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Thread: LGBT's USA Victory!

  1. #1
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    LGBT's USA Victory!

    Slowly but surely... equality


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...8e5_story.html


    Supreme Court rules gay couples nationwide have a right to marry

    The Supreme Court on Friday delivered a historic victory for gay rights, ruling 5 to 4 that the Constitution requires that same-sex couples be allowed to marry no matter where they live and that states may no longer reserve the right only for heterosexual couples. [...]



    Live and let live

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    Traveling abroad (including Canada), I'm often ashamed to admit I'm from the U.S. (although I am from the best and hippest state we've got... ). But this week makes me very proud: healthcare upheld, gay marriage validated, another form of housing discrimination repudiated... In fact, this whole SCOTUS term has been almost entirely a win for progressive values. The confederate flag comes down, the rainbow flag goes up. Right on.
    ------------------
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    Hello all,

    Quote Originally Posted by Clara Versailles View Post
    [B][SIZE=4]Slowly but surely... equality
    Yes, most important for the Gay Rights people it was pointed out that specifically no state may create laws to block gay marriage. It's going to be very interesting to see the political effect of this very marginal decision on state and national politics. I predict it will alter the political discussion priorities in the U.S. and polarize side even more...as if we weren't already up to our necks with political partisanship. But I am very happy legal persecution has now been ended.



    Merlot

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    Now that the great American alliance of progressives, feminists, gay activists and socialists has realized one of its fondest dreams, the legalization of gay marriage, it can turn its full attention to campaigning for one of its other favorite causes, i.e., the complete abolition of the institution of heterosexual prostitution (homosexual prostitution is probably OK though) .

    They plan to accomplish this goal by arresting, trying and convicting the evil, predatory male clients of female prostitutes. They will also rescue, rehabilitate and reeducate the poor, weak and innocent female victims of men (prostitutes), who are incapable of making their own decisions about how to control their own bodies and earn a living.

    It will be a long and difficult fight, just like the fight to legalize gay marriage. But don't underestimate the power of the Forces of Good. If they can get gay marriage legalized, they can abolish the evil institution of prostitution once and for all!

    Clara, you're deluding yourself if you think that gays and their supporters will fight for your (and our) rights with the same conviction that they have fought for their rights. It's fine with me that gays got the right to marry, but I'm not celebrating.

    Liberty and equality for all! (Except, of course, for prostitutes and their clients.)

    Nevertheless, there is at least one prominent gay person who does support the legalization or decriminalization of prostitution. He is Andrew Sullivan, a well-known gay writer and editor whose politics are a mix of conservatism and libertarianism (which places him well outside of mainstream gay political beliefs). Here's Sullivan, taking a clear stance in favor of prostitution:

    Ask Me Anything: Should Prostitution Be Legal?

    Strasser: By the way, the murder of the couriers, what has been done?
    Renault: Realizing the importance of the case, my men are rounding up twice the usual number of suspects.
    Heinze: We already know who the murderer is.
    Strasser: Good. Is he in custody?
    Renault: Oh, there's no hurry. Tonight he'll be at Rick's. Everybody comes to Rick's.

  5. #5
    I think CaptRenault is correct. If there is any measurable effect of this decision on future prostitution, it will be negative. The social conservatives in the US will dig in during the never ending game of a Tug of War. I believe in his famous bitter dissent in the Sodomy case (I believe it was The Lawrence case), the lovable Scalia mentioned all the things that might need to be decriminalized if sodomy were legal, and that potentially included gay rights and prostitution. Sodomy by the way in the States encompasses a lot more than male on male anal sex, a lot of us do a lot of sodomy every time we book a session, according to the southern States. Now that prohibiting Gay Marriage (and Prohibiting Sodomy) have fallen, the social conservatives will fight harder against the other things they hate. And don't expect help from the Gays and Lesbians any more. They are normal now - marriage licenses and white picket fences. They used to love to fight for deviancy when they were deviant. Everything I understand about economics would tell me if I am a single, straight guy who routinely sees sex workers, this decision is negative. I realize that is not the correct way to analyze it. Hell, more cotton can be picked at lower prices if there are slaves (and I do not believe in slavery). So I am happy for the gays who want to get married, while recognizing it has a very, very small negative effect on the subject we most often discuss here. Keep in mind that Canada legalized gay marriage before enacting c-36.

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    I am not thrilled about this decision, only because I believe that the decision had nothing to do with the rights of gays and lesbians, but rather gays and lesbians will force their will upon religious institution who will refuse to serve them. It is going to set up the First Amendment (real law) of freedom of religion against this new unwritten (in the US Constitution) right.

    I believe that the Common Law partner laws for gays and lesbians was the best compromise. It gave same sex partners the same rights without religious involvement. This stupid ruling is going to cause lots of law suits against religious institutions who will refuse to marry gays and lesbians. The Supreme Court has opened a scary door.

    In most every state that has voted in election polls including California have voted against gay marriage. The original intent of the US Constitution was for states to make laws governing within their borders and for limited powers by the Federal Government to govern affairs such as interstate commerce and defense of the entire nation and that's it. This decision has buried state's rights.

    For your information, there are no Federal laws against prostitution except for the Mann Act which prohibits the transport of a prostitute across state lines. The only laws prohibiting prostitution has been state laws, and those laws did not come into being until the Woman's suffrage movement in the 1910s.
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

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    I find the sudden swerve of the effect of this ruling on prostitution interesting. I'm curious if the commenters live in the U.S. I do, and frankly legalizing prostituion nationwide isn't something that, as far as I'm aware of, has any traction whatsoever. Legalizing marijuana is the next major social change in the U.S. Prostituion is already illegal in most of the U.S., and is far from becoming legal. On the other hand, I am also unaware of any huge outcry to "completely abolish" it, probably because most people realize "completely abolishing" anything beyond making it illegal is impossible.

    I can't see this ruling having any impact on that whatsoever. But I'd be curious if others are aware of discussions in various states, etc., that I'm not.
    ------------------
    "I got girls, girls on my mind. I think about them mostly all the time" - David Byrne

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    Quote Originally Posted by yikezz View Post
    I find the sudden swerve of the effect of this ruling on prostitution interesting. I'm curious if the commenters live in the U.S. I do, and frankly legalizing prostituion nationwide isn't something that, as far as I'm aware of, has any traction whatsoever. Legalizing marijuana is the next major social change in the U.S. Prostituion is already illegal in most of the U.S., and is far from becoming legal. On the other hand, I am also unaware of any huge outcry to "completely abolish" it, probably because most people realize "completely abolishing" anything beyond making it illegal is impossible.

    I can't see this ruling having any impact on that whatsoever. But I'd be curious if others are aware of discussions in various states, etc., that I'm not.
    It is still illegal Federally to smoke or distribute marijuana, which how can that be if you don't transport it across State lines? But in Colorado and California or Washington it is legal to smoke according to State laws.

    But prostitution is illegal in every State except Nevada where certain Counties have the right to legalize and regulate it. Prostitution is legislated by States, not the Federal law. So if any movement to legalize prostitution, it would have to be done in the states. Personally, I think most people don't want prostitution in their communities, but I think most people would not be opposed to prostitution being zoned. But it would have to start in states, unless some monger can go before the Supreme Court and argue that their Constitutional rights to getting fucked is being abridged. I think they would find 5 Justices that may agree.
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamer41 View Post
    I believe that the decision had nothing to do with the rights of gays and lesbians, but rather gays and lesbians will force their will upon religious institution who will refuse to serve them.
    This is incorrect, actually. Religious institutions in the U.S. are exceedingly well protected, and are currently quite free to refuse to hire gay clergy, perform gay weddings, etc. etc. None of that will change. However, it is likely that businesses that serve the public, and government or state agencies that are involved with issuing (civil) marriage licenses, etc., will probably not be able to discriminate according to religious belief, although there will be plenty of legal challenges on this matter to come. But religious institutions will remain able to adhere to their tenets even after today's ruling.

    This ruling is, indeed, about the rights of gays to marry, adopt children, and live committed (or not) lives together, as well as the legal benefits that are conferred upon spouses that are not always conferred the same way on alternatives like "partners" in civil unions.
    ------------------
    "I got girls, girls on my mind. I think about them mostly all the time" - David Byrne

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    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamer41 View Post
    It is still illegal Federally to smoke or distribute marijuana, which how can that be if you don't transport it across State lines?
    Herb is an interesting case in the U.S. Federal law trumps state law, and the Feds could decide, at any point, to bust anyone they wanted to, even in states where it is "legal" according to state law. However, the Feds have decided (I think it may have been through executive order, but I'm not positive about that), not to interfere in those states at this point. However, if the U.S. elected a conservative president and gave control of Congress entirely over to conservatives, it's not unthinkable that that could change. But society as a whole is definitely moving in a particular direction on this issue (and other social issues, such as gay marriage), so I do think it's a matter of when, not if, marijuana is legalized.
    ------------------
    "I got girls, girls on my mind. I think about them mostly all the time" - David Byrne

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    Quote Originally Posted by yikezz View Post
    This is incorrect, actually. Religious institutions in the U.S. are exceedingly well protected, and are currently quite free to refuse to hire gay clergy, perform gay weddings, etc. etc. None of that will change. However, it is likely that businesses that serve the public, and government or state agencies that are involved with issuing (civil) marriage licenses, etc., will probably not be able to discriminate according to religious belief, although there will be plenty of legal challenges on this matter to come. But religious institutions will remain able to adhere to their tenets even after today's ruling.

    This ruling is, indeed, about the rights of gays to marry, adopt children, and live committed (or not) lives together, as well as the legal benefits that are conferred upon spouses that are not always conferred the same way on alternatives like "partners" in civil unions.
    Well, before this decision, the Gay Marriages were in limbo. We don't know if gay couples will bring suit to churches, synagogues and mosques (yikes, the gays will get beheaded) for not marrying them. It's all been moot until this decision.

    As for Civil Unions, it depends on how the states wrote the Civil Union laws. Gays have adopted. I disagree with gay adoption because having 2 adopted parents of the same sex, especially if you are the same sex as them, has to have some influence on the child. And I would not trust gays to not try to formulate their adopted children to be gay. I personally think some individuals are homosexual by genetics and others psychologically because they are confused with their sexuality. Science has not determined the cause of homosexuality yet, definitively.
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by yikezz View Post
    Herb is an interesting case in the U.S. Federal law trumps state law, and the Feds could decide, at any point, to bust anyone they wanted to, even in states where it is "legal" according to state law. However, the Feds have decided (I think it may have been through executive order, but I'm not positive about that), not to interfere in those states at this point. However, if the U.S. elected a conservative president and gave control of Congress entirely over to conservatives, it's not unthinkable that that could change. But society as a whole is definitely moving in a particular direction on this issue (and other social issues, such as gay marriage), so I do think it's a matter of when, not if, marijuana is legalized.
    Give me a break. True Conservatives would obey the state laws. You have no understanding of the concept of Federalism, which is actuality those who believe in states' rights over the Federal Government. A truly Conservative President would yield power to the states in the case of marijuana laws, because the states have the right to rule on commerce inside their borders. Conservatives believe state rights trump Federal law except if a state were to make Slavery legal again, which they can't because of the 14th Amendment.

    http://www.ushistory.org/gov/3a.asp
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

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    Well, before this decision, the Gay Marriages were in limbo. We don't know if gay couples will bring suit to churches, synagogues and mosques (yikes, the gays will get beheaded) for not marrying them. It's all been moot until this decision.
    Before this decision, most of the circuit court decisions had ruled in favor of gay marriage, except for one, which set up the case to appear before the SCOTUS. So yes, there was a limbo of sorts, but it was pretty lopsided legally in recent years.

    As for gays suing religious institutions, sure, that could happen. Anyone can sue anyone in the U.S., just about. But again, protections for religious institutions are very very strong in the U.S., and the U.S. remains a very religious country in general. I doubt such suits would gain much traction in terms of forcing churches, etc., to do things against their religious tenets. And, as it is, there are any number of religious denominations in the U.S. that are perfectly comfortable accepting gays, including married gays, into their midst. In a former life I was a classical organist, and I remember playing organ at a Presbyterian lesbian wedding as far back as 1995. The variety of religious beliefs in the U.S. is quite safe.
    ------------------
    "I got girls, girls on my mind. I think about them mostly all the time" - David Byrne

  14. #14
    http://www.vox.com/2015/6/28/8857415...gay-pride-flag

    This story makes me happy. As I said previously, I have no particular like or dislike for gays and lesbians, but I do like them much better when they are deviants since their very existence pisses off the social conservatives who are also opposed to porn and sex work. As I have said even more often, I fucking hate the fucking media in the U.S.A. (and this idiotic media conglomerate also covers Canada).

    The best thing that has come out of this legalization of gay marriage thing is that there is at least one remaining deviant gay who decided to march in the marriage celebration parade (remember when there used to be drag queens in the gay parades?) with a black and white parody flag featuring butt plugs and dildos.

    The geniuses at CNN thought this was an ISIS flag and actually began consulting their Terrorism Expert Talking Head about an ISIS and LGBT connection, and then had to decide how to handle the concept of butt plugs and dildos on the air. I have not enjoyed a story as much as this one since that San Francisco local news anchor got tricked into saying the Asian pilots manning the crashed plane were We Tu Lo, Sum Ting Wong, Ho Lee Fuk, and Bang Ding Ow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yikezz View Post
    Traveling abroad (including Canada), I'm often ashamed to admit I'm from the U.S. (although I am from the best and hippest state we've got... )
    Off topic, but this statement annoys me to no end. Seriously? Then you should renounce your US citizenship and go somewhere else. You should never conflate America the "institution" and culture, from America its dumbass populace (who regularly go brain-dead every few years when it comes to national elections. How else do you explain gifting the presidency to an un-tested, idealistic, pie-in-the-sky, can't-get-real-shit-done Obama, and before him a rash, entitled, trust-fund-baby W??)

    I travel abroad regularly, and I am proud to carry an American passport, and I have zero shame in declaring myself American. No country in the world provides a similar abundance of opportunity for those who are willing to put in the hard work and who have the intelligence to take advantage of said opportunities.

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