0.000003% risk
    I've done all the above, including out of town strip clubs a.k.a. bar ŕ gaffes very recently, which is not my thing but even that has 0.000004% risk
    The thing that worry's me about outcall is the possibility of a hotel employee or even management being a religious fanatic or someone who has been reading about what horrible people we are victimizing these girls and calling the police to report their suspicions.
    I usually stay in the hotel 4 nights and I am sure they know what I am doing there.

  9. #9
    the big difference between US and Canada is the penalty. In US they pretty much hope your married and they get your name put in the paper but other than that it is a slap on the wrist but in Canada the five year possible jail sentence is pretty scary and when the US sees what Canada is doing they may adopt the stiffer penalty.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by edjohnson View Post
    the big difference between US and Canada is the penalty. In US they pretty much hope your married and they get your name put in the paper but other than that it is a slap on the wrist but in Canada the five year possible jail sentence is pretty scary and when the US sees what Canada is doing they may adopt the stiffer penalty.
    the above was meant as a reply to Patron

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by edjohnson View Post
    The thing that worry's me about outcall is the possibility of a hotel employee or even management being a religious fanatic.... and calling the police to report their suspicions.
    I think this would be highly unlikely in Mtl. You might have issues at a small bnb, but even then they might just ask you to leave. The hotels definitely know what you're up to, and unless you're giving the girl a golden shower in the middle of the bed , i guarantee they dont care

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by edjohnson View Post
    The thing that worry's me about outcall is the possibility of a hotel employee or even management being a religious fanatic or someone who has been reading about what horrible people we are victimizing these girls and calling the police to report their suspicions.
    I usually stay in the hotel 4 nights and I am sure they know what I am doing there.
    It is easy to get poisoned by the nonsense that is shown on TV crime dramas. The hotel can kick any guest out that they want, but having an unregistered guest into a room does not prove any crime. Absent a condom with her vaginal fluids on the outside and your semen on the inside, there is no proof of sex even in the extraordinary situation of the sex worker testifying against a client. But those are some of the reasons that outcall is preferable to massage parlor incall. There is always the remote possibility of a hidden camera in the room for incall, and no reasonable expectation of privacy at the massage parlor. But of course what gets almost every guy charged and convicted of any sex crime is speaking to the police if questioned.

    Fortunately, this is mostly silliness. There are few, if any, guys in US jails purely for soliciting or patronizing a prostitute who was of legal age, with no other relevant conduct such as drug possession or parole violation involved. And there are not likely any guys in Canadian jails for mere solicitation or patronizing. So it does not really matter if the penalty is 30 days or five years.

    Criminal justice is mostly a game, and creating fear is part of the game. Getting people to believe they can be charged and convicted of a crime without any evidence and getting people to provide evidence against themselves are part of that game. Disproportionate penalties are another part of the fear game.

  13. #13
    and speaking of the hotel...

    When you have a SP coming to your hotel room, in a large hotel, do you just have her show herself up to your room, or do you meet her in the lobby? (obviously, if there's a keycard requirement in the elevator it's the latter)

    If she just comes up, then management won't even know who she's coming to see. But if they stop her and ask, and she tells them she's going up to my room, then she's made it quite clear who she's there to see and drawn extra attention to the situation...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by scofflaw View Post
    in a large hotel, do you just have her show herself up to your room, or do you meet her in the lobby?
    ladys genraly go directly ur room. ladys/indys or agency bookers will ask u for room number and of name of hotel and posbily adresse if it is not nown wen u book. if u perfer meeting lady in lobby or htel bar or resto, u just tell lady/indy/booker and u then show to ur room.

    i use to outcalls only wen i live in toronto and cam to montreal for busness & had hotel rental and in the ~10 years of this, i only had a lady stop once at hotel by reception. i am not sur why she was stop but i think it might be ether she look loss wen she look for elevater or it mite be b/c hotel had free breakfast buffet & i scene her in morning during free breakfast buffet. the reception call me and tell me r u expecting a miss veronika? i was surprisd by call & sayd yes. she came up without any problems & i ask her why she stop at reception and she telld me she didnt.

    the first time i use outcall in montreal ~15 years ago, indy lady ask my real name for hotel checkin. i ask why and she telld me that she calls hotel and ask for room number to verify that i am at the room and hotel will not transfer withut name of guess. after i hang up, she call me at hotel room to confrm apointment. i gave my real name that one time in montreal but was never ask again by anyone else or any other agencys. she telld me that she call hotel to make sure i is not prank call or time waster. the only other time i gave me real name was in the usa wich is difrent. now i would probly not give my name if askd. this was ~15 years ago so i dont think it hapens now. even then i think it was rar.

  15. #15
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    Hello all,

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ruckus View Post
    I think this would be highly unlikely in Mtl. You might have issues at a small bnb, but even then they might just ask you to leave. The hotels definitely know what you're up to, and unless you're giving the girl a golden shower in the middle of the bed , i guarantee they dont care
    I'm not saying I've covered every bit of news possible on this but in 14 years I've never heard of a hotel employee getting involved in any way to report on anyone paying for sex if they could spot the girls visiting room, and I'm sure they have noticed this hundreds of times. It seems obvious the maids must have noticed and I would think the hotel has instructed them not to create a possibly embarrassing situation with all the legal and publicity complications, never mind what making a mistake could cost the hotel in bad publicity and lawsuit $$$. Even at a small chic little place like the Chateau l'Argoat on Sherbooke with some of the doors of it's few rooms mostly visible from the office the desk clerk didn't react when a gorgeous 30ish escort arrived in very tight leopard stretch pants and could not have avoided walking right by the desk considering how close my room was. At the time I was pretty embarrassed since I was then very new to this business. Still I laughed right along with the embarrassment and had a great time. The hotel clerk who couldn't have missed the lady and had to know every client since there were only 26 rooms did nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by scofflaw View Post
    and speaking of the hotel...

    When you have a SP coming to your hotel room, in a large hotel, do you just have her show herself up to your room, or do you meet her in the lobby? (obviously, if there's a keycard requirement in the elevator it's the latter)

    If she just comes up, then management won't even know who she's coming to see. But if they stop her and ask, and she tells them she's going up to my room, then she's made it quite clear who she's there to see and drawn extra attention to the situation...
    Keycards can be an issue. In those cases, which have been few for me, I make arrangements for the lady to notify me, then I give her an identification cue and without actually speaking to each other meet in the elevator. Still 98% of the time the ladies will come up to the room on her own. You'll notice many many reviews start with..."and then there was that exciting knock knock on the door". Of course hotels have cameras and it that makes more cautious clients uncomfortable about meeting outside the room, but I have enjoyed meeting some ladies I repeat with downstairs to enjoy that that sweet tingle that adding a little more openness brings.

    People should be sensibly cautious about meeting ladies at the hotel, still, unless you are a local who needs to be careful about being noticed with the ladies many clients go out and have a very relaxed time going to dinner or whatever with the ladies. Just be sensible about it.

    Have fun,

    Merlot

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