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Thread: Patriotesay so long, Vinateri, McGinnest, Givens

  1. #1
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    Patriotesay so long, Vinateri, McGinnest, Givens

    Don't know how many NFL fans there are here, but here goes...

    For 6 years Belichick has made these heartless decisions (and I say heartless as a compliment). Every offseason the Pats lose at least one big name; Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Ted Washington, etc. They seem to be able to get solid replacements and good talent throughout their lineup more often than not.

    Despite the track record of success, I heard a lot of Pats fans sound like they're about to jump off the ledge last week. While the losses of Vinateri, McGinnest and Givens surely hurt, I think people are being a little nostalgic-something that is against the Patriots credo.

    If anything, the loss of Givens hurts the most, because of his age. The loss people seem most upset about is that of a kicker. A Hall of Fame kicker for sure, but a kicker. They'll get a replacement. McGinnest was a talented pass rusher and a leader in the locker room. But he was 34...old for a linebacker. Vinateri was beloved for his super bowl kicks, but a bit overrated because of them, too.
    Givens is a big loss, but the Patriots weren't about to give him No 1 receiver money. They have to think about next offseason, and pending free agents Deion Branch and Richard Seymour.
    They have a lot of holes now, but they have $20M to spend and I believe they can field a contender again. Thanks to these heartless decisions, they should be able to do it without hurting their prospects down the road, too.

    It's not lost on me that Belichick was an economics major...perfect schooling for the era of the salary cap.
    Last edited by btyger; 03-26-2006 at 06:44 AM.
    Why are homely people discriminated against...we're the majority

  2. #2

    Absolute tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by btyger
    The loss people seem most upset about is that of a kicker. A Hall of Fame kicker for sure, but a kicker. They'll get a replacement.... Vinateri was beloved for his super bowl kicks, but a bit overrated because of them, too.
    Good points Btyger,

    The only one I take issue with you on is Vinatieri. I am not a Pats fan either so it doesn't bother me one bit that they lost him. While I agree with you in principle I disagree as to Vinatieri specifically because he was what we know as "clutch." It is easy to replace someone, it is not so easy to fill the shoes of someone like Vinatieri however who may be, MAY be, the most clutch kicker in the history of the game.

    Its unforgivable the way Pats leadership let him go by saying that they felt they "owed it to him" to let him test the market since they wouldn't(supposedly couldn't) give him the long term deal that he wanted, and deserved, but then never talked to him again ala Red Sox/Johnny Damon. While the Pats sat back with their thumbs up their ass their arch-rivals (Colts) stole him for a measly $2M per year something the Pats' could have easily squeezed in under the cap. Vinatieri was reported as being greatly dissapointed with Pats' management about this.

    IMO it is more than fair to argue that without him the Pat's, MAY not have Super Bowl victory #1 yet. That is the reason he is so treasured, but overrated? I don't think so. Vinatieri wasn't just clutch in the Super Bowl. He was clutch week in and week out all season long, year after year, and when you look at the Pats' amazing record during their Super Bowl Dynasty they won a great deal of VERY close games that were decided by Vinatieris' leg.

    Of course the cherry on top for Pats fans was that on the biggest stage in the sporting world, in the closest 3 Super Bowl games one can imagine, Vinatieri had the weight of the world on his shoulders and delivered kick after game winning kick without so much as flinching. There is no replacement for "clutch" and its not something that is learned, you either have it or you don't. Vinatieri had it to spare.
    "I can picture every move that a man could make
    getting lost in her loving is your first mistake

    Sometimes I think its a sin
    When I feel like I'm winning when I'm losing again"

  3. #3
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    HA, I agree with you about Vinateri's contributions and accomplishments. But I trust the judgment of Belichick and Pioli. Yes, they're way under the cap, but they may well need the money to secure long term deals with Seymour and/or Branch. True, Vinateri booted all three game winners in their Super Bowl victories, but only because his team put him in position.
    That said, Vinateri was frustrated with the Patriots. They'd made him the highest paid kicker by far, but they'd also put the franchise tag on him for years to avoid giving him a long term deal.

    I'm not sure the Colts weren't better off taking Vinateri's money and investing in a defensive player. Defense still wins championships.

    The guy I'm going to miss the most is McGinnest. He gave great and witty interviews. Before Super Bowl XXXVI, a reporter told him there was a rumor that he would retire after the game. He asked, is it true, Willy?
    His reply: "There's a rumor going around that you're gay. Is it true?"
    Last edited by btyger; 03-26-2006 at 06:44 AM.
    Why are homely people discriminated against...we're the majority

  4. #4

    Bill Walsh

    When Bill Walsh was running the SF 49ers during their Super Bowl glory years, he never let himself get emotionally close to his players even with the likes of Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott because he was aware that somewhere down the road he would have to make the tough decisions to let them go so he could re-stock the roster with talented youth and let star backup guys get playing time. I see the same thing happening here with Belichick. McGinest, Vinatieri and Givens' best years are behind them and the Pats chances of returning to the Super Bowl are probably better served by committing long term cap money elsewhere.
    A demander: une cochonne Quebecoise ou Allemande avec qui le sol se derobe sous mes pieds!

  5. #5
    Picasso,

    Again I agree with that sentiment about everyone but Vinatieri. Reason being that kickers don't have the kind of strain put on their bodies as position players do. They don't suffer as many injuries nor are they subjected to as many kinds of injuries as position players are. Many of the games greatest kickers played into their forties and displayed almost no notable difference in their skills. By all means double check this but I believe off the top of my head that Ray Wersching, Nick Lowry, and Morten and Gary Andersen all were excellent kickers who played into their forties. My guess is that Vinatieri will be a "money" kicker for at least 5 more years.

    I don't know what to make of it. The Pats have to be aware that there is almost no one they can get who will fill Vinatieris' shoes, they have in essence, purposely downgraded their kicking game which was so instrumental in their success over the past 5 years. They may sign someone with a strong leg but what will his accuracy be like? Especially with all the pressure on him to be as good as Vinatieri. The Pats may even have a problem getting a kicker to want to come there because of the knowledge that any kind of bad performance will make them the most hated man in Foxboro.

    I don't feel like I am going out on a limb at all when I predict that the Pats will suffer noticably because of Vinatieris loss. I think we will see them lose at least one game outright because of a missed FG at the end of the game and will lose at least two more because of missed FG's during the game. Just my .02, well have to wait and see.
    "I can picture every move that a man could make
    getting lost in her loving is your first mistake

    Sometimes I think its a sin
    When I feel like I'm winning when I'm losing again"

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