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Thread: The slippery slope

  1. #1

    The slippery slope

    Mod 5 closed SL's travel thread because it quickly degenerated into a pissing match between him and Regnad. I will reopen the subject on the slippery slope here but respectfully ask that both Regnad and SL think twice before contributing.

    I want this thread to focus on the slippery slope. I really liked Doc Holliday's post because it captured the essence of what I wanted to explore further. Here was the exerpt from Doc's comment that I focused on and my response:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
    Not that long ago, one of the several young ladies in the biz that i am friends with mentionned to me that she'd be unable to meet me for dinner on a certain date since she'd be spending time with a particular client for 3 consecutive days. "Three whole days??", i asked her. "Yes, three whole days with him", came the reply. "What's wrong with this?", she asked. Well, i took a deep breath and told her how i really felt about these arrangements. "To be honest, i find this very sad", i told her. "I'm very happy for you that you're able to get paid for this, don't get me wrong. But i find it sad that someone has to pay someone to spend time with him in some other capacity other than for sex. I mean...think about it....he's paying for you to stay with him. Ain't this kind of sad?"
    (end of quote)

    I am focusing in on what Doc has written above. Why? because I feel that it is at the heart of the matter. He is absolutely right: if you pay an SP to fill an emotional void in your life, then you are in all likelihood, doing a lot more harm to yourself without even knowing it and this is sad. This is where it's not just innocent fun but a serious lapse of judgement; it is sad that people feel that they can buy someone's friendship. Some SPs prey on these weaknesses; most don't.

    I will let you in on a real life experience of mine. Last fall, I arranged a two hour session with an SP that I desperately wanted to meet. We emailed each other, we spoke over the phone and we just clicked in every possible way. I was extremely nervous because I really wanted to meet her and it was one of my first encounters. I get to the motel (Chablis on East Sherbrooke) where we arranged to meet and I had a memory lapse: I kept dialing the wrong number. I was stupid enough not to give her my cell number and I did not write her number down (I thought I memorized it)! I remembered to bring everything else, including two books that I wanted her to read, but I forgot her number by one god damn digit because I was nervous!

    Anyways, after an hour of trying many numbers, I gave up and I drove back home to read my emails and call her (the motel had no internet access). I felt like an idiot and I was continuously apologizing to her. She told me not to worry and that she understood that these things happen. We then had a great two hour conversation. It was deep and pure. At the end, I asked her to meet me for lunch and she agreed.

    It was a beautiful sunny day and we ended up meeting on St-Denis. We exchanged compliments and then had a lunch where we got into even deeper conversation. At the end of the lunch, I handed over the two books and the $400 I felt I owed her. She was shocked and said that she couldn't accept it. I told her it's the right thing to do and I insisted that she keep the money. (BTW, $400 is a lot of money for me - nothing to piss away).

    She is gone from the biz now but she still emails me on occasion to see how I am doing and to tell me that I made significant difference in her life. "You gave me the courage to confront the demons from my past and to deal with my insecurities." I never had sex with her but I shared something a lot more meaningful. We shared an intense discussion on things that SPs rarely venture into. We exposed our deepest secrets to each other and we helped each other without ever having sex!

    But as intense as it got, I never deluded myself into thinking she fell madly in love with me or that I can win her over with my charm and intellect. That wasn't my purpose. I just did what I thought was right. I saw a fellow human being who needed help and I responded. Again, I did not delude myself into thinking that I will fall madly in love with her and neither did she.

    I am getting off track with this story. I guess what I wanted to write is that there is nothing wrong with meeting an SP for dinner, taking a trip with her or helping her out with a selfless act as long as you know where you stand. But you have to be honest with yourself and ask yourself whether there is a deeper emotional void that you are trying to fill. If this is the case, then it is sad. This is not the type of therapeutic effect that I am talking about. In this case, you need to consult professional help.

    I think this is what SL was getting at when he writes about delusions. As for me, I try to cap my encounters to two or three hours to protect myself from slipping into this delusional state. As I previousy stated, there is a fine line between delusion and fantasy and many of us cross it without even knowing it. This is the danger of intense hobbying. When your emotions get too involved, you can easily slip into oblivion.


    GG
    Last edited by General Gonad; 03-19-2006 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    I enjoyed reading your story with the sp that you wound up compensating because of your mistake. I would have done exactly the same thing. The fact she lost revenue was due to your mistake, so yes, i would have done the same thing. Many others wouldn't have, sadly. What i might have done was maybe meet her halfways (half of the amount), but it was up to you and it radiates class.

    I see nothing wrong in compensating an sp for a trip if intimacy is one of the main reasons for the trip. I've heard too many stories from hobbyists where they travelled to a US city and claimed they wasted their hard-earned money on american sps that weren't that pretty and whose services sucked. Paying a local provider (Mtl) for her time and expenses makes sense in such circumstances. It's good value for your money....much, much better than blowing it on a local US provider at higher prices. But in my case....if i'd want an sp friend to accompany me, it would be more or less just to have a companion for a trip. Whether we'd have intimacy or not wouldn't matter. If we would, who knows what arrangement we'd have. Of course, i doubt very much any sp whom i barely know or don't know would agree to accompany me on any trip if she isn't well compensated, let's make this clear. I wouldn't expect her to feel any different about me than i would if it would be anyone else. By taking her away from the local scene for a few days or so, i'd be cutting into the revenue she'd be making if she would have stayed home. I wouldn't want this either.

    Several years ago, my purposes to hobby were much different than they were over the last 2-3 years. Four to six years ago, curiosity and companionship was the main reason. I was originally quite curious about all of this at first, having discovered the hobby via internet web sites similar to this one. It was also at a time where i was quite confused and had various problems in my personal life that needed to be dealt with, but which i kept putting on the back burner. It was an escape, so to speak...and at a time when i was lonely and needed the company, having recently been out of a long-term relationship, my second one. I have on more than one occasion called someone up, and nothing much except conversation and light petting/kissing would occur once she'd arrive. They found this unusual, of course, but that's all i needed at the time. It didn't always happen like this, of course...it was actually rare. But it did happen.

    These last 2-3 years, there were two reasons why i still wanted to see women in this biz: intimacy and friendship. Yes, the good ol' sexual release reason...mother nature, you could call it....and i'd want to see sps i had met previously whom i got along with very well. In other words, the intimacy part was the excuse we needed to see one another. These days, hobbying almost seems a thing of the past for me...but if i happen to see someone on the rare occasion, it would be for the reasons mentionned above in most circumstances.

    A final tidbit: Four years ago, i was set up with a hobbyist's friend by someone who had told her he'd introduce her to the creme-de-la-creme of hobbyists (her words). She had been out of the biz for 2 years and needed money. He had offered to introduce her to a few hobbyists he trusted and knew they would respect her and treat her well. When she arrived in my room at HDH on that particular evening, i had been running all over the place trying to get ready for my guest. I had been having supper with Belle Giselle earlier and supper had been running late. So when my guest arrived, i was practically out of breath, invited her in, and offered her a drink. She later told me that when this occurred, she was surprised at the way i greeted her (no kisses or hugs) and had nearly left. She thought i was a cold person and she didn't feel she'd want to spend an evening with such a person. Well, i apologized to her upon hearing this and explained....and she admitted that she was wrong and that i was far from being a cold and uncaring person as she first had feared. Anyways...my session with her almost seemed like i was having sex with my shrink. She spent the evening trying to analyze me and would get upset because i wasn't opening up to her. I remember her lying on top of me and staring me in the eyes for what seemed like minutes, which i'd find very uncomfortable. She said that i was hiding a lot of problems and in denial. Well, i later realized that she was correct about this. However, to be frank, i wanted to get laid....i wasn't looking to be analyzed by a shrink, which would only make me feel worse.

    Once the intimacy over, she decided that she would spend the night with me...a sleep over. She felt i needed it and it would do me some good. Whatever, i said....i haven't had one before so it might be a nice thing to try. Well, she instructed me to lend her a pair of boxer shorts and a t-shirt, and to promise not to try anything sexual during sleep. Fearing she might decide to charge me an amount the next morning, i asked her if she wanted to be compensated for this. She thought it over, and asked for $300. Cool, i said....man, was i ever naive back then! LOL

    We barely slept a wink...we tossed and turned all night long. No kissing, no touching, etc. She got up early in the morning since she had to go to work at her regular day job, and made me promise not to tell anyone about our sleep over since she hadn't done this in years and had never done this with her regulars, including our common friend. I was surprised to hear this, and felt privileged. A few days later, i emailed her to thank her for a wonderful evening. She replied telling me that she was surprised to hear this, since she thought that i hadn't liked her very much. A few months later, i heard that she was upset that i hadn't called her since that time and was actually saying negative things about me to other hobbyists. Well, i had never promised anything to her, didn't think we had clicked that much, and i was surprised to hear that she had expected me to call her again.

    Which goes to say that i was quite naive back then and my beliefs today and reasons to hobby are much different than they were back then. I often was used by some agencies and agreed to see their girls, blowing tons of money in the process. Made great reviews of them and made a lot of money for the agency. Yet, i never got a goddamn discount out of it. Never asked for one, nor did i know that it was a common practice with some other 'famous' hobbyists.....but i learned from it and maybe that's why i'm such a penny-pincher today. But i still have yet to accept a discount. My integrity is still 100% pure!
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 03-19-2006 at 07:41 PM.

  3. #3
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    If you decide to play checkers with an SP for your appointment... who cares? It's your money.

    I think the quagmire is about whether or not anyone can disassociate themselves with an action - do hitmen feel a kill? Can SP's enjoy a visit?

    Such a question is only meaningful if we consider such disassociation to be morally abhorrent. Sex without emotion; violence without remorse.

    So: Why do we presume that sex should occur within emotional parameters? Why do presume that a human being should feel remorse after violence against others?

    I think SP's should start befriending the hitmen.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy Cool
    I won't delude myself into thinking there is a relationship there, but IMHO we do have the foundations of a friendship and that to me is special.
    Big Daddy,

    Absolutely, a friendship can develop. Another cool SP that I recently invited to meet me for lunch was Anik (Sweet Anik) and I liked the time we spent conversing on all sorts of social issues.

    >>Nugie, on your question "Why do we presume that sex should occur within emotional parameters?" I don't presume a thing. In fact, an SP can enjoy herself in many ways throughout the meeting but she is more aware of where those parameters lie at all times where some clients tend to forget them altogether.

    >>Doc, great story, thanks for sharing. BTW, I had no idea that many "famous" hobbyests get discounts from the agencies. How many times do I have to call John before he can offer me a freebie?

    GG
    Last edited by General Gonad; 03-20-2006 at 01:21 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Gonad
    Doc, great story, thanks for sharing. BTW, I had no idea that many "famous" hobbyests get discounts from the agencies.
    Not in the present as much. But years ago....4-5 years ago to be precise. And i was referring to a high end agency. These discounts (if you want to call them that) usually occurred when the agency's girls would be travelling to the States. More money is to be made when the girls travel to the States, and they need the good word to be spread around the industry. I've never had concrete proof of this, however. I only heard this from the girls themselves. One girl would tell me something....and i'd see the same girl a month later and she'd begin the conversation by telling me that she never heard of this going on. So i guess someone must have got to her or else she had a very poor memory. These days, the discounts i've heard about are nothing compared to what they used to be years ago. I would never accept a lousy $20 discount from any agency (low end or high) just for the sake of writing a review. I still have ethics.
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 03-20-2006 at 01:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
    I would never accept a lousy $20 discount from any agency (low end or high) just for the sake of writing a review. I still have ethics.
    Amen! They can take their $20 and shove it. I only write reviews when I feel they are warranted. Sometimes I wait to write one but I would never feel obliged to write a review, especailly over a lousy $20 discount!

    GG

  7. #7
    and supper had been running late. So when my guest arrived, i was practically out of breath, invited her in, and offered her a drink. She later told me that when this occurred, she was surprised at the way i greeted her (no kisses or hugs) and had nearly left. She thought i was a cold person and she didn't feel she'd want to spend an evening with such a person. Well, i apologized to her upon hearing this and explained....and she admitted that she was wrong and that i was far from being a cold and uncaring person as she first had feared. Anyways...my session with her almost seemed like i was having sex with my shrink. She spent the evening trying to analyze me and would get upset because i wasn't opening up to her. I remember her lying on top of me and staring me in the eyes for what seemed like minutes, which i'd find very uncomfortable. She said that i was hiding a lot of problems and in denial. Well, i later realized that she was correct about this. However, to be frank, i wanted to get laid....i wasn't looking to be analyzed by a shrink, which would only make me feel worse.
    Dude.. she wanted you.
    I'm not even talking about client-Sp relationship.

    She thought i was a cold person and she didn't feel she'd want to spend an evening with such a person.
    She was testing you because she was attracted to you.

    She spent the evening trying to analyze me and would get upset because i wasn't opening up to her. I remember her lying on top of me and staring me in the eyes for what seemed like minutes, which i'd find very uncomfortable.
    Wayyy more interested than just a client.

    Her offering to sleep over proved it. When you offered money ($300), that was pretty much the dealbreaker.

    After reading all of these posts about people 'deluding' themselves... (I didn't read the previous thread..) but if you ATTRACT the girl, and she's ATTRACTED to you and you want to have a real ... something ... with her, then STOP treating her like an SP. STOP offering money. Stop it. They're humans too. They're not goddesses. Treat them like you would a regular girl. Even regular girls don't want to be treated like godesses, so don't.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Gonad
    Amen! They can take their $20 and shove it. I only write reviews when I feel they are warranted. Sometimes I wait to write one but I would never feel obliged to write a review, especailly over a lousy $20 discount!
    I guess we see eye-to-eye on this. The day that i accept a $20 discount in order to continue hobbying is the day that i will disappear from the scene. If i can't afford to hobby anymore, it'll be goodbye and it was fun!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudemtl
    Her offering to sleep over proved it. When you offered money ($300), that was pretty much the dealbreaker. After reading all of these posts about people 'deluding' themselves... (I didn't read the previous thread..) but if you ATTRACT the girl, and she's ATTRACTED to you and you want to have a real ... something ... with her, then STOP treating her like an SP. STOP offering money. Stop it. They're humans too. They're not goddesses. Treat them like you would a regular girl. Even regular girls don't want to be treated like godesses, so don't.
    I never looked at it with the same angle you did. You make a good point. However, that happened over 4 years ago, and i was still basically a beginner back then and very naive (as a hobbyist). Of course, you wouldn't see me offering her the extra $300 today. I would actually probably ask her to leave and not sleep over. As for your final statements....i see your point of view. However, one of the reasons why i do pay to see an sp is because i'm not interested in pursuing an intimate relationship with her. That's why i'm a hobbyist. Not because i can't get laid in my personal life, but because i'm interested in spontaneous no-hassle sex and not seeking to pursue a relationship, which is the last thing on my mind when i happen to see an sp. However, i do realize that everyone has his reasons to be a hobbyist and i also realize that there are some guys out there hoping to meet their future wives in this business, as crazy as this may sound.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
    I never looked at it with the same angle you did. You make a good point. However, that happened over 4 years ago, and i was still basically a beginner back then and very naive (as a hobbyist). Of course, you wouldn't see me offering her the extra $300 today. I would actually probably ask her to leave and not sleep over. As for your final statements....i see your point of view. However, one of the reasons why i do pay to see an sp is because i'm not interested in pursuing an intimate relationship with her. That's why i'm a hobbyist. Not because i can't get laid in my personal life, but because i'm interested in spontaneous no-hassle sex and not seeking to pursue a relationship, which is the last thing on my mind when i happen to see an sp. However, i do realize that everyone has his reasons to be a hobbyist and i also realize that there are some guys out there hoping to meet their future wives in this business, as crazy as this may sound.
    I understand where you're coming from. WHhile I'm not saying that you see SP's because 'you can't get laid', what I AM saying is that you can save yourself a WHOLE lotta money and get laid for free when the signals present themselves.

    As I'm flat broke, that kinda money is wayyy out of my boundaries. But even when I am with a girl, I don't even buy them drinks unless they buy me one first. This gets results.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudemtl
    I understand where you're coming from. WHhile I'm not saying that you see SP's because 'you can't get laid', what I AM saying is that you can save yourself a WHOLE lotta money and get laid for free when the signals present themselves.
    I know what you mean and i appreciate it. However, i've always been very slow at getting the 'hints', if you know what i mean. As for getting laid for free when the chance presents itself....if i'd want this, i'd stay home in Arizona. But i can't get peace-of-mind that way. The doc likes his peace-of-mind....

  12. #12
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    he's paying for you to stay with him. Ain't this kind of sad?
    I have had several occaisions to spend 2 to 4 day dates. In every instance he was a business man travelling alone, who basically wanted someone to eat with (it is more pleasant enjoying fine dining when you are not eating alone), someone to do a little sight seeing with (again more fun to share with somebody), someone waiting in the hotel room after a meeting/conference to "decompress with" (definately done better with somebody).

    Don't judge someone until you know all the facts. Remember it is not as if he is in his home town where he knows all sorts of people.


    Ronnie,
    Naughtylady
    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by naughtylady
    Don't judge someone until you know all the facts. Remember it is not as if he is in his home town where he knows all sorts of people.

    Ronnie,
    Naughtylady
    Ronnie,

    Doc was not judging anyone. The point of this thread is this: are we, the clients, aware of this slippery slope and are we at risk of getting emotionally hurt if we cross the line? I am not talking about the brutes who pay money for a half an hour or hour session to stick their salami in any lady and unload. These guys are incapable of feeling anything but the blood flowing out of their brain down to their penis. They are hopeless cases.

    What Doc was talking about was the lonely guy who is emotionally cripple and finds temporary solace in paying an escort to spend lots of time with him. This is sad and I will say it again, these guys are better off spending their money on professional help. An SP can never fill a deep emotional void unless she truly falls in love with the client and they both take the relationship to a higher level. But SPs rarely slip like this; more often than not, it is the emotionally weak clients that generally slip up. In fact, even stable clients can cross the line on occasion and think that they're in love.

    Ronnie, your businessman case might be a legitimate case of a guy who just doesn't like being alone. Maybe he is fine and is aware of the parameters at all times. He is emotionally stable and strong but just needs someone there for him.

    However, I will admit that I find this behavior peculiar. I am a loner by nature. What I mean by that is that I am very social but I need my time alone, reading in the bookstore, walking aimlessly downtown, having a coffee while reading the paper all by my lonesome. I feel like people are afraid to be alone and face themselves. That is also sad. I cannot tell you how much stronger you'll feel when you truly discover yourself. I do it every day.

    GG

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy Cool
    General Gonad:
    When a type 1 SP meets a type 1 Hobbest, there's no problem. But when the type 2 and 3's are involved, then there's the possibilty of the lines getting blured from eather the SP, the Hobbyest or both.
    Big Daddy, you're absolutely right on this. But I still think it is rare that SPs slip up and fall in love or escort to fill an emotional void. It can happen but it is not typically the case.

    GG

  15. #15
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    You're absolutely right, Daringly. People do all kinds of things to fill emotional voids-seeing psychiatrists...(some of whom seduce their patients, btw) Some see escorts. They're professionals, too... If you can afford it, then go for it. It only becomes a problem when you're no longer honest with yourself. In this case, this is a sign of a problem, not the cause of one.
    But money will get you into even more problems than women...

    As for voids, why are so many of us in this chat room?
    In my case, I had a son, stupidly and wrongly believing it would save my failing marriage. I love my son, but...it was wrong and selfish of me to bring him into a failed relationship.
    Last edited by btyger; 03-27-2006 at 06:26 AM.
    Why are homely people discriminated against...we're the majority

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