Somalians running across our border --your thoughts?

The Government should send them to the areas where there is not too much populationand we need more people to develope the areas.
There should be a very limited time to support them through Social Assistance (Welfare) and then should let them to make any excuses that they cannot find any job. I know a lot of young/able people for the last 20 years, were on welfare and still On Welfare.
If someone likes to work can find a job. I came here as an immigrant and with in one week I started my first job $6.50 an hour.
And welfare is the main attraction for the most who cross border. After 6 months they have to find jobs and contribute their share, as we are doing.

I didn't realize that Montreal mayor Denis Coderre had declared the city a "sanctuary city" earlier this year. As a result of this policy and due to the Trump administration tightening rules on illegal aliens in the U.S., the number of refugees arriving in Montreal from Haiti (via the U.S.) has jumped in recent months. Many of them are being housed in the Big O, the Olympic Stadium.

However, as tbis article describes, not all government officials (and citizens) in Quebec are happy about these developments. There was a lot of feel-good talk about refugees when the Trudeau government took in a generous number from Syria. Canada has an enlightened policy towards immigration and the country needs immigrants to keep growing. At the same time, the rhetoric of officials like Trudeau and Coderre may be creating a refugee crisis and undermining the willingness of Canadians to support a liberal immigration policy.

No guarantees of asylum for refugees, Premier Couillard says

Philip Authier, MontrealGazette.com Published on: August 12, 2017 |

SHERBROOKE — As the flow of people seeking asylum at the border continues, Premier Philippe Couillard has felt it necessary to clarify there is no guarantee people trying to get into Canada will be accepted.
Without naming Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre directly for saying on Twitter refugees can count on Canada creating the impression the doors are wide open, Couillard said he felt the need to correct certain perceptions.
“Yes, we are a society with a compassionate, welcoming tradition that we are proud of, but we are also a society that believes in the rule of law and fairness,” Couillard told reporters Saturday.
“This (obtaining asylum status) is very demanding, and difficult and success is far from guaranteed."

Earlier, on his personal Facebook page, Couillard went further.

“It is unfortunate that vulnerable persons have allowed themselves to be convinced that their admission as refugees to Canada and with us in Quebec would be simple, even automatic,” Couillard wrote. “It is not the case.”
He goes on to say all requests for asylum will be treated in the usual way and under the same strict rules as before. Those who already applied for immigrant status will not be penalized.

Over the past few weeks, word has spread on social media it’s easy to get into Canada when, in reality, the statistics show only about half of the people who apply for asylum will be accepted. Of the 412 refugee claims made by Haitians and finalized in 2016, 207 were accepted.

Two tweets in particular spread like wildfire. On Jan. 28, Trudeau tweeted: “To those fleeing persecution, terror and war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength. #WelcomeToCanada.”

From Coderre: “Message to Donald. Montreal proud sanctuary city. Newcomers and refugees are welcome. Diversity is our strength and part of our DNA.”

Arriving at a two day policy convention of the Liberal Party’s youth wing here, Couillard said he’s personally ready to make use of social media and do radio interviews to correct the perception.
“We must not take away people’s hopes … but we have to give people the real portrait of the situation, especially to people who are still in the United States and might be tempted to try the same thing.”

And while Couillard was careful not to blast Trudeau or Coderre harshly, he ripped into Coalition Avenir Québec leader François Legault, who this week took a hard line against allowing asylum-seekers into Canada and suggesting they should be turned away.
“If you follow through on his (Legault) logic, when he describes Quebec as a sieve — which by the way is false — ‘we’re going to build a wall, aren’t we Mr. Legault, and the Haitians will pay for it, right Mr. Legault?’ ”

He accused Legault of flip flopping on the refugee issue, noting in February Legault said Quebec should welcome people fleeing U.S. President Donald Trump’s policies with open arms.
“What does this tell us; that this (CAQ) is a party without orientations or profound values,” Couillard said. “We can’t have confidence in people like this.”

Earlier in the week, the opposition criticized the Trudeau and Couillard governments for their handling of the crisis. Legault described Quebec as wide open, a sieve, for new arrivals.
He said Quebec already lets in more immigrants than it can easily integrate with its limited resources.

Parti Québécois leader Jean-François Lisée accused Couillard and Trudeau of lying to the Haitian people because their chances of making a home here were slim.

“When they (Justin Trudeau and Philippe Couillard) say you are going to live here the rest of your life, it’s false,” Lisée said. “At least half of these people will be sent back.”

Couillard’s office responded with its own statement saying Legault is needlessly stirring up the fears and concerns some Quebecers may be feeling about the situation when he should be acting like a humanitarian leader in a crisis.
It said Legault had failed another leadership test and has no concrete alternatives to offer in the crisis. Lisée also ripped Legault, saying his idea of being able to block people at the border is impossible given current laws. He said Legault is indulging in “wishful thinking.”

On Saturday, Couillard argued the two opposition leaders are deliberately starting to talk about “foreigners,” because the economy is going well and they have little left to criticize the government.
“Apparently, it’s alway a good theme politically,” Couillard said. “We aren’t like this.”

Later, Guillaume Simard-Leduc, director of communications of the CAQ, issued a statement saying Couillard should stop treating people who think the government should discourage illegal border crossings with contempt.
He insisted Legault never proposed refusing immigrants at the border, but instead denounced the Liberal line inviting them to cross illegally.

But in an interview with Radio-Canada television Thursday, Legault said: “The Couillard government and Mme. (Kathleen) Weil (the immigration minister) and company really need to change their line and say: ‘If you come here illegally we are going to return you to your country.”

Everyone said that the election of Donald Trump would result in a flood of people headed north to Canada from the U.S. The prediction turned out to be true!

Why now is better than never for migrants in Montreal

Many of the Haitians fleeing the U.S. don’t expect to win refugee status, but they will find a temporary safe haven in a welcoming city
macleans.com
Meagan Campbell
August 4, 2017

At dark, the Olympic Park in Montreal is almost quiet. One civil engineer who lives in the neighbourhood goes for his evening stroll, while a local harpist crosses the grounds to get to the subway station. Pools are closed and sidewalks as still as the on-site statue of Copernicus. But outside one door of the stadium, there mingles a group of Haitian refugee claimants.
“I’m crazy for Canada,” says a man who worked in Miami painting houses and installing ceramics, after leaving Haiti before the 2010 earthquake to find work. He seems to suggest that he will try to stay in Canada by faking his death. “Supposed dead,” he repeats. “Supposed dead.”

As Montreal receives more than 150 migrants per day this week, sleeping on Red Cross cots in a sports dome, some of the estimated 1,174 migrants who arrived in July don’t expect to be granted refugee status. Haitians are fleeing America after a spring policy change that targeted them for deportation. Past natural disasters, or fear of general crime or poverty in Haiti, won’t likely suffice for receiving refugee status; they would need to be threatened by gangs, violent police practices, abusive spouses or other specific risks.

However, because Canada processes refugee claims so slowly, many migrants find it’s still worth making the claim, for years of safety and basic health care during which they might send some money home, marry a Canadian, or escape the government’s radar. Nicaraguans, Hondurans and El Salvadorians could soon face the same predicament as Haitians in America, meaning 300,000 more migrants could look north. Canada’s backlog doesn’t just delay people who eventually receive protection; it makes Canada more appealing for claimants with little chance.

“It’s not a safe-haven, but it’s the next best option,” says Lody Jean, president of the Haitian Lawyers Association, based in Florida. “There has been a little bit of a hysteria and fear of people being deported, rounded up in the middle of the night,” she says. Since the 2010 earthquake, many of the 58,000 Haitians in America have held temporary protected status (TPS), which has allowed them to work and live in the country. In May, the Department of Homeland Security announced that this status will expire this January, and it also began cracking down on Haitians who don’t have any status.

Republican senators Marco Rubio and Bill Nelson both argued to extend the status past 2018, and after Haiti had a hurricane last October, Jean says, “it was a no-brainer that they’d renew it.” Walt Disney World employees also wrote a letter to the department hoping to keep their 500 Haitian staff members. “They, in the eyes of Disney World, are hard workers,” says Jean.

Along with America’s push factor, Montreal has pull. The city was the first in the world to respond to the earthquake, sending volunteers to train civil servants using funding from the Canadian International Development Agency. Montreal boasts the third largest Haitian community in the U.S. and Canada next to Miami and New York, and Mayor Denis Coderre welcomed Haitians this week over Twitter.

Ironically, another pull is Canada’s slow processing. The Immigration and Refugee Board is expected to have a backlog of 36,000 cases by the end of this year, which it warns could push the wait time to 11 years, according to an internal memo obtained by the Canadian Press via an Access to Information request. The Board says this backlog could cost Canada $2.97 billion in the next five years in social services for pending applicants. “The reality is that for people who ultimately receive Canada’s protection,” says Paul Clarke, president of the Action Réfugiés Montréal, “it’s to everybody’s advantage that the decision come as quickly as possible.”

In Little Haiti, a neighbourhood of Miami, word of Canada is spreading through churches and media. A Haitian radio station, Radio-Mega, has aired reports of a “rush of migrants” entering Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, near Montreal, as well as clips from CBC Radio-Canada. Through a Creole Facebook page, Haitians spread tips of how to cross to Canada, and for anyone who doesn’t have family, the best way is the illegal way.

The Safe Third Country Agreement doesn’t apply to people who cross the border illegally, only to those who cross at official checkpoints. Migrants are crossing within a few kilometres of the Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle processing centre, such as at Roxham Rd. “It’s become fairly common knowledge to somehow get your feet onto Canadian soil, but not at a regular point,” says Clarke.

Two days after the City of Montreal opened Olympic stadium to migrants, the park has already become a pop-up Little Haiti, where migrants have found the closest Caribbean restaurant to supplement their provided dinner of pork chops, rice and broccoli. Free to explore the city before the 11 p.m. bedtime, each migrant wears a bracelet with an identifying code. A three-and-a-half-year-old girl, sucking on a toothbrush, wears the bracelet fastened to her wrist at the second-tightest notch.

Naibenz Vil, wearing code 4N2, is a musician/mechanic from Croix-des-Bouquets, Haiti, where his father still grows rice, mangoes and avocados. Vil moved to Brazil after the quake, then New York for one year before bussing to the border. Unlike some of his friends, he believes he will successfully get refugee status and live the rest of his years in Canada. He wants to become a customs officer.

As this Globe & Mail editorial points out, the recent surge of Haitians crossing the border hoping to claim refugee status in Canada does not yet represent a crisis. But if the Trudeau administration does not do a better job of managing the situation, it could develop into one. There are 10 million+ illegal immigrants in the U.S. If only some of them start to fear deportation under Trump's anti-immigrant policies and statements, then Canada will start to look like an attractive alternative to returning to the countries they came from.

Globe editorial: Time to fix our uniquely Canadian border mess
The Globe and Mail
Wednesday, Aug. 16, 2017

No, the number of people walking across the Canada-U.S. border at Roxham Road is not a refugee crisis. In a country of 36 million people, which accepts 300,000 immigrants a year, 3,000 asylum seekers – that’s how many are believed to have illegally crossed in the last few weeks – don’t meet the definition of crisis. Not yet.

But the spike in illegal arrivals is revealing, once again, the multiple, long-standing dysfunctions of this country’s refugee-determination system. It is also laying bare the incoherence of the Liberal government’s response.
The government could be handling all of this in a manner that is lawful, orderly, transparent, compassionate, and honest with both Canadians and asylum-seekers. Instead, what we are witnessing is papered-over chaos. The Justin Trudeau government would of course be happy if the flow of people stopped of its own accord, but it has until now been extremely reluctant to be seen to be attempting to stem the tide, lest it be accused of acting Harper-like. And lest it give a lie to one of the Prime Minister’s most famous tweets.

In January, just after Mr. Trump’s inauguration and when the flow of people was just starting, Mr. Trudeau tweeted: “To those fleeing persecution, terror and war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength. #WelcomeToCanada.”

The tweet was widely praised. It was a lovely contrast to President Trump and his unconcealed Islamophobia. But Mr. Trudeau and his government had no intention of welcoming everyone who walked across the border. That’s not how Canada’s immigration and refugee system works, no matter whether the government is Liberal or Conservative. Under international and Canadian law, a refugee is someone who is fleeing his or her country because of a well-founded fear of persecution. Canada grants asylum and a path to citizenship for people who are genuine refugees. All others are likely to be ordered to leave – eventually.

Most this summer’s arrivals at Roxham Road in Quebec are from Haiti, but traditionally about half of all refugee applications from that country are rejected. What’s more, a program allowing Haitians to temporarily remain in Canada, begun after Haiti’s massive 2010 earthquake, was ended last year by Ottawa – long before Mr. Trump’s administration began taking the same step. Mr. Trudeau’s sunny tweet hid rather a lot of fine print.

On Tuesday, Transport Minister Marc Garneau said that Canadian consulates in the U.S. were being “mobilized” to “get in touch with different groups that might be considering coming to Canada, so they can clearly explain the rules in place and the criteria that must be met before being able to come.” It seems hard to believe that’s going to accomplish much.

We’re guessing that not a lot of potential asylum seekers get invited to consular garden parties. And even if they did, the message that Canada is now delivering, sotto voce – if you don’t meet the legal definition of refugee, you won’t be allowed to remain in Canada – is not entirely accurate. It’s true in theory. Practice is another story.

The challenge is not that the people arriving at Roxham Road don’t understand the Canadian refuge system. It is rather that they may understand it better than the elected officials in charge of it do.
In June, the Canadian Press obtained a federal government memo showing how the glacial refugee system could slow even further with just a small uptick in the number of asylum seekers, of the sort seen this summer. In the most optimistic scenario – 28,000 refugee claims made in Canada in 2017, rising to 36,000 in subsequent years – the average time to get a case heard will be four to five years. With higher numbers of migrants, and without new government resources, the memo said that wait times could grow to as much as 11 years.

A court ruling this week revealed yet more things not working in our refugee determination system. On Monday, Ontario Superior Court Justice Edward Morgan ordered Ricardo Scotland released from a maximum security prison, where he has spent 18 months over the last two years, despite having no criminal convictions or charges. Mr. Scotland is a refugee claimant, and at some point the government decided that, unlike most claimants, he is a flight risk and a danger.

However, the judge found no evidence whatsoever to support that contention. None. The Canada Border Services Agency put Mr. Scotland in a maximum security prison, and left him there, for what the judge described as “no real reason at all.”
Mr. Scotland’s treatment provoked outrage, and should have. But the case has another interesting wrinkle. Mr. Scotland is a citizen of Barbados, a relatively prosperous and democratic country. He made his refugee claim in 2010. Seven years later, the system has still not decided whether he is, or is not, a refugee.

People are crossing at Roxham Road because they can, easily. The distance from the end of the U.S. street to the foot of Chemin Roxham in Quebec is just a few steps. Go to a legal border post and you’ll be returned to the U.S.; cross illegally, and your claim will be heard. Once you’re in Canada, you can remain until your case is decided. And that may not happen for a long while. A lot can happen with the passage of time.

The best response Canada can offer is to speed up the refugee determination process. That means spending more money, and hiring more bodies for the Canada Border Services Agency and the Immigration and Refugee Board. Determine status quickly, accept those who are genuine refugees, quickly, and remove those who are not – quickly. It’s possible to have peace, order, good government, fairness and honesty. The current system is compromising all of the above.

Best thing Canada can do for Canadians is have a bunch of busses taking the illegals back into the US. The ones coming here are worried about being caught as an illegal already in the US or they want to enjoy our welfare system.
I sugar coat nothing, welcome legal immigrants and the illegals should follow procedure.

Canada's refugee program is becoming a joke. Almost 70% of recent applicants were granted asylum. https://www.thestar.com/news/immigr...gee-acceptance-rate-peaked-in-four-years.html

Any immigration attorney will tell you that if an applicant is well coached in what they say during their asylum interview, they can pass the "well founded fear of persecution" test by relating some details regarding their religious persecution, etc. It takes a seasoned immigration officer to bring out the falsity of their persecution claims.

Sol Tee Nutz said:

Best thing Canada can do for Canadians is have a bunch of busses taking the illegals back into the US. The ones coming here are worried about being caught as an illegal already in the US or they want to enjoy our welfare system.
I sugar coat nothing, welcome legal immigrants and the illegals should follow procedure.

Click to expand...

Very well said STN.

And let's just say that our process isnt the hardest one! smff

bignasty said:

Canada's refugee program is becoming a joke. Almost 70% of recent applicants were granted asylum. https://www.thestar.com/news/immigr...gee-acceptance-rate-peaked-in-four-years.html

Any immigration attorney will tell you that if an applicant is well coached in what they say during their asylum interview...

Click to expand...

IMO, I don't think that any "REAL REFUGEE" can make it to the Canadian border if they don't have what it takes ($$$ ?).
Real refugees can barely make it to a neighboring countries.

As we know from the Canadian experience, it takes lots of efforts (Private and Government ) to bring real refugees
to North America.

Just can't believe that this so called "Refugees" can outsmart our "Well Educated Immigration Officers And Judges".
Remember, one judge granted refugee status to the would be LA Bomber.

Having said that

I HAVE NO ISSUES OR PROBLEM BRINGING REAL and NEEDY REFUGEES.

Where is Trumps' wall?

Mr. Banana said:

Where is Trumps' wall?

Click to expand...

Trump's proposal for a wall on the U.S border with Mexico has nothing to do with this issue. Though I suppose Trudeau and many Canadians would like to blame the Current refugee problem in Canada on Trump.

I do not support Trump's proposal for a wall on the border with Mexico but even if it were built, it would do nothing to prevent illegal immigrants from leaving the U.S to go to Canada. The U.S. has never tried to prevent anyone, whether illegal immigrants or regular citizens, from leaving the U.S. If you want to leave the U.S. and go to Canada, then you are free to leave. However, Canada may or may not welcome you to stay forever.

Sound of barking dogs will keep them away.

Totally agree with sending them back.

But what if the US won't take them?

It is a slap in the face to all the honest immigrants who follow the rules. People wait years and these Somalis just walk in. Fuck them.
There are lots crossing into Manitoba too.
One crossed in winter and lost all his fingers to frostbite.
So he has no idea of winter.
No money. He was in hospital for quite a while.
Who is paying his huge medical bill?
No fingers? What kind of work is he going to do?
He has...all by himself...cost Canada millions of dollars.
He will never contribute anything, he will be collecting benefits forever.

Meanwhile much needed plumbers and masonry tradesmen from Eastern Europe cannot get in. They would be working the minute they got here. But instead we get people who cannot read or write, cannot speak English have no job skills, jumping the line ahead of them.

Well look what they did to Sweden. They turned a place with virtually no crime into the rape capital of the world.

But Canadians are naive and behind the political curve of the world. When everyone is fighting to get rid of their Obama / Merkel we just voted ours in.

Trudeau also pulled a Merkel by saying all the refugees that the US doesn't take can come here. It's a good thing we're relatively iscolated and not literally right next to the Middle East like Europe is or we'd be in real trouble then.

free money? they are given an amount of free spending money? this just sends the fast word of mouth that makes more want to come, its just human nature.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/stca-etps-eng.html#protection
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio.../agreements/safe-third-country-agreement.html
https://autumnleaves--wintertrees.t.../revised-on-january-12-2018-65655pm-re-posted

2015-2016 - 2018 so far

• Here. You want information, then try reading the actual safe third country agreement on the canadian government website. Please do your own research on multiple, reliable, vetted sources yourself, such as the canadian government website before any of you or anybody else starts making claims that people are getting a free ride into canada, that anybody has taken advantage of the system, that anybody has “jumped the queue”, or other misinformed things. This is literally not what is happening.


• By definition per the stca, the crossings not made at official border checkpoints are not ‘illegal’. By definition, 'legal' entries and 'legal' checkpoints are not 'legal'. Using the word "illegal" only criminalizes the person, and is nothing but ignorant and inflammatory speech.


• Some of you claim that your ancestors came to canada through official channels and wonder why other people don’t do that. The thousands of people who cross irregularly should be a clear sign that they do not have the option to go through official checkpoints.


• Many of you in this forum are likely descendants of people who fled the first and second world wars. They did not go through official channels; they came with the millions of other people who fled the wars. They had no options and they got the same bombastic reactions. These ridiculous ideas about refugees come up even when there are clear facts to dissolve them like I am giving you now.


• Every single one of you in this forum would look to the long wait times created by the excessive backlog of refugee claims as a way to set up a temporary life before your claim is reviewed and you may be deported in 5 or 11 years. It’s one single chance at a home, each one of you would take it.


• Yes, our Prime Minister Justin Trudeau did have a hand in the confusion that has swept up asylum seekers, but as with anything it cannot all be blamed on one source. The current u.s. president is another source. Canada's lack of proactive vision on refugees is another.


• The amount of asylum seekers (by definition per the stca they are asylum seekers, not refugees, and they are not immigrants) grew as a direct result of the current u.s. president threatening to deport people like them. The amount continues to grow because he continues to cancel agreements like DACA, something where you cannot qualify for DACA if you've committed a crime. These are some of the most reliable and promising members of the u.s. and they are still being deported, yes it does have to do with skin colour. This is all literally easily searchable facts, yes, they are true and I’m not your parent so don’t ask me for “sources”. Look up multiple, reliable, vetted sources yourself, such as the canadian government website. It is not difficult.


• Considering the way a lot of you talk about Somalians, Haitians, and Syrians coming across the border irregularly I’m sure it surprised you to learn that non-nazi Germans are a thing that exists. They fled the wars and came in irregularly; they are your ancestors. Surprise!