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Thread: legal or not?

  1. #1

    legal or not?

    Is it legal to contact a SP and ask what are her rates via an online ad (like back page, annonce123)? Not setting a date, not agreeing/disagreeing for services, but asking what are the rates for 1 night?

  2. #2
    If you are asking the donation for her companionship, yes no problem

  3. #3
    Adorable libertine
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    Allo Antoine2222,

    It legal, but if we're talking about indies with a website, some ladies requirement is that you have read their website before contacting themselves.......

    So, by asking what's the donation, you just proved to the lady you contacted that you did not read, at least, one important part of her website.

    It could be possible then, depending of the lady, that she will give you a link to the page related OR that she will be asking you to visit her website OR that she will give any answer at all.

  4. #4
    Ok, just not sure with that new law... Says it legal for SP to sell services BUT It says it's an offence to communicate with someone for obtaining services... Kind of confusing :$

  5. #5
    Adorable libertine
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    What's illegal is to hire someone for particular sexual services.

    Meeting an escort is legal.

    So YES, if you're asking/enquiring about "particular services", by email or by SMS or by phone: Do you do XYZ? And do you do ZYX before ever meeting once or simply
    before an encounter, THAT'S ILLEGAL.

  6. #6
    Do you know if there were arrests for people contacting SP online (email)? From the news I read it's almost only street soliciting and minors.

  7. #7
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    J'en n'ai aucune idée, I don't have any idea.

    I know there is a thread about the new law and the enforcement of it thru the country on Merb.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by antoine2222 View Post
    Do you know if there were arrests for people contacting SP online (email)? From the news I read it's almost only street soliciting and minors.
    Not sure if you quite understand how this works.

    It is not illegal in any civilized country, even the US, to purchase someone's time and companionship. So communicating with an escort and buying an hour of her time is not illegal.

    Soliciting sex for money is illegal. In the U.S., it is illegal to solicit sex for money and illegal to offer sex for money. In Canada it is only illegal to solicit sex for money. So any email or verbal communication with an escort should not mention any sex act. It is of course okay to mention money, since you are buying a block of time.

    You are not guaranteed that any sex will occur during the time you purchase. If the escort you see has reviews, and those reviews reveal what sex acts she typically chooses to perform during the hour, you have a good idea as to what might happen. If you want to be extra safe, don't mention her reviews in the email or text you send to her.

    For there to be an arrest regarding an email or phone call, you would need to be communicating with a police officer. So don't communicate via email with someone off of backpage or annonce123 with no reviews, if you want to be certain that you are not communicating with the police.

    Even when you are communicating with a known, reviewed escort, just don't mention sex acts. But for there to be an arrest if you do mention sex acts, the police would have to seize her (or her agency's) emails or phone, connect you to that email address, and prove you sent the email. Same with telephone conversations, which would have to be recorded. There have been no arrests for this, because only in a world of complete paranoia, could that ever happen.

  9. #9
    Thank you for this post, very true.
    If you are worried, I would also recommend you email from a play-email address or call/text from a play-phone that doesn't link back to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    Not sure if you quite understand how this works.

    It is not illegal in any civilized country, even the US, to purchase someone's time and companionship. So communicating with an escort and buying an hour of her time is not illegal.

    Soliciting sex for money is illegal. In the U.S., it is illegal to solicit sex for money and illegal to offer sex for money. In Canada it is only illegal to solicit sex for money. So any email or verbal communication with an escort should not mention any sex act. It is of course okay to mention money, since you are buying a block of time.

    You are not guaranteed that any sex will occur during the time you purchase. If the escort you see has reviews, and those reviews reveal what sex acts she typically chooses to perform during the hour, you have a good idea as to what might happen. If you want to be extra safe, don't mention her reviews in the email or text you send to her.

    For there to be an arrest regarding an email or phone call, you would need to be communicating with a police officer. So don't communicate via email with someone off of backpage or annonce123 with no reviews, if you want to be certain that you are not communicating with the police.

    Even when you are communicating with a known, reviewed escort, just don't mention sex acts. But for there to be an arrest if you do mention sex acts, the police would have to seize her (or her agency's) emails or phone, connect you to that email address, and prove you sent the email. Same with telephone conversations, which would have to be recorded. There have been no arrests for this, because only in a world of complete paranoia, could that ever happen.

  10. #10
    Following the passage of C-36 in 2014, Section 286 of the criminal code was amended to include the following clause:

    Everyone who, in any place, obtains for consideration, or communicates with anyone for the purpose of obtaining for consideration, the sexual services of a person is guilty of... an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years
    http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a.../FullText.html

    So yes, it is technically illegal simply to communicate with someone for the the purposes of obtaining sexual services.

    But on the other hand it is fairly clear that neither the police nor the Crown in Montreal have deemed this a crime worth prosecuting.

  11. #11
    Since these questions have been raised, I'm going to follow up with a couple questions--because I don't understand the reach of "sexual services." Of course the obvious stuff is obvious ("do you do anal?") and of course LE in Montreal has better things to do than subpoena email records that might hint at such questions. But out of curiosity, what does "soliciting sexual services" mean? Would fantasy play (two adults, fully dressed, with no physical contact involved) be sexual services? Could I ask an SP, when I'm booking her time and nothing else, whether she would act like my 18-year old neighbor? (Or--since it's all an act, someone younger or less appropriate.) Or what about toys; is it legal to ask whether an SP would bring toys if there is no discussion about their use? Or light bdsm: is spanking considered a "sexual service"? I assume that there's a definition somewhere ...

    And while I'm at it, does it depend on what the definition of "is" is?

  12. #12
    Gorgeous ladies Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    Following the passage of C-36 in 2014, Section 286 of the criminal code was amended to include the following clause:
    New law same ONUS OF PROOF


    IT's not what they know that counts ,its what they can prove !




    Cheers



    Booker

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by talkinghead View Post
    Since these questions have been raised, I'm going to follow up with a couple questions--because I don't understand the reach of "sexual services." Of course the obvious stuff is obvious ("do you do anal?") and of course LE in Montreal has better things to do than subpoena email records that might hint at such questions. But out of curiosity, what does "soliciting sexual services" mean? Would fantasy play (two adults, fully dressed, with no physical contact involved) be sexual services? Could I ask an SP, when I'm booking her time and nothing else, whether she would act like my 18-year old neighbor? (Or--since it's all an act, someone younger or less appropriate.) Or what about toys; is it legal to ask whether an SP would bring toys if there is no discussion about their use? Or light bdsm: is spanking considered a "sexual service"? I assume that there's a definition somewhere ...

    And while I'm at it, does it depend on what the definition of "is" is?
    This is not an answer to your good question, but I remember a provider in the U.S. telling me something interesting. The lawyer may have been going overboard, but after telling her all the things she should not say if a potential client asked her sexually-suggestive question, the lawyer she had consulted with asked her what she would say if a caller asked her if she does Greek. She said she would tell the caller "no" (she did not offer anal to any customers, by the way). The lawyer said that was the wrong answer, because the police would say that answer implies that she offers sex other than anal sex. The correct answer if the customer had not been screened is to hang up.

    A person notices when booking an escort in the US that he can get very little information until he is screened, just a little more once he is first screened, but after seeing her the first time he can ask her anything. Of course reviews solve most if not all of these problems. But providers are rarely concerned with how explicit the emails are with existing johns. Maybe they really do delete them, or they realize that cops busting in and hauling off computers of sex workers is something people see on TV cop shows rather than what happens in real life.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by talkinghead View Post
    Since these questions have been raised, I'm going to follow up with a couple questions--because I don't understand the reach of "sexual services." Of course the obvious stuff is obvious ("do you do anal?") and of course LE in Montreal has better things to do than subpoena email records that might hint at such questions. But out of curiosity, what does "soliciting sexual services" mean? Would fantasy play (two adults, fully dressed, with no physical contact involved) be sexual services? Could I ask an SP, when I'm booking her time and nothing else, whether she would act like my 18-year old neighbor? (Or--since it's all an act, someone younger or less appropriate.) Or what about toys; is it legal to ask whether an SP would bring toys if there is no discussion about their use? Or light bdsm: is spanking considered a "sexual service"? I assume that there's a definition somewhere ...

    And while I'm at it, does it depend on what the definition of "is" is?
    "Sexual services" is not defined in the Criminal Code. I don't know if the courts have defined the term. We have a general constitutional principle that statutes must be sufficiently precise so that people know what is and is not legal. The test is not 100% precision, but rather that the language in the statute must not be so vague as to be not susceptible to reasoned legal discussion. I don't practice criminal law but I suspect that the courts would interpret "sexual services" in a way similar to how they interpreted "prostitution" under the old common bawdy house provisions - so a bikini model as "eye candy" is OK, but a lap dance with "grinding" probably over the line.

    But the police and Crown prosecutors know that the first serious C-36 case will challenge the constitutionality of the entire "Nordic" scheme, mostly under the same reasoning as Bedford. No prosecutor wants to lose this case, no provincial Crown office wants to devote the legal resources to try to argue the case, and the feds don't want the issue thrown back to Parliament as there are no votes to be won. But C-36 can still be a club over your head either to extract a plea bargain.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    the lawyer she had consulted with asked her what she would say if a caller asked her if she does Greek. She said she would tell the caller "no" (she did not offer anal to any customers, by the way). The lawyer said that was the wrong answer, because the police would say that answer implies that she offers sex other than anal sex. The correct answer if the customer had not been screened is to hang up.
    Hello Patron



    I have a question here ?Are you implying that using the escorting vocabulary for anal sex the term "GREEK" has exactly the same legal implication in Court ?




    Cheers




    Booker

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