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Thread: Amnesty International votes for decriminalisation

  1. #1

    Amnesty International votes for decriminalisation

    AI has voted in favor of decriminalisation today. It's a great victory for sex workers rights


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wom...ire-trade.html

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    a nice victory over the sick megalomaniacs!

  3. #3
    I wonder what the angle is for "older" Hollywood women to come out against this. Enhanced their popularity amongst conservative women and make it more likely to get this audience to view their movies?

    Ultimately, decriminalization just does not benefit enough people for it to ever happen in the US, and I think the same is true for Canada. The Right loves a law and order society and the prison-industrial complex, and more importantly the non-incarceration fines, that it spawns. The Left loves to believe there are lots of victims to be saved - with the corresponding government grants for studies and transitioning - and if this ghastly activity is ever legally permitted if must be very closely regulated and monitored by the State so as to greatly increase the cost and reduce the fun.

    Fortunately, most of us have been able to find a playing field ignored by the Right and the Left. But if us nice to hear from a group with some sense like Amnesty International, even though all lawmakers will ignore them.

    I can usually figure out the angles, but the opposition by older Hollywood women is confusing. Anyone care to explain it to me.

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    Hello all,

    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    I wonder what the angle is for "older" Hollywood women to come out against this. Enhanced their popularity amongst conservative women and make it more likely to get this audience to view their movies?
    Just a bit cynical isn't it.

    On a sex board where...ummmmmmmm...a lot of guys are so focused on having fantasy sex with as much ease as possible it's not hard to see why some need to knock down those who might be opposed to sex for money. Go figure. Still, why so blatantly cynical. In relationships and marriage women want to be equals, many men still want to dominate. Many women reject domination by men in any relationship and so it's logical there is going to be a segment that worries about that element in women being paid for sex, which they would consider demeaning, even threatening...and they don't have to be feminists either.

    I know there are hobbyists here who don't want anything to interfere with BOINKING fantasy ladies, but be real. There are very rational basic concerns about risks in the industry legal or illegal. Stick to the far better argument that legality offers a much greater opportunity for protection.

    Cheers,

    Merlot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlot View Post
    On a sex board where...ummmmmmmm...a lot of guys are so focused on having fantasy sex with as much ease as possible it's not hard to see why some need to knock down those who might be opposed to sex for money. Go figure.
    It's not about them simply being opposed to sex for money, it's about their supporting the use of violence to stop it. Sure there are concerns with legality but the use of aggression to prevent people from making love is a far greater concern. Prohibition laws themselves are less moral than whatever they're attempting to prohibit when all involved parties are voluntary. It has nothing to do with protecting some kind of alleged inequality between men & women. It's a basic freedom that unfortunately has little benefit to undesirable women and their sympathizers... c'est la vie

  6. #6
    Wealth and fame results in arrogance and protectionism. Both at a personal level and a country level. It is not surprising that several of the wealthiest nations, Norway, Sweden and the USA, are the biggest exporters of sex work abolition. Note that Canada joined in only after it accumulated oil wealth.

    These actresses have a lot of wealth and enjoy having people respond favorably to their opinions. The media ignores the fact that the unknown workers at Amnesty studying these issues are better informed than these actresses. And their agents and publicists try to find issues that will resonate with their fan base. Would you not be pissed if you were an economist at Amnesty International who worked hard on this issue and the media coverage goes to Streep and Winslow?

    It is not really a surprise that Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears do not take a position against the decriminalization of prostitution. No attraction to the issue for their fan base and no reason to present themselves as prudish. To me, it is all bullshit and I tire of the media's fascination with movie stars. Streep and Winslow do not face the same economic issues as the college students, single moms, and women who work at low-wage jobs outside of the sex work industry - in other words the women who are the sex workers that we see here on merb.

    Plus the rich have incentive to keep the poor down. A top escort can earn a lot of money, and women who do not approve of sex work, and do not want to compete against it, are big-time abolitionists. They may have one point. If sex work is fully decriminalized and accepted, it will be hard to convince a hot 18 year old that she may not always be hot and will not always be able to earn a fortune through fucking (in other words she must plan for a career after sex work). Now if Meryl Steep wants to do a public service and show girls that a previously hot chick will not always stay that way, she would be a great role model. How is that for rude, Merlot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    I wonder what the angle is for "older" Hollywood women to come out against this. Enhanced their popularity amongst conservative women and make it more likely to get this audience to view their movies?
    There are many reasons I think.

    A lot of aging sexy actress or model now speak against the sexualization of the media and not just sex work. Once they get too old to use their sex appeal as a way to get fame and money, they often want to prevent younger competitors from beating them in the same way.

    I think a lot of them are also just stupid and not well informed. If they can just look good and wise and philantropic by speaking against ''human trafficking'' they will do it. Looking good and speaking bullshit is literally how they make a living.

    About Canada and the prostitution law, I would say that decrim would have no real impact on actual convictions and the prison industry. In Canada, the police almost only enforce the law in situations that would also be illegal even if it was decriminalized (underage girls, illegal immigrants, gang activity, public nuisance...) In our case, the goal of the law is just to send a message on the moral stance of the government, but like marijuana, the majority of the population leans toward decriminalization for consenting adults. The only financial gain they make with this law is that their voting base will open their checkbook during fundraising.
    “Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love.”

  8. #8
    Philosophical question. Would everyone really be happier if this happened? Really?

    True decriminalization. Not limited legalization with regulations like in rural Nevada. That is the ultimate shakedown.

    But true Fuck It decriminalization.

    Right now most of us who post here have it pretty good, and the state of the industry, at least from the customer's perspective, is pretty damn good in North America in comparison to past years. Sex workers can contribute as to how things are for them.

    Yes, prices are a bit higher now than in the immediate past, but services are very good, and most of us can afford some fun. Not as much as most of us would like, but the food at your favorite restaurant would not taste as good if you ate there literally all of the time. Sure it is theoretically illegal but virtually all of the law enforcement is directed at specific targets - Backpage ads, street walkers, and multi-state traveling agencies in the U.S., and Asian massage places and street walkers in Canada. Play the game right and spend the necessary funds and all is well.

    Now what would happen if every chick could sell tail and society embraced anti-bullying and no one was mean to sex workers (or their customers). I do not know what would happen, which is why I am asking. A world in which, from age 18 on, anyone could sell sex to anyone else, and anyone could purchase it from anyone. I suspect that the world would be a far different place and I am not at all certain that any of us middle-class / upper class johns would be any happier. I am not certain that the current group of sex workers working at agencies or as independents would be happier or more prosperous.

    As we all learned from Ms. Bedford, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

    Like that Jim Carrey movie in which he is made God, every law in the USA and Canada has been highlighted on the screen and you can push the Delete button and make them be permanently deleted and they can never come back. Would you hit Delete?

  9. #9
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    Patron, you make some very good points about whether the industry would be better off or not. You might be right about "careful what you wish for."

    As for what the industry would look like if there were decriminalization in the U.S. or Canada, well, I hope it would look like Germany, Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia, Spain or Colombia. I hope it would mean that brothels would be legal, as in those countries. I think for many working girls (and clients), brothels are the safest and best places for escorts and clients to do business (of course, escorts should be free to conduct business in their homes or in a hotel too...but not on the street).

    So yes I am in favor of decriminalization but I don't think we will see it anytime soon in the U.S. or Canada. On the other hand, I didn't think I would ever see a U.S. state legalize marijuana. BTW, weed is not one of my vices. I have tried it and I tried to inhale but I couldn't.
    Strasser: By the way, the murder of the couriers, what has been done?
    Renault: Realizing the importance of the case, my men are rounding up twice the usual number of suspects.
    Heinze: We already know who the murderer is.
    Strasser: Good. Is he in custody?
    Renault: Oh, there's no hurry. Tonight he'll be at Rick's. Everybody comes to Rick's.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post

    Now what would happen if every chick could sell tail and society embraced anti-bullying and no one was mean to sex workers (or their customers). I do not know what would happen, which is why I am asking.
    Nothing. Things would stay pretty much the same, as suggested in your previous paragraph, with less than 1% of people ready to sell sex and less than than 1% ready to buy it. We get sex for free easily. Sex for money is a shrinking business, certainly not because of repression nor social pressure, but beacause it's more easily available for free.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu View Post
    Nothing. Things would stay pretty much the same, as suggested in your previous paragraph, with less than 1% of people ready to sell sex and less than than 1% ready to buy it. We get sex for free easily. Sex for money is a shrinking business, certainly not because of repression nor social pressure, but beacause it's more easily available for free.
    Really? I got older, but my Dick didn't. Sounds like country music song. The free ones from hot girls goes down as guys age.

    With the aging population, the demand for sex with young women by aging Baby Boomers will constantly increase. And we are knowledgable, sophisticated johns. When things are fully decriminalized, I think that 1 percent number will go way up on both the demand and supply side.

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    Gentlemen,

    Quote Originally Posted by PopeDover View Post
    It's not about them simply being opposed to sex for money, it's about their supporting the use of violence to stop it ...undesirable women and their sympathizers... c'est la vie
    Who is "them"??? The way this quote reads it looks like you are saying all opposition is violent, a large segment of who women who don't support decriminalization or legalization won't because they can't make anything off of it, while others are saying aging has changed their support of using sex appeal to get ahead. So in sum, according to you guys, no one against this simply has rational concerns or can behave positively without resorting to violence. If that's what you guys mean it sounds like gross stereotyping.

    To say or imply the opposition has no rational principles is to ignore the basic fact that a lot of people just don't think sex for money is right. Implying they are violent nuts or don't agree because they cannot benefit is little more than a self-serving distortion and poor over-generalization. .

    Cheers,

    Merlot

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    Gugu, according to the same logic restaurants should have no business. You can get sex for free, but in many respect things are more enjoyable when you pay for them. You save time and effort to get exactly what you want.

    There is said to be 200 MP in Montreal supposing they have 2 women on average each day, that's about 400 workers just in MP. Even if they do just 2 or 3 customers each, that's 1000 every day, or a third of a million tricks every year. Some clients are regulars but most go every once in a while. If you now consider all the escorts and strip clubs and sugar babies and paid mistresses, the % of men who buy sex occasionnally is certainly much higher than 1%. I will agree that today's sexual freedom favors more informal sex transactions and the distinction between ''real'' and commercial sex is getting more blurry.

    I also agree decrim would probably have no effect on numbers. It didn't in New Zealand as far as I know. Prohibition of any kind never stopped most people. Some people are scared of the law, others are excited because it's illegal. In the end pretty much everyone who wants to exchange sex for money does it in a form that is available to them.
    “Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlot View Post
    So in sum, according to you guys, no one against this simply has rational concerns or can behave positively without resorting to violence. If that's what you guys mean it sounds like gross stereotyping.
    They do not have ''rational'' concerns, because their arguments are dishonest. If you read their letter it's obvious they didn't read the AI proposal or are being very dishonest in their interpretations of the facts

    Being in favor of a criminal law is being in favored of repression by the police; therefore people who support criminalization support violence against sex workers. They may not be aware that they are doing that, but that doesn't make it any better. If they're going to protest a proposition, the least they could do is understand the subject.
    “Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love.”

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    Really? I got older, but my Dick didn't. Sounds like country music song. The free ones from hot girls goes down as guys age.

    With the aging population, the demand for sex with young women by aging Baby Boomers will constantly increase. And we are knowledgable, sophisticated johns. When things are fully decriminalized, I think that 1 percent number will go way up on both the demand and supply side.
    I agree, gugu talks statistics, you talk reality!
    I saw it tonight on Radio Canada news. They had Miville Deschenes on interview. So much non sense coming out of her mouth. Like saying that 95% of escorts have pimps and have to be protected! Also it is very disturbing to see that official medias always show pictures of street prostitution everytime they talk about the subject. These people are supposed to inform, but they obvisously desinform. They should tell the truth: most business is now done through online communications.

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