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Thread: The morals of hobbying: are we depraved?

  1. #1
    Working rage-aholic
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    The morals of hobbying: are we depraved?

    Before I say anything, I'm not here to preach to anyone. Right now I'm the last person to give a seminar on morality.

    But, ever since I admitted to myself that I'm a sex addict and compulsive hobbyiest, I've been doing some soul searching. I was talking to an old friend yesterday, and told him some of my recent experiences. My friend is older than I, and catholic: in moderation. He certainly wasn't shocked by anything I said, but at one point he called me depraved. He said it jokingly, and in the guise of advice, but he also said it with concern both for me and my slipping morality.

    My agnostic beliefs, or lack thereof, have allowed me to believe that if it's consensual and between two adults, anything goes. I'm not hurting anyone, right?
    Then I read Karma's story about her friend's father. She writes that morally, paying for and being paid for sex are equivalent. In general, I'd agree, but it's an oversimplification. I think most people here are respectful gentlemen. But there is exploitation in this industry (and every industry), and like it or not, it works both ways, depending on the sp and john. I know it would be hard for me to pick up a streetwalker and bargain on the rate and feel very good about myself.

    I'm not here to condemn or discourage anyone. I'm just thinking that he may be right. I, If not you, may be depraved. And if I'm depraved, is that such a bad thing? Is this just some middle class American morality rearing it's ugly head?
    Last edited by btyger; 04-15-2006 at 06:06 AM.
    Why are homely people discriminated against...we're the majority

  2. #2

    Depraved?

    btyger,

    Sorry to insert some levity into what should be a serious discussion, but I think of myself more as deprived rather than depraved.

    As for your discussion, I think we should all just live by our own morals; to attempt to do otherwise would leave us frustrated (in all senses).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by chefplus
    btyger,

    Sorry to insert some levity into what should be a serious discussion, but I think of myself more as deprived rather than depraved.

    As for your discussion, I think we should all just live by our own morals; to attempt to do otherwise would leave us frustrated (in all senses).
    Excellent point. It's easy for people to judge others...just check out what Eager Beaver just wrote on Karma's thread on all of us who open up these discussions. He basically says I am single and unlike many of you, I have no hang-ups of paying for sex so I do not partake in your discussions. Good for you buddy!

    >>btyger,

    It is not a matter of being "depraved" but a lot more about being "deprived". Sex is a natural part of a relationship and lack of sex hinders you, your partner and your relationship.

    Most of us are very decent guys who just need sex. It's that simple. We also enjoy the company of a fine lady. If you both respect each other and not try to manipulate each other, then enjoy it.

    I think Americans are bombarded with this moral crap and many of you are finally realizing that in life, there are many shades of grey.

    GG

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Karma
    Btyger,

    What I wrote comes from a man I met. While we were in bed, he'd yell at me "whore,whore " and you know, those kind of stuff...
    Yes, the typical idiot who gets off by putting women down to make him feel better about himself. These are the idiots that should be permanently banned by all SPs around the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karma
    When I come home after working, I don't find myself rubbing my body with javel in the shower. Or crying. Or having pain downthere. When I feel bad, I explain the situation and stay home. If I am hungry, I take a break and eat something. If I need to go, I go home.

    Read : I respect myself. It's not depravation. I would feel depraved if I had to work against me, like being raped night after night. Or giving all the money to a pimp and getting 30$ as a reward of being a good girl...

    I heard very often clients saying : I'm glad I was with you, I feel I contribute to your education, and so to the society! ...
    You should always respect yourself because if you don't, people will walk all over you. I like the way you think.

    GG

  5. #5
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    The following are exerpts of a thank you emails:
    What a wonderful evening Ronnie! No way to thank you properly. I can't wait 'til our next meeting...
    Thanks for a wonderful evening. I still can’t believe how we clicked.
    Looking forward to seeing you again soon.
    I woke up feeling just completely content. Thank you for a memorable evening
    Nobody can tell me that what I did was not a good thing.

    Ronnie,
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    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  6. #6
    incognito_NYC
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    Traduction, S'il vous plait?

    [QUOTE=Karma]

    " Tu sais, je suis aussi une pute que toi. Celui qui tient les sacs est aussi coupable que celui qui met l'argent dedans..."

    Karma .... your English is much better than my French, I must say!

    Could you translate that last part of the story? I feel like I'm missing the end of the movie and don't know how the story ends.
    - Incognito_NYC

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=incognito_NYC]
    Quote Originally Posted by Karma

    " Tu sais, je suis aussi une pute que toi. Celui qui tient les sacs est aussi coupable que celui qui met l'argent dedans..."

    Karma .... your English is much better than my French, I must say!

    Could you translate that last part of the story? I feel like I'm missing the end of the movie and don't know how the story ends.

    Translation:

    "You know I am as much of a whore as you. He who holds the bag is just as guilty as he who places the money in there."

  8. #8

    Morals?

    Eat, drink, sex, all natural instincs. It is society that dictates sex is to be restricted in this way or that. How many times has these rules changes in our own life time? How many times has these rules changed in the last 100 or 1000 years? It is one man that inflicts his own morals on anyther man.
    To make a point, how many empty churches do you see in Montreal these days, I know of one intersection where in all 4 directions you are able to see a church. It was not in the too distant past where the majority of people went to church every Sunday. Society frowned on those that did not go to church at that time. Today almost no one goes to church because the morals of our society today do not label us as Godless paegans, and the catholic churches stand empty.
    Last edited by J. Peterman; 04-14-2006 at 02:50 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman
    It was not in the too distant past where the majority of people went to church every Sunday. Society at the time frowned on those that did not go to church at that time. Today almost no one goes to church because the morals of our society today do not label us as Godless paegans, and the catholic churches stand empty.
    Good point J Peterman, we are a secular society with secular values and conservative institutions like the Catholic chruch are going to struggle to keep the numbers they used to capture, especially in developed countries. That is why they're expanding in poorer countries...for now.

    But I do see another clash, not between Muslims and Judeo-Christians, but between the new Christian Right and the secular society in the US. This clash is on-going and will shape the US in years to come.

    GG
    Last edited by General Gonad; 04-14-2006 at 02:42 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Gonad
    ...just check out what Eager Beaver just wrote on Karma's thread on all of us who open up these discussions. He basically says I am single and unlike many of you, I have no hang-ups of paying for sex so I do not partake in your discussions. Good for you buddy!

    GG
    Sorry General, but I have to agree with Eagerbeaver on this one. I'm single as well, and see sp's occasionnally for various reasons, but don't feel the need to question myself afterward on whether I'd be immoral, depraved or guilty for having done so. I only kick myself if i spent too much money for it, but that's another story.

    I think he's probably right when he states it's mostly guys who are married, or seriously attached that have second thoughts about their dabbling, and well you all should...After all, at the risk of being judgemental, most of you are doing this behind another person's back, instead of being upfront about it. You all wouldn't be human if you had not misgivings on your actions at all.

    Besides, i like reading all about it. The human mind is a fascinating thing.

    I look at it this way: I'm a healthy human male, and like everyone else I need to have sex occasionally as part of my genetic code. I'm not in a committed relationship right now, so to fulfill my basic needs i could either go to a local bar and pick up a girl, always a crap shoot if it's going to be a good experience. Believe me that happens, as I'll be in bed with someone who just lies there and doesn't get into it at all...

    Calling up a bedbuddy is another option, and if I feel something specific, I'll call up one of my favorite sp's and we try damn hard to make our limited time together something special, intimately and emotionally...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Karma
    What I wrote comes from a man I met. While we were in bed, he'd yell at me "whore,whore " and you know, those kind of stuff. I felt bit unconfortable with that, so at the end of our session, he looked me straight in the eyes and told me : " Tu sais, je suis aussi une pute que toi. Celui qui tient les sacs est aussi coupable que celui qui met l'argent dedans..."
    That guy has guilt written all over him but at least he's lucid and not afraid to admit it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Gonad
    Excellent point. It's easy for people to judge others...just check out what Eager Beaver just wrote on Karma's thread on all of us who open up these discussions. GG
    I have no idea why you keep bringing this up after privately saying you were not going to.......I just stated the fact that these threads regarding morality/guilt/relationships are largely driven and propelled by hobbyists who are cheating on their wives and girlfriends. THIS IS A STATEMENT OF FACT DUDE, AND IT IS NOT MY PROBLEM IF YOU CANNOT DEAL WITH THAT REALITY. You probably don't even know or have ever met the hobbyists involved in these past and present threads, as I have, including one retired hobbyist who wrote more about it than all of you combined.

  13. #13

    Are single guys really that much better off?

    Quote Originally Posted by shijak
    Sorry General, but I have to agree with Eagerbeaver on this one. I'm single as well, and see sp's occasionnally for various reasons, but don't feel the need to question myself afterward on whether I'd be immoral, depraved or guilty for having done so. I only kick myself if i spent too much money for it, but that's another story.
    Shijak, I made my peace with Eager Beaver and while I respect what you wrote, it just isn't as simple as all of you single guys think. Being married has a lot of ups and downs but you cannot just walk away, screaming "divorce" every time things aren't going your way. Of course we have doubts about dabbling in this but don't kid yourself, we also enjoy it or else we wouldn't do it.

    As far as you single guys are concerned, you may think you're not doing any harm to yourselves because you're unattached but the truth is that there is a potential of doing a lot more harm to yourselves than you think. If the only experience you have in terms of relationships is with SPs, YOU ARE FUCKED!

    Why? Because it's easy to meet a gorgeous babe for an hour or two, have amazing sex and keep on doing this, thinking "yeah, why would I want to commit?". Without truly committing yourself to someone, you'll never really grow as a person. You will find it very difficult to develop personal relationships based on love and mutual affection.

    So while it is easy for the single guys to judge us married guys, at least we have committed ourselves to our relationships and we are better people for doing this. We are struggling with our cheating but we know what a real relationship is all about - it ain't the fantasy world that you experience with your favorite SP.

    I have no doubt in my mind that my relationship will strengthen in the next year because I am committed to it and I learned a lot through this deviation in my life.

    GG

  14. #14
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    GG,

    i guess i wasn't clear enough...I do not pass judgment on you or anyone else here, married or not. i was saying that you guys had more on your mind as far as ramifications go than I do. Having another person sharing your life means that every choice you make will weigh even more deeply on you, the good AND the bad. The result is a lot of introspective threads in this section as all of you try to work things out...

    Being single is sometimes a good thing (I don't have to enumerate them, do I?), but to tell you the truth I'd rather be in a great relationship right now (D'UH!!!). But I won't do it to be in a relationship with a totally incompatible person. Been there, done that! I'm just finding myself in a period of my life right now where finding the , I won't say perfect, best partner for myself is more elusive than at other times in my life...

    (Hey, how did this conversation become about me?)

    Karma: hmmm....arretes de m'allumer!
    Last edited by shijak; 04-14-2006 at 04:13 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Karma
    I'm intelligent, wise, cute, rich, young. Single.
    You forgot to mention humble....

    Quote Originally Posted by Karma
    In life, there's a time for everything. I have to say I disagree with the way you stand to your point, GG.

    I'm not commited and you really don't wanna know with how much people I'm having sex a week. And never I've evolved so fast.

    I never said that you cannot evolve being single. I do not really care about the frequency of your sexual encounters. Having lots of sex has nothing to do with evolving as a person. I definitely evolved in my single life but I just feel that, from a client's perspective, if he only sees SPs, he will have a tough time being in a real long-term relationship.

    Karma, you are also going to evolve when you settle down with that special someone. It's not your time yet. Maybe you should hook up with shijak who is having a tough time finding someone compatible...

    GG

    P.S. Shijak, if you hook up with her, you owe me one cause man she is giving me the cold shoulder...ICE COLD!!!
    Last edited by General Gonad; 04-14-2006 at 04:39 PM.

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