Mirage Escort
Montreal Escorts

Money Doesn't Make People Happy

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,463
6
0
Money Doesn't Make People Happy

By Tim Harford
Forbes.com

"The hippies," claimed economist Andrew Oswald recently, "are having their quiet revenge." Oswald, a professor at Warwick University in England, is one of a growing number of economists fascinated by the question of what makes us happy. In a recent public lecture he announced, "Once a country has filled its larders, there is no point in that nation becoming richer."

That, at least, should bring a smile to a few faces. Economists have suddenly realized that money can't buy you happiness? This is like the squarest kid at school suddenly discovering beer, girls and music in his 30s. The rest of the world had worked it out already.

One of the things that excites economists like Oswald is the ability to compare data on wealth, education and marital status with the results of happiness surveys. In these surveys, people are asked such questions as "Taking all things together, would you say you are very happy, quite happy, not very happy, not at all happy?" Economists have been trying to make sense of the results across individuals, across countries and across the years. The headline: Once a country gets fairly rich (though much poorer than the United States), further economic growth does not seem to make its citizens any happier.

So, money does not buy happiness. Or does it? "In every society, at any point in time, richer people are happier," points out Will Wilkinson, a policy analyst at the Cato Institute in Washington D.C., who runs a blog on happiness research and public policy. "But that in itself doesn't tell you much about the relationship between money and happiness."

Richer people, after all, tend to have high-status jobs. They tend to have more control over their lives at work--why pay someone six figures if you're not going to ask her to use her own judgment? They also have higher expectations and will be comparing themselves to wealthier people. It's hard to say what is really driving the results: money, status or expectations.

Perhaps each society's richer people are also happier because happiness comes not from absolute wealth but from relative wealth--recall H.L. Mencken's quip that "a wealthy man is one who earns $100 a year more than his wife's sister's husband." A more skeptical view is that while it means something to compare my happiness with that of the guy asking me for change on the street, it means nothing to compare my feelings today to those of my grandfather in 1950--or those of a Portuguese shopkeeper or a Japanese salaryman.

Wilkinson and economists like Oswald and his compatriot Lord Layard are thinking about the policy implications of happiness research. My own interest is a little different: Can the new breed of happiness economists offer us any tips for happier living?

Much of the advice is pretty slippery. For instance, married people are much happier than single people. So perhaps you should get married? (Even better if your fiancée's sister's husband is unemployed.) Not so fast. More sophisticated surveys show that the causation runs both ways: Happy people tend to find spouses, while those suffering from depression don't find it so easy. And--not surprisingly--some people do brilliantly out of marriage, and others are utterly miserable. As an economist, I'm afraid I have no idea whether you should propose to that cute girl you've been seeing. (You may or may not take comfort in Oswald's finding that you can always get out of marriage: People are happier immediately after a divorce than immediately before.)

Oswald also suggests self-employment, if you can pull it off without losing out financially. "Everything associated with self-employment--independence, autonomy--is also associated with being happy."

Both Oswald and Richard Layard argue that relationships are more important than money--and that includes professional relationships. "I've come to believe in the old-fashioned view that one should be tender in one's dealings with colleagues," Lord Layard told me in an interview. And what else? "Think about what you have rather than what you don't have, both materially and in your relationships and your personal strengths. To use the language of economics, don't try to rectify things that aren't your comparative advantage."

This is spiritual thinking from an economist, but Oswald goes one better. If you're depressed, why not just wait? "There's a kind of J-curve describing happiness over time. Your late 30s are the most unhappy period of your life, but then the older you get the happier you are. Life really does begin again at 40."

I think the most useful research, though, is by an honorary economist: Danny Kahneman, the only psychologist ever to win the Nobel Prize in economics. He asked nearly 1,000 working women in Texas to reflect on their previous day, list the different episodes in it, what they were doing and how they were feeling.

Some results are predictable enough: Work is miserable, and commuting is worse. Others are not so obvious. For instance, praying is fun, but looking after the kids is not. Spending time with your friends is one of the most enjoyable things you can do, but spending time with your spouse is merely OK. In fact, parents or other relatives turn out to make more enjoyable company than the supposed love of your life.

What is perfectly clear, though, is that socializing with anyone except your boss makes you feel good. Sex is best of all. This is handy advice at last. But what if you are having sex with your boss? Whereof economists cannot speak, we must remain silent.

Tim Harford, a Financial Times columnist, is the author of The Undercover Economist.

Go to Forbes.com to see the slideshow

Back to Your Money: Money, Happiness, the Opposite Sex
 

joelcairo

New Member
Jul 26, 2005
4,711
2
0
To anyone who claims money can't buy happiness my reply is OK please send me all your money - if it isn't succeeding in bringing you happiness it will succeed with me - if you're happy it's better to have money and if you're freakin unhappy it's still better to have money
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,463
6
0
Happiness is free

Ok, now its my turn to weigh in. I got a lot of predictable replies, basically stating that a lot of people equate money with happiness. This does not surprise me so I will not judge. But what if you were diagnosed with a serious life threatening illness? Would you still think as much about money? Probably not. You would be a lot more concerned with your health and ask yourself what really matters in life.

Everybody needs money but I can tell you that I personally know many disgustingly rich people in my line of work that are miserable. Why? because being happy comes from within, not from external goods and services. One of my favorite philosophers, Bertrand Russell, wrote a great book on happiness. He concludes that we can only achieve true happiness when we stop worrying about ourselves and start helping other people.

I know, this is counterintuitive, but if you think hard about it, it makes perfect sense. Finally, absolute wealth is meaningless, it is relative wealth that ultimately matters in society. If you have enough to feed yourself, clothe yourself and have a roof over your head, you're very lucky.

Of course, we always want more money, bigger breasts, longer penises, face lifts, etc., but this is a sure way down misery lane.

GG
 

FlyBob

New Member
Jan 17, 2006
108
1
0
Moiney doesn't necessarely means happiness but it can sure make a date with your favorite SP quite long :D

Cheers!
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,463
6
0
btyger said:
As for suffering from a terminal illness, money would still matter. Or at least life insurance. Wouldn't you want to leave those you care about in a good position?

btyger,

What I was trying to say was that we take the most precious things in life for granted. You cannot put a price on your health. Of course you would want to be able to take care of your loved ones in case of a serious illness but this has nothing to do with dying happy.

We are a society that glorifies money and people that have lots of it. I was talking to a friend of mine about how noble it is for Bill Gates to donate millions to prevent curable diseases in Africa. My friend scoffed: "Well, if I was that rich.....and it's a tax write-off for him....and...."

The fact is that there are many other billionaires that are that super rich and do nothing to alleviate suffering around the world. Warren Buffet said he will donate his wealth once he dies. What is he waiting for? At least he will do something good with his fortune. Larry Ellison, Paul Allen and countless others seem to squander it away.

You might be able to spend many hours with an SP but don't fool yourself: you cannot buy her true love. That, by the way, is free for the right man.;)

GG
 

FlyBob

New Member
Jan 17, 2006
108
1
0
General Gonad said:
You might be able to spend many hours with an SP but don't fool yourself: you cannot buy her true love. That, by the way, is free for the right man.;)
GG

OF Course!
But for a temporarely fling, it's nice to be in great company. :D

Cheers!

btw...your right about Bill Gates...he's easy to bash since he's the richest. :D
 

Carla

Banned
Jun 4, 2005
407
0
0
40
Montreal, Qc
I think money is proportional to health. You can take much better care of yourself with money. If you have a terminal illness I will virtually guarantee that you will either survive longer with more money or be able to afford much better conditions for yourself. And think about it, if you were diagnosed with HIV wouldn't you want to at least travel around the world?

From my own experience I know that I became 25 times happier after I could afford to move out from my family (no offence to my dad). I also take great joy in buying any food I like in the supermarket without worrying about the price.

I think it is all about your preferences. If you can spend on things that make you happy than it is great, but if in the process of making money you have to sacrifice your health and time then you have to put it into the equation.

Apparently Englishmen (along with Frenchmen) are popular for spending more time enjoying life than making money (as opposed to North Americans).

Conclusion: the happiest of all are people who don't have to work for their money.

Carla the Idealistic Capitalist
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
3,463
6
0
Carla said:
I think it is all about your preferences. If you can spend on things that make you happy than it is great, but if in the process of making money you have to sacrifice your health and time then you have to put it into the equation.
Carla the Idealistic Capitalist

Carla, you idealistic capitalist,

That sums it all up! I can tell you that I have met SPs that work to pay off debts but are miserable despite the fact that they make lots of money. They typically burn out quickly. The same goes for all of us: if you hate your job, no matter how much you make, you'll burn out.

As for myself, the best moments in my life were when I was a poor student working odd jobs to travel with my buds. I did not save a penny but all the money in the world could not replace those great memories!!!:D


GG
 

AutumnHaze

New Member
Dec 1, 2005
69
0
0
Montreal
It is great when you don't have to work or worry about money, provided that your source doesnt have many strings attached(family $ and their conditions :eek: ) otherwise I'd rather work 2 jobs to have freedom to do as I please . Its funny when you're used to having everything served to you on a silver plater then one day you throw the plater back and are like wtf no more of this ! I am close to my family now though. Something strange about me is that my happiest times always seem to be when I was broke :confused: . I agree with Carla though on the health issues , thats also where we're lucky(for now) to be in Canada.
 

Carla

Banned
Jun 4, 2005
407
0
0
40
Montreal, Qc
Kämpferrand, what does your name mean? My German is not that great,

Kämpfer = fighter
Kämpferrand = ??
 

Joe.t

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2003
3,875
302
83
Le Chabrol, Saint - Jacques
Visit site
Money is the door to eternal happiness at the same time it is the root of all evil(95% of crime is because of money), money buys everything ,happiness, love, jewlery, travel, anything that you can put your finger on, the only thing money cannot buy is health, i know that if i had money that i would be the happiest person in the world.
 

naughtylady

New Member
Nov 9, 2003
2,079
2
0
57
montreal
Anyone who has had money, lost it, and had to start over knows that money does not make people happy, at least not once their basic needs are met.

I personally experienced having to start over, with nothing, no cash, no job, just debt, heck even welfare refused me and you know what? I was happier with nothing than I was in my sales career, where I was making decent money and working 50 to 60 hours a week.

You know what makes people happy? A sense of control over their own lives; that is the secret to happiness. That is why the % of happy people is the same whether you live in Verdun or Westmount.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady
 

spin

Dazed & Confused
Dec 30, 2003
579
0
16
Visit site
Anyone who has had money, lost it, and had to start over knows that money does not make people happy, at least not once their basic needs are met.

Well naughtylady this is one of the very few times I don't agree with you, without going into too much detail at one point in my life I had money, more money than I probably should have had at a young age. Life was great, I went where I wanted when I wanted didn't have to spend 1 minute worrying about paying bills, if life suddenly got dull I would simply find my way to the airport and off to the beach.

Then one day like a swift kick in the ass I lost it all - Went on a 10 month gambling binge and BANG I was broke! I spent the next 5 years or so terrified, working just to pay rent and food I mean just miserable sitting in front of my TV 7 nights a week with nothing!

In the end I was very fortunate and things worked out for me, BUT I will never forget those 5 years of hell - Money may not solve all of the problems in your life BUT it does solve all of your MONEY problems.

Ok money doesn't buy love (this can be debated) but trying being lonely and poor as opposed to lonely and rich and let me know which one makes you happier - same goes for health.

The next time someone with money tells you that money won't make you happy, try consoling the unfortunate rich prick by explaining to him that poverty doesn't make you any happier.
 

Carla

Banned
Jun 4, 2005
407
0
0
40
Montreal, Qc
money/health/stress/drugs

Joe.t said:
Money is the door to eternal happiness at the same time it is the root of all evil(95% of crime is because of money), money buys everything ,happiness, love, jewlery, travel, anything that you can put your finger on, the only thing money cannot buy is health, i know that if i had money that i would be the happiest person in the world.
Money is the root of all evil exactly because people who don't have money are unhappy.

As for the health issue I disagree. Money buys health. Any statistics survey will show you that poor people are more likely to eat unhealthy, be more overweight, use illegal drugs, suffer from depression, die at younger age from heart attacks, smoking, cancer, HIV and whatnot. I know you will argue about cancer. Everybody gets cancer. I know a 40s lady who lives in Westmount and she had all kinds of cancer since she was a teenager. She is the happiest cancer lady, she is in great shape, looks good, has lots of energy and motivation. No offence but for a poor person cancer means misery slowly leading to death.

naughtylady said:
Anyone who has had money, lost it, and had to start over knows that money does not make people happy, at least not once their basic needs are met.

You know what makes people happy? A sense of control over their own lives; that is the secret to happiness. That is why the % of happy people is the same whether you live in Verdun or Westmount.
Ronnie, what do you mean by basic needs? Everyone living in Montreal has access to vaccines and clean water. Moreover if the person is not schizophrenic and is not addicted to substances they have access to social help such as welfare, social housing, shelters, free daily meals and food banks and clothing from the Salvation Army. If your basic needs were not satisfied you would be dead before you know it.

You are saying that people who live on the threshold of poverty (often found in Verdun) are just as happy as the rich people in Westmount.

Anyway, I won't argue with you.

There are some exception to the Money vs happiness rule. A national survey concluded that the happiest people in the world live in India with a very low standard of living. This could be due to their lifestyle with a very low level of stress but also could be due to their brain chemistry.

Here in North America most of us are really stressed out. Some people have to work very hard to afford a minimum standard of living, others worry about their retirement plans, yet others are capitalist fanatics who work even harder than everyone else and are even more stressed out than the rest because if they make a small mistake they can loose everything and end up with a big debt.

What I was saying before is that the happiest people are those who have a worry free stable source of income. I did not mean wives depending on a rich husband or children depending on their parents. This would mean that money does not belong to you and you have to work (or make sacrifices) to get it.

One of the examples of a worry free sources of income is that of William S. Burroughs. He was a bad apple in his rich family and the family decided to pay him a monthly allowance for the rest of his life just so he doesn't bother with them ever again. With the money he bought himself a house in California and spent the rest of his life as a drug dealer (a weed grower and an expert of all drugs). At some point he was tempted to try morphine. Since then he was addicted to morphine/heroine for over 40 years and died at the age of 83 (not bad for someone who took more drugs than it is possibly imaginable!).

The End,
Carla
 
Last edited:

PCGuy

New Member
Oct 5, 2005
160
0
0
Money may not buy happiness, but it'll pay for a big grin on my face.

In all seriousness, I work pretty hard for the life I live. I don't have any terribly expensive needs. I drive a modest car, dress nicely without having "Boss" stamped all over my clothing and eat well without having to buy Angus steak twice a week. However, I do have a nice home, take a couple vacations a year and keep cash handy for various entertainment ventures.

Would more money make me happier? If it means working less, while maintaining the same lifestyle, then yeah, I may be more cheerful as I have less stress. I don't have any major problems... not in debt, chemically balanced, good health, so money won't make me happier in those areas. I guess what I am saying is more money would allow me to spend more time doing the things I enjoy.
 

naughtylady

New Member
Nov 9, 2003
2,079
2
0
57
montreal
I never said that being poor makes you happy!

All I am saying, and there are many studies to back me up on this one (let me know if you are interested in reading the research), is that being rich doesn't make you happy. Happiness is a variable independant of wealth, except in cases of extreme poverty. People earning $250,000 a year are not happier than people earning $25,000 a year.

Yes money will solve your financial woes, (duh!) and given a choice nobody will choose to be poor rather than rich. ...and debt is very stressful. Obviously it is nicer to sleep on a good bed than a mat on the floor. But having material possessions does not bring long-term happiness.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady
 

Carla

Banned
Jun 4, 2005
407
0
0
40
Montreal, Qc
naughtylady said:
People earning $250,000 a year are not happier than people earning $25,000 a year.
25,000/year (if it is cash) is not so bad provided you don't have to support wife and kids. This is actually the amount I usually spend a year (without furniture which I already bought and don't need to buy again for the next 5 years). This is how much I am planning to make in 2006.

If I pay 700/month for rent and bills, I have 16,600 or 1380/month left for food, clothes and entertainment. To me it is pretty good. Most of the people I'm around have to survive on much less. Maybe it's just the specific environment I come from.

If I could get 250,000 instead of 25,000 doing the same amount of work of course I would be happier. You can tell me I don't know this for a fact so I won't argue.

Any research on happiness is highly subjective since each individual defines hapiness differently and all of us are unique in terms of put out of work. For some it is easy doing one kind of work for others it isn't, some will be honest some won't. So yes, I would be interested to see some research but I wouldn't be surprised if it was going both directions, i.e. one study will prove that wealth and happiness are dependent other that they are independent. I read a about a study (one about India) that money and happiness are reversely dependent (more money = less happiness) but this study took into account the stress factor. All I said is (which is pretty obvious to me) if you can have more money and less stress why wouldn't you be happier?

Carla
 

Carla

Banned
Jun 4, 2005
407
0
0
40
Montreal, Qc
naughtylady said:
But having material possessions does not bring long-term happiness.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady
Material posessions don't mean anything by themselves. If you have an expensive collection of ancient Egyptian sculptures and looking at them every day makes you happy than what is wrong with that? Another person may find them depressing room-taking dust collectors so to him they won't bring any happiness at all.

A house or a car are meaningless possesions by themselves, they are what they do for you. You may find your house cozy and pleasing for the eye every day you wake up, it provides you with shelter from society and you don't have an annoying landlord or neighbours partying upstairs. A more expensive car is probably more comfortable or you may want to impress others which is obviously something to be happy about.

I'm not that much on the possesions side, to me money means freedom. Primarily, independence from others and secondarily ability to enjoy life, have more time to do exciting things and be able to jump on the plane at any time and go somewhere and explore.

Carla
 

AutumnHaze

New Member
Dec 1, 2005
69
0
0
Montreal
spin said:
Well naughtylady this is one of the very few times I don't agree with you, without going into too much detail at one point in my life I had money, more money than I probably should have had at a young age. Life was great, I went where I wanted when I wanted didn't have to spend 1 minute worrying about paying bills, if life suddenly got dull I would simply find my way to the airport and off to the beach.

Then one day like a swift kick in the ass I lost it all - Went on a 10 month gambling binge and BANG I was broke! I spent the next 5 years or so terrified, working just to pay rent and food I mean just miserable sitting in front of my TV 7 nights a week with nothing!

In the end I was very fortunate and things worked out for me, BUT I will never forget those 5 years of hell - Money may not solve all of the problems in your life BUT it does solve all of your MONEY problems.

Ok money doesn't buy love (this can be debated) but trying being lonely and poor as opposed to lonely and rich and let me know which one makes you happier - same goes for health.

The next time someone with money tells you that money won't make you happy, try consoling the unfortunate rich prick by explaining to him that poverty doesn't make you any happier.
Well , if it doesnt make them happy , you could tell them if they'd be indifferent (having $ or not) to hand it over to you or a charity .:D
 

naughtylady

New Member
Nov 9, 2003
2,079
2
0
57
montreal
Just because money doesn't cause happiness, does not imply that having money makes people unhappy.

Carla>>> here are some refrences to happiness research (I can find more if you like): The research is clear, having money does not bring happiness, except in cases of extreme poverty, (think third world extreme poverty). Happiness comes from within, it does not come from having money or things.

Brickman, P., Coates, D., & Janoff-Bulman, R. (1978). Lottery winners and accident victims: Is happiness relative? Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 37, 1732-1741.

Diener, E., Suh, E., Lucas, R., & Smith, H. (1999)Subjective well-being: Three decades of progress. Psychological Bulletin, 125, 276-302

Lykken, D. (1999). Happiness. New York: Golden Books.

Myers, D.G. (1993). The pursuit of happiness. New York:Avon.

Myers, D.G. (2000). Funds, friends, and faith of happy people. American Psychologist, 55, 56-57

Myers, D.G. & Diener, E. (1995) Who is happy? Psychological Science, 6, 10-19

Myers, D.G. & Diener, E. (1996) The pursuit of happiness. Scientific American, 274, 54-56


Ronnie,
Naughtylady
 
Toronto Escorts