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Thread: Indonesian Couple Caned In Public

  1. #1
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    Indonesian Couple Caned In Public

    This news report contains some rather brutal photographs of an Indonesian woman being caned in public- viewer discretion is advised. Her crime: she, an unmarried woman, was seen alone with an unmarried man. He was also caned:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html

    I don't know much about Sharia law (didn't study it in law school), but it seems a bit harsh for the offense. I can see (maybe) a few lashes for adultery, but 5 lashes that sends her to a hospital for being alone with a dude? Seems excessive to me. Of course, I went to a strict Catholic School that was not above dishing out physical punishment either. I observed my classmates have their asses spanked with a wooden oar in front of the class, and that was just for misbehaving in class. I was at one time hit by one of the priests with a bamboo pole, not very hard and not to really hurt me, but more to get my attention, when I dozed off in his class.

    What do you think of these forms of public punishment? Cruel? Unusual?

  2. #2
    It always amazes me and infuriates me at the same time how unevolved some cultures still are. Also the fact that there are sometimes thousands of people there to witness it and some even participate, is down right scary.

    Caning for being in 'close proximity' of an unmarried man? Really?

    There have also been stories about:
    Stoned to death for just being Gay
    Beheadings for witchcraft (yes for witchcraft)

    And this one just boggles my mind more than anything:, just makes my blood boil
    (excerpt from an online article)

    13-year-old girl-child, was gang-raped. She went to register the crime with the courts, presumably expecting the police to find and arrest her rapists.

    This last bit came back to haunt her, her family, and anyone with a conscience! At this ‘admission of engaging in extramarital sexual intercourse’ and ‘demands to be punished’, the police officials had ‘no choice’ but to arrest her. The ‘Sharia Court’ (if you can call it a court) had heard the case and had ‘no choice’ but to sentence her to death by stoning. After all, she herself ‘freely admitted her guilt’ and ‘demanded justice to be done’!!!


    You got me all worked up on a late Tuesday evening EB.

  3. #3
    A few years back, a man in my country got decapitated and thrown into the sewers. His fault? Dating a muslim woman while being a non-muslim. The killers were relatives of the girl. My gf at the time was a muslim. You can imagine how freaked out my family was around the time.

  4. #4
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    This punishment is stupid. Christian societies learned how to depart from religion. Unfortunately, Muslims and Jews are still slaves to their old beliefs. Call me a pessimistic girl, but I don t think that this situation is going to change any time soon.

  5. #5
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    A friend of mine who lives in New York City started dating a Muslim girl. They eventually got engaged and even while they were engaged, she denied him vaginal intercourse, but allowed anal intercourse. Her reasoning/rationale in allowing premarital anal intercourse was that as long as the vagina wasn't touched, her virginity was preserved for marriage. We all thought this was funny and wondered where in Muslim law it says premarital anal sex is okay and preserves virginity. Does anyone know?

    My friend did marry that girl and they are still married, although she kicked him out for about a month when she found evidence of him cheating Tiger Woods's wife-style, by peeking at his cellphone. Eventually they made up and are now back together.

  6. #6
    Did your friend convert to islam to marry his gf? I was constantly reminded that we could never have a serious relationship(Engagement, marriage) unless I convert.

  7. #7
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    No- he didn't convert. He is a Christian guy with roots in the US Deep South. Keep in mind this is a Russian Muslim girl from Brooklyn that he met in NYC. My friend is a NYC hedge fund guy and the girl, when he met her, was an off the boat Russian girl. Off the boat Russian girls coming to NYC and finding themselves in a relationship with a hedge fund guy normally don't make such demands. If she had made the religious conversion demand, he would have found a way to negotiate it. For all I know, he negotiated the anal sex, but he claims she consented to it and considered it an act that keeps her virginity intact. This was the first time I ever heard such reasoning.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by johnybird View Post
    It always amazes me and infuriates me at the same time how unevolved some cultures still are. Also the fact that there are sometimes thousands of people there to witness it and some even participate, is down right scary.

    Caning for being in 'close proximity' of an unmarried man? Really?

    There have also been stories about:
    Stoned to death for just being Gay
    [/I]

    .


    These are not stories. I have seen men thrown off of buildings for being gay on video. The girl is lucky she wasn't stoned to death. This is the religion of peace that the left marvels at and celebrates while turning a hostile eye toward Christianity (Note# I find it ironic that a guy is photographed with the battle flag of Lee's army of Northern Virginia on his T-shirt and kills 7 people and the flag is removed from all public buildings and shunned. Now they are removing monuments to dead Confederate Generals in public places like New Orleans. Meanwhile, we have murder after murder in the name of Islam - the so-called peaceful religion - and the left reminds us that not all Muslims are terrorists and blame global warming.)

    I have not been to church in years and I don't really know what I believe in. I am a skeptic. It's all a crock! However, I prefer religions whos followers are not constantly trying to kill me in the name of that religion. I am hoping that one day the followers of Islam will become like the Catholics I knew growing up. They went to church for 1 hour on Sunday and that was it. Many skipped Church and grabbed a church bulleton for their parents and went out to breakfast. Can Islam become more like this? I believe that the breakfast part could be tough because so many dishes involve pork but maybe they can all do lunch?

    Sara - I believe the majority of Jews in Isreal are secular. I'm sure this is true in the US as well.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver View Post
    This news report contains some rather brutal photographs of an Indonesian woman being caned in public- viewer discretion is advised. Her crime: she, an unmarried woman, was seen alone with an unmarried man. He was also caned:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html

    I don't know much about Sharia law (didn't study it in law school), but it seems a bit harsh for the offense. I can see (maybe) a few lashes for adultery, but 5 lashes that sends her to a hospital for being alone with a dude? Seems excessive to me. Of course, I went to a strict Catholic School that was not above dishing out physical punishment either. I observed my classmates have their asses spanked with a wooden oar in front of the class, and that was just for misbehaving in class. I was at one time hit by one of the priests with a bamboo pole, not very hard and not to really hurt me, but more to get my attention, when I dozed off in his class.

    What do you think of these forms of public punishment? Cruel? Unusual?
    I have lived in many countries and regions that claim to practice sharia law. Interpretation of this form of jurisprudence differs from one country to another. Usually 4 witnesses are required to have seen intercourse between the two parties(usually impossible to establish). However, people not familiar with this requirement are sometimes tricked into a confession, which can supersede the 4 witness requirement. Forensic data of adultery cannot be used to convict someone, but can theoretically be used to dispute the witnesses (and have them caned instead). Being alone in a room or seen close together is not enough. But I have never lived in Indonesia so I cannot speak as to why they were convicted here.

    The common thread is that these punishments all originated in the desert. Resources and water were scarce, so every form of punishment is either corporal or capital. The notion of 'jail time' does not exist because scarce resources could not be used to house and feed inmates. I would also point out that what Sharia means and whether its relevant to our age is a not something there is universal agreement on among muslims.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Cleavage View Post
    This punishment is stupid. Christian societies learned how to depart from religion. Unfortunately, Muslims and Jews are still slaves to their old beliefs. Call me a pessimistic girl, but I don t think that this situation is going to change any time soon.
    Sara, Israel is the only country in the Middle East in which there is a separation of Church/Mosque/Temple and state. As hungry101 said most of the Jews in Israel are secular but Jews, Muslims and Christians all practice their religions freely and without interference from the State. There is, to be sure, a small crackpot Orthodox Jewish right in Israel, but they are primarily religious extremists and do not dole out these kinds of punishments. However there are some elements of Talmudic law that are sexist/archaic and seem unreasonable but not usually in regards to punishment.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rollingstone View Post

    The common thread is that these punishments all originated in the desert. Resources and water were scarce, so every form of punishment is either corporal or capital. The notion of 'jail time' does not exist because scarce resources could not be used to house and feed inmates. I would also point out that what Sharia means and whether its relevant to our age is a not something there is universal agreement on among muslims.
    Interesting and it helps make my point. The religion needs a reformation. They are no longer nomadic tribes wandering through the desert. If they could only be more like modern day Catholics who skip mass but sneak in to grab a church bulleton as proof that they were there to placater their parents. However, that would require 35 bulletons a week instead of 1.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver View Post
    Israel is the only country in the Middle East in which there is a separation of Church/Mosque/Temple and state.
    and yet if you're Jewish and oppose the policies of the political state...
    http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news...opposed-israel

    you're somehow labeled as an antisemetic self-hating Jew
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hating_Jew


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver View Post
    No- he didn't convert. He is a Christian guy with roots in the US Deep South. Keep in mind this is a Russian Muslim girl from Brooklyn that he met in NYC. My friend is a NYC hedge fund guy and the girl, when he met her, was an off the boat Russian girl. Off the boat Russian girls coming to NYC and finding themselves in a relationship with a hedge fund guy normally don't make such demands. If she had made the religious conversion demand, he would have found a way to negotiate it. For all I know, he negotiated the anal sex, but he claims she consented to it and considered it an act that keeps her virginity intact. This was the first time I ever heard such reasoning.
    Hymen is kind of a big deal and a marker of a woman's chastity in honor based patriarchal societies..islam being one. From what I know, at least among the muslims in my country, it is expected of the the bride to bleed (hymen breaking) while indulging in intercourse with her husband for the first time after marriage. I have seen a few cases where the husband had filed for a divorce just a matter of days following the wedding - I presume it was the reason I mentioned. However, most of these cases happen in the more religiously attuned and uneducated portions of their society. Anyone who has gone to school will know that hymen can break for a multitude of reasons other than intercourse.

    Regarding anal intercourse, I quite not sure what their religion has to say, but given how heavily their religious text has borrowed from the talmud and the bible, we can expect that anal sex is forbidden just like in judeo christian tradition.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver View Post
    No- he didn't convert. He is a Christian guy with roots in the US Deep South. Keep in mind this is a Russian Muslim girl from Brooklyn that he met in NYC. My friend is a NYC hedge fund guy and the girl, when he met her, was an off the boat Russian girl. Off the boat Russian girls coming to NYC and finding themselves in a relationship with a hedge fund guy normally don't make such demands. If she had made the religious conversion demand, he would have found a way to negotiate it. For all I know, he negotiated the anal sex, but he claims she consented to it and considered it an act that keeps her virginity intact. This was the first time I ever heard such reasoning.
    Like any other religion there are people who more religious or more observant than others. You can go to Dubai and find tonnes of muslim women having sex with non-muslims (both normal and anal). In Marrakech I had to make sure I did not make any noise going up to her appartment so I dont alert her neighbors. In Dubai that's not an issue and no one cared I was bringing a woman back to my place. Different countries have different sensibilities and what passes for acceptable behavior. Cases like this Indonesian thing get coverage because of the shock factor.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hungry101 View Post
    Interesting and it helps make my point. The religion needs a reformation. They are no longer nomadic tribes wandering through the desert. If they could only be more like modern day Catholics who skip mass but sneak in to grab a church bulleton as proof that they were there to placater their parents. However, that would require 35 bulletons a week instead of 1.
    You are generalizing a lot here. Like any religion you have the pious and true believers, the fanatics and fundamentalists, and those who dont observe any of the practices and pay only lip service. Lots of people skip prayers, drink , fuck...etc...Catholics do not have a monopoly on that.

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