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Thread: Delusion vs Fantasy

  1. #1

    Thumbs down Delusion vs Fantasy

    A recently closed thread touched on this topic.Maybe mod5 could transfer the relevent posts to this thread so that the origins of the topic may be saved.

    Not very comfortable with the Delusion vs Fantasy diachotomy.I see it more as
    Rational vs Irrational debate.

    From the standpoint of a person receiving information about the hobby or from a provider it comes down to being able to interpret the data.The information may be viewed as a series of points or dots that may or may not be related.Some people filter out the unimportant points and connect the remaining key ones in perfect harmony or rationally.Others do not - sometimes in a fashion that may result in the ultimate irrational ending.

  2. #2
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    Isn`t this thread roughly on the same subject?

  3. #3

    Anecdotal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentle2her
    Isn`t this thread roughly on the same subject?
    The thread started by General Gonad is anecdotal whereas this one was intended to be cerebral.I did not want to get into story swapping and see it generate into flaming as the thread that gave rise to both threads did.

  4. #4
    uninformed informant
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    Delusion: 1)A false belief or opinion
    2)false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness

    Fantasy: 1) An imagined event or sequence of mental images, such as a daydream, usually fulfilling a wish or psychological need.
    2) An unrealistic or improbable supposition.


    nuff said
    Inherited Will, the destiny of an age and the dreams of its people. These things will not be stopped.
    As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom. They will never cease to be.

  5. #5

    Very important distinction

    "Fantasy" is ambiguous in nature as a word and carries no negative stigma. I would say if anything its probably viewed in a healthy light as it indicates an individuals ability to "dream" and therefore give oneself a therapeutic break from reality, as long as one realizes the fantasy and is able to withdraw from it when needed.

    "Delusion" carries a negative context since it implies the inability to see fantasy for what it is or an inability to withdraw from it.

    From some of the recent arguments I have seen on this subject it seems there are two camps on this issue. One side that thinks that anyone who "fantasizes" is actually delusional and the other side that sees fantasy for what it is and has a perfectly healthy grip on it. Allowing for possibilites beyond the SP/client relationship does not make anyone necessarily "delusional". It only separates those who look at situations and see possibilities from those who look at the same situation and see no possibility. Pessimist vs. Optimist or Cynics vs. Dreamers if you will.

    While there may be some people who have a hard time separating themselves from fantasy, I don't pretend to know who they are based upon what little information I see posted here on Merb. Any Psychologist worth their salt will tell you there simply is not enough information in a few postings on a message board to know enough about someone to go making diagnoses about whether or not they have a "grip."

    If I were to do the opposite to those who try to make these assertions I would argue that they are totally empty and devoid of feeling/emotion for women, other than utter contempt. I would theorize that they have suffered tremendously at the hands of a woman/women, probably an SP who they fell in love with and then had their heart torn out by. I would tell a tale of how this traumatized them into being incapable of having a loving relationship and gave them a desperate need to convince everyone else to be as miserable as they are since misery loves company and they can't stand to think that someone else might succeed where they failed or were burned. But then how could I possibly know that? Its a guess, at best. I certainly wouldn't wish that kind of a headcase on any poor bastard I know.

    In the end its all moot. I'm going to enjoy hobbying my way, with lots of fantasy involved and no preset notions about whats "real" and what isn't. My good time is "real" enough and so are my orgasms. I just don't care how anyone else feels about it(so save your breath telling me how I should feel) I post reviews here to share with others so they can make informed decisions as to whether or not they would like to see an escort I have seen. Whether or not someone else thinks my fantasy has gone too far is irrelevant and no one really cares anyway. My misfortune is no sweat off anyone elses ass so treat my good fortune the same way, leave it alone. A little ambivalence would go a long way for a lot of us who are too wrapped up in trying to prove or disprove who is wrong and who is right.
    "I can picture every move that a man could make
    getting lost in her loving is your first mistake

    Sometimes I think its a sin
    When I feel like I'm winning when I'm losing again"

  6. #6
    I agree HonestAbe, the last paragraph of your post pretty much sums up the way I feel about this.
    Try everything in life at least once, except incest & maybe square dancing.

  7. #7
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    We all have fantasies. They makes you smile when you think about them, and they wake up some very funny feelings when they happen, some type of short term happiness. What's a fantasy? In simple terms, it's a hope that something can happen, something you look forward to. Some fantasies are realistic (ex: make love to 2 women at the same time), others are impossible (ex: make love to Jessica Beal - What a babe!), and most are in between.

    You definitely know when a physical fantasy was fulfilled, but the problem is when it's based on feelings or something that can't be empirically "verified". You then have no definitive confirmation that what you hoped for is for real or not. And then the delusion is when you thought a fantasy had become real, and you realize it was in fact just that: a fantasy. Depending on a number of factors, it may be a trivial thing, or it may hurt. Some will then fall into obsession, when they still don't want to believe it was just a fantasy, and they keep trying to make it real. If it reaches this point, consultation is required.

    Example of a fantasy: Hoping that the special moments you spend with someone can develop in something more important after knowing each other, an affair or a friendship, or more simply that you are somewhat "special" to someone. Some high-end SPs are real good at making this happen (and some dumbass clients with unexperienced SPs ). That's how some SPs earn a living (or for clients to earn freebies).

    The ensuing delusion: Continuing with my example, you realize the friendship or that "special" aspect of your relation you thought existed is only one way. You realize that whenever you meet there's still always money involved (SP) and/or you always have to initiate contact and never get return calls unless the other person is in need of something. It may take a long time before the delusion happens, because you just want to believe in your fantasy and don't want to see it's fake.

    Then, the obsession: You keep calling or trying to get together with that person, over and over, despite the obvious lack of genuine interest from him or her. You desperately want to be the friend or special person you always thought you were, and you keep on trying, and trying, and trying.... It's still part of the delusion, but brought to a higher level (or I should say a lower level).

    Finally, the acceptation: Either alone or with some psychological help, you finally realize this whole thing was just a fantasy and you move on. Depending on how deeply involved they were, some individuals will take years to move on, while other will require a very short period of time.

    The example I outlined above is probably one of the most common fantasy/delusion happening in this hobby. Many guys suffered from it, and it will continue to happen. And it's not happening only in the SP world: People are going through these states in many situations, as couples, marriages(!), with their jobs, etc. Gamblers also falls in the same kind of pattern.

    Solution: Keep a cold head. Be skeptical. Never assume or take anything for granted. KNOW THE SIGNS so that you can identify what's happening. Sadly, for some people the fear of living through another delusion may also kill the potential of living through any kind of romance or true friendship. You get burned only so many times.

    Fantasy, Addiction, Delusion, Obsession. It's all different states of the same thing. The first is healthy, more than that it's a problem.

    My 2 uninformed cents

    Gentle

  8. #8
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    Gentle

    That was brilliant! Absolutely f...ing brilliant.
    Your post, as well as Abe's, should be mandatory reading for all who venture in or out of this hobby. Well done fellas and thank you!


    Sam
    Long time lurker.
    Last edited by samadams; 03-20-2006 at 06:44 PM.

  9. #9

    Fascinating Post HA

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestAbe
    "Fantasy" is ambiguous in nature as a word and carries no negative stigma. I would say if anything its probably viewed in a healthy light as it indicates an individuals ability to "dream" and therefore give oneself a therapeutic break from reality, as long as one realizes the fantasy and is able to withdraw from it when needed.

    "Delusion" carries a negative context since it implies the inability to see fantasy for what it is or an inability to withdraw from it.

    From some of the recent arguments I have seen on this subject it seems there are two camps on this issue. One side that thinks that anyone who "fantasizes" is actually delusional and the other side that sees fantasy for what it is and has a perfectly healthy grip on it. Allowing for possibilites beyond the SP/client relationship does not make anyone necessarily "delusional". It only separates those who look at situations and see possibilities from those who look at the same situation and see no possibility. Pessimist vs. Optimist or Cynics vs. Dreamers if you will.

    While there may be some people who have a hard time separating themselves from fantasy, I don't pretend to know who they are based upon what little information I see posted here on Merb. Any Psychologist worth their salt will tell you there simply is not enough information in a few postings on a message board to know enough about someone to go making diagnoses about whether or not they have a "grip."

    If I were to do the opposite to those who try to make these assertions I would argue that they are totally empty and devoid of feeling/emotion for women, other than utter contempt. I would theorize that they have suffered tremendously at the hands of a woman/women, probably an SP who they fell in love with and then had their heart torn out by. I would tell a tale of how this traumatized them into being incapable of having a loving relationship and gave them a desperate need to convince everyone else to be as miserable as they are since misery loves company and they can't stand to think that someone else might succeed where they failed or were burned. But then how could I possibly know that? Its a guess, at best. I certainly wouldn't wish that kind of a headcase on any poor bastard I know.

    In the end its all moot. I'm going to enjoy hobbying my way, with lots of fantasy involved and no preset notions about whats "real" and what isn't. My good time is "real" enough and so are my orgasms. I just don't care how anyone else feels about it(so save your breath telling me how I should feel) I post reviews here to share with others so they can make informed decisions as to whether or not they would like to see an escort I have seen. Whether or not someone else thinks my fantasy has gone too far is irrelevant and no one really cares anyway. My misfortune is no sweat off anyone elses ass so treat my good fortune the same way, leave it alone. A little ambivalence would go a long way for a lot of us who are too wrapped up in trying to prove or disprove who is wrong and who is right.
    Thank you very much for a fascinating and very well reasoned post which should be a must read.If I may filter your detailed comment to its basic elements it comes down to the following:

    A hobbyist should have the cognitive ability to fully enjoy the chosen experience for the moment and not believe it for a lifetime.

    I think the excellent post by G2H fits within the boundaries of the above.

    Good work guys.
    Last edited by eastender; 03-20-2006 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Fantasy - you pay for the hours and have fun

    Delusion - when you think a SP really likes you and you think there could be something more

  11. #11

    Thumbs down Fantasy vs. delusion: "I did it my way!"

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestAbe
    In the end its all moot. I'm going to enjoy hobbying my way, with lots of fantasy involved and no preset notions about whats "real" and what isn't. My good time is "real" enough and so are my orgasms. I just don't care how anyone else feels about it(so save your breath telling me how I should feel) I post reviews here to share with others so they can make informed decisions as to whether or not they would like to see an escort I have seen. Whether or not someone else thinks my fantasy has gone too far is irrelevant and no one really cares anyway. My misfortune is no sweat off anyone elses ass so treat my good fortune the same way, leave it alone. A little ambivalence would go a long way for a lot of us who are too wrapped up in trying to prove or disprove who is wrong and who is right.
    HonestAbe,

    I read your post three times. It was brilliant....probably the best thing I ever read here. You articulate your argument very clearly and I agree with your positive vs. negative distinction between fantasy and delusion. And in the end, we all do this hobby our way (like Sinatra's song).

    Can we nominate this for post of the year?

    GG

  12. #12
    Working rage-aholic
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    Quote Originally Posted by orallover
    Fantasy - you pay for the hours and have fun

    Delusion - when you think a SP really likes you and you think there could be something more
    You've diagnosed a fantasy correctly, but I think you're oversimplifying a delusion. Just because something is unhealthy, doesn't mean it's delusional or incorrect.
    Why are homely people discriminated against...we're the majority

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