Long term arrangements

EagerBeaver said:

...That may work in Montreal, but $150-$200 is not going to cut it in most venues in the USA.

Click to expand...

I agree with Eager. My experience is the same. If you are seeking a pay-per-meet arrangement in the U.S with a woman who meets a reasonably high standard of attractiveness and desirability, then you should expect to pay $250-500 per encounter. A typical encounter would last 2-3 hours.

You should not discuss specific details of the arrangement until you meet in person or at least until you take the communication off the SA message system to texting or email.

If you insist on using SA like an escort ad site, then there’s a good chance you will get banned, as Jalimon found out.

New York Stories: A ‘Sugar Date’ Gone Sour. New York Times, Oct. 15, 2018
In the fuzzy space between jobs and relationships, there’s a lot that can go wrong.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/style/sugar-dating-seeking-arrangement.html

MattMiller

That's the ole reverse scamaroo. However there are a lot of scammers on the other side as well. Most of them are running online scams involving pics. There is a level of trust that needs to be established. The woman in that article should not have agreed to payment by Paypal from someone she was meeting in person. There was no excuse to fall for that story, she should have simply said it's cash or there will be no sex, buster.

Also, payment confirmations are sent by PayPal, and she should have gotten one.

MattMiller said:

New York Stories: A ‘Sugar Date’ Gone Sour. New York Times, Oct. 15, 2018
l

Click to expand...

This is a typical New York Times article. It is written to show disdain for a sexual practice that doesn't fit the approved norms of the left (or the right) while at the same time providing a degree of titillation for the typical uptight NYT reader.

It's also very misleading. Based on my experience and the experience of others that I have read about here and elsewhere, this type of scam is not common. It can happen but it is not typical.

Here are some excerpts from the article with my comments:

In the fuzzy space between jobs and relationships, there’s a lot that can go wrong.

True, and this girl did a lot wrong.

When you are 24 years old, jobless, boyfriend-less and in a fight with your mom, moving to one of the most glamorous, ballyhooed cities in the world can seem like a good idea. Never mind the expense.

I don't agree that moving to NYC was a good idea for this girl.

The cost of living (and partying) was more than she could manage, along with her $25,000 in college student loan debt.

Too bad, but the world doesn't owe her a living.

Accelerated by the anonymity of the internet, sugar-dating is a variation on “escorting,” that practice formerly advertised at the back of New York magazine and the now-defunct Village Voice newspaper.

The writer's tone is dripping with scorn for women who make money by selling sex. Typical elitist, upper middle class view of women they consider beneath them.

Ms. Fowles hesitated at first, but she convinced herself that sugar-dating would result in her having something of a regular relationship with an older man who would pamper her with an allowance.

I don't buy the "But I didn't think I would have to provide sex!" argument.

It includes a section on “hypergamy,” or what used to be known as marrying up.

Feminists hate the word hypergamy, because it describes the practice of women marrying up (or at least across) in socioeconomic status, which is almost universal in all civilized societies.

Sugar Baby students receive an average of $3,000 in monthly allowances...

This is an unsupported, self-serving myth propagated by Seeking Arrangement to recruit women to the site. Some women might make that much or more but there's no way that $3K/month is the average.

“In New York, prostitution is sex for a fee. And in each instance, the questions are, ‘What constitutes sex, and what constitutes a fee?’” he said.

Yes, it would be hard to prove that seeking.com is a prostitution site. But don't think that the prostitution abolitionists won't try-they might.

Without any prior discussion, he would hand her $200 or $500. There was no sex.

That's believable.

“It was very natural and it felt like a normal hookup, except he gave me money after,” she said. Nine hundred bucks, to be precise.

Dude, you overpaid but it's New York so everything can cost a lot more than elsewhere. But even for NY, he overpaid....if her report is true and it might not be.

In March, Ms. Fowles decided she needed a regular allowance coming from a regular arrangement. She went back onto the site and soon received a message from a man who said his name was Jay and that he was an investment banker at Bain.

First big mistake, girl. It would have been easy to make him prove that. At least ask him ask for a business card! Young people with poor educations can be so dumb.

On the phone, “Jay” said that his name was really Ron...

A guy using a fake name is a huge red flag.

He asked her if she had a friend to bring along...

Another huge red flag.

Ms. Fowles felt an urgency to make it all happen.

Another big mistake.

He asked Ms. Fowles to book the room.

Yet another mistake.

He wanted them to wear thongs and high heels. Heavy makeup. He specifically requested “a smoky eye” and “a nude lip.”

She hasn't even met the guy and she is taking directions on how to dress up like a stereotypical hooker?

He was in grubby clothes and did not look like he had just come from a lunch meeting.

Red flag! Red flag! Red flag!

...he said he wanted to pay her and her friend via the PayPal app..

And she fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

Ms. Fowles and her friend then had sex with Ron. After his request for a massage (they said yes) and then a request for another go-round (they said no)...

At least they said "no" for once.

The women started Googling. They quickly found that the man had been an employee of City Hall and was now a student in a New York University program that is in Brooklyn, near the Jay Street-MetroTech subway stop. He’s married with children. He is not an investment banker (nor does he work at Bain, the management consultant firm).

The guy was an idiot too for thinking he could get away with his scam for long. I hope he got arrested or at least fired.

Ms. Fowles hopes to warn “sugar babies” of their vulnerability in finding “sugar parents” on websites like SeekingArrangement; if they are taken advantage of or abused in such relationships, they have little recourse.

That's true and that's why you take proper precautions before you commit to anything.

Mr. Agnifilo, the lawyer, said it is unlikely that Ms. Fowles committed solicitation or prostitution as outlined by New York state statutes.

Still, Ms. Fowles has washed her hands of sugar-dating, hoping to pursue a career in personal styling. And she makes no apologies for her experience.

I wish her good luck but that doesn't sound like a realistic way to solve her problems.

“Women are stigmatized and seen as repulsive and worthless when using their bodies to support themselves,” she said. “I was in a tough place financially, and I am O.K. with my decisions. Women have sex with vile men all the time so why shouldn’t we be paid for it if we choose? I don’t deserve to be shamed for it, or scammed because of it.”

I feel sorry for this girl. She would have been better off working as an actual escort and getting some help from an agency in how to do it right.. I agree that women are stigmatized by both conservative and feminist abolitionists for "using their bodies to support themselves." And that's an injustice. Unfortunately very few people are in a position to do anything about it.

Ms. Fowles' supposed "reverse scam" sounds incredulous. It seems to me a little common sense goes along way on Seeking and any other similar sites. But it's still a useful cautionary tale for SD ans SB. EB's strategies seem useful.

etalon69 said:

Hey everyone, (sorry for the long message in advance!)

Since reading all of this thread helped me out a lot in discovering SA and the world of sugar daddies and sugar babies, i wanted to write about my experience with SA as it could benefit others.
...

Among all the SB's i have met, i am still seeing 2 of them and enjoying it

Click to expand...

Etalon thanks for your post. Read it with great interest. You want much farther then me on SA in that 1 month. I was not careful enough and got banned after a month. I did create a new account but did not pay yet. I have 17 messages that I cannot respond

But I do not need to pay yet (I find the 89$ US per month ridiculously high!). I am still seeing one girl of the 5-6 I had met during that month. Her 250$ for 2 hours (she actually stays like 3h..) is unbeatable. I am only her second guy from the site and she saw the first one only twice. I like the fact that it's her texting me to see me. My goal is to bring her to do more kinky stuff as gfe does not interest me. If I cannot achieve that I will go back on SA to find a kinky one.

SA is really worth it

Cheers,

The more time I spend on S.A. , the more I appreciate escorts.
The amount of time I wasted on S.A. is ridiculous.
Every time I think I found the droid I am looking for, she inevitably ends up disappearing before I get the chance to meet her in person.
The rare times when I actually manage to meet someone in person and take her to bed, the sex is usually disappointing...

Same for me on SecretBenefits. Need a lot of patience and time. I gave up..!

Just subscribe to the site (SecretBenefits). Seem not have that many interesting girls.

FYI, SecretBenefits is a scam.
It gives you lots of messages from supposedly 20 year old girls, but you have to pay to read them, and once you have done that, you never hear from them again.
Whoever is creating these fake profiles and sending messages from them is clearly affiliated with the website since they profit from it.

Ducon said:

The more time I spend on S.A. , the more I appreciate escorts...

Click to expand...

theyellowman said:

Same for me on SecretBenefits. Need a lot of patience and time. I gave up..!

Click to expand...

Ducon said:

FYI, SecretBenefits is a scam.

Click to expand...

I've never tried Secret Benefits and I probably won't do so. However, as I have described here previously I have had some good luck on Seeking.

Having said that, I understand why not everyone likes sugar sites. And I especially understand why guys in Montreal would not want to waste time looking for a sugar baby in a town where great escorts are easily and safely available within minutes or hours, whenever you want one. (Though I will say that when I look at the girls from Montreal on Seeking, I would be tempted to at least give it a try sometime.)

Nevertheless, for some of us who are stuck living in a country that is in the grip of a vast and ever-worsening moral panic about prostitution and other aspects of sexuality (yet another anti-prostitution law was passed with bipartisan support last week), the sugar scene can be a relatively safe and rewarding outlet for fun.

As I've reported here before I've met and had encounters with a few women over the past year and one of them became a regular for me. Unfortunately that relationship seems to have come to an end.

I kind of saw the end coming. During the last couple of months she seemed less enthusiastic about meeting me and then she started being less reliable in communicating with me to set up meetings. Furthermore, I became aware a while ago that she was engaged in another relationship and I had become concerned that maybe it wasn't such a great idea to continue seeing a woman whose partner was probably not aware of her other "engagements."

So sensing that the end of the relationship was near, I reengaged with Seeking.com in search of a new partner. The membership fee of $89/month is high but you have to keep in mind that you usually only need a single month to find one or more new candidates for the job and that you can easily cancel your membership after a month.

Within a week of renewing my membership I found someone whom I think will take the place of my former regular.

She contacted me first (always a good sign). We exchanged a few messages and shared our private photos. She fit my preferred demographic, i.e. 30ish single mom, and her photos were pleasing. She is half-Filipina, half white (I like women of mixed ethnic backgrounds), pretty, with a nice body. We decided to meet for a get-to-know you lunch and that went well enough that we quickly came to an agreement on terms ($250 per encounter of 2 hours including social time and intimacy). So she came to my house the next day and we consummated the relationship. All in all things are off to a good start and I plan to see her again soon.

But I will be the first to admit that things don't go like that with most of the women on Seeking. Since I renewed my membership I have had some kind of contact with 15-20 women and all of those contacts led to nothing except for the one successful case. I can definitely understand how guys would get frustrated with such a situation. However, I am willing to put up with lots and lots of strikeouts in order to have a chance to hit a home run.

The reason that I put up with the frustration of Seeking is that, in the current atmosphere of hysteria in the U.S. about prostitution and sex, I find it safer, cheaper, better and ultimately easier to find good amateur escorts than professional ones. When I go back to Montreal, Germany or Asia, I will hire the pros. However, until then, I have been satisfied with my experience on Seeking.

Who is this wife that wouldn't notice excess money in the range of $24k a year mysteriously gone? My now ex wife rode my ass for a $12 Starbucks purchase wondering who the 2nd latte was for. A- my sister, B- bye, cya, didn't sign up for this!

Kontraband1978 said:

Who is this wife that wouldn't notice excess money in the range of $24k a year mysteriously gone?

Click to expand...

What post are you responding to? Who said he was spending $24K/year on an SB? On an hourly basis, my spending on SBs is less than what I typically spend on escorts. That's part of the reason I like it.

I signed up for Seeking and I have to say I am enjoying just browsing the ladies. It is apparent to me that many are just hooking. It is so obvious I fear that they may be a police sting operation. I have not tried to forge an arrangement yet but that are plenty of targets.

hungry101 said:

It is apparent to me that many are just hooking.

Click to expand...

Yes they are the ones which tags "Friend with benefits"

Cheers,

Has anyone ever groomed a young lady into an arrangement relationship but you met her in person first instead of the Internet?

^^^^^^ Up 2. If you have not joined yet you could put you are 4' tall with full body hair except your head and no penis and you would still get girl requests. ... If I am correct then it costs to see who is interested in you.

^^^^^^ Same thing, a bot with a fake picture is replying, mention you have no teeth and scurvy, they will still want to meet you.

CaptRenault said:

She contacted me first (always a good sign). We exchanged a few messages and shared our private photos. She fit my preferred demographic, i.e. 30ish single mom, and her photos were pleasing. She is half-Filipina, half white (I like women of mixed ethnic backgrounds), pretty, with a nice body. We decided to meet for a get-to-know you lunch and that went well enough that we quickly came to an agreement on terms ($250 per encounter of 2 hours including social time and intimacy). So she came to my house the next day and we consummated the relationship. All in all things are off to a good start and I plan to see her again soon.

Click to expand...

She sounds perfect. Since I am no longer a MSOG guy and I like some social time and cuddling, two hours for $250 is great. If I know my Filipinas, they like some cuddling.

There are some young, urban 20somethins' with looks and bodies built for sex on SA, but they seem to be either incredibly demanding or TGTBT. I'm thinking a more mature, single mom or a young girl two hours outside of the city who is bored might be just the thing. Some of the small town girls on SA seem like they legitimately want to be entertained. If she's a single mom, perhaps even better.