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Thread: Double Standard

  1. #1

    Double Standard

    A recent thread about a popular MP - Borissa, raised the question of a rate increase.That is not the issue I wish to discuss here.

    Why the double standard? In over 30 years I have yet to hear or read that an SP ( strip club dancer,masseuse,HDH,etc) told or wrote that a service customer should underachieve financially.

    Granted that everyone is entitled to get the greatest subjective value for their money BUT everyone is also entitled to transact their time and skills for the greatest subjective return.

    Why single out the providers?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by eastender
    Why the double standard? In over 30 years I have yet to hear or read that an SP ( strip club dancer,masseuse,HDH,etc) told or wrote that a service customer should underachieve financially.
    eastender,

    Once again, your logic is impeccable. I do not understand clients who tell SPs or MPs what they should charge. I tell them my maximum and that is it. If asked, I can give them ballpark figures about what indies charge but I will never impose prices on anyone.

    GG
    Last edited by General Gonad; 05-13-2006 at 10:58 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by oliver kloseoff
    actually the monkey would probably do a better job than some of the professionals ive had over the years and be a little less hairy than some and more attractive than a few ivie seen as well
    oliver bad attitude kloseoff
    my opinion -like assholes we all have one
    Olie,

    Welcome back, I miss that witty humour of yours. Hopefully I will never run across one of these MPs, but if I do, I'll bring along some bananas.

    GG

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastender
    A recent thread about a popular MP - Borissa, raised the question of a rate increase.That is not the issue I wish to discuss here.

    Why the double standard? In over 30 years I have yet to hear or read that an SP ( strip club dancer,masseuse,HDH,etc) told or wrote that a service customer should underachieve financially.

    Granted that everyone is entitled to get the greatest subjective value for their money BUT everyone is also entitled to transact their time and skills for the greatest subjective return.

    Why single out the providers?
    eastender,

    WE are the clients,the custumers,WE go to her for a service.
    Have you ever had a sp/mp feel sorry for charging big bucks for her service ,be it good or lousy?
    Should we always shut up and put up?

    This is the first time I see clients defending a raise so agressively,it's like they're happy to pay more.
    Btw,I do have peoples who want me to underachieve,they are called bosses and clients.
    A 33% raise is IMHO unfair and unreasonnable.
    Anyway,Oliver said it best in his post,we never tell her what to charge,and she reads the board and posts under another handle.
    All we are saying is that we feel that a 20$ raise is too much,
    Did we murder someone?

  5. #5
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    If there is a price increase due to practical economics (high demand = higher prices), there should never be a problem with such an increase because it is nothing more than a market adjustment. I recall some years ago there was a significantly controversial thread when Asservissante, at the time one of the more popular LDL agencies, increased its fee for a 1 hour session from $140 to $160, which is currently the market price. Martin, the operator, posted at the time to explain that he could not continue to operate charging $140 because he was losing his best girls to other agencies. What then happened was that a number of the so-called "I want something for nothing" hobbyists chimed in, demanding that Martin reduce his own fee if he wanted to keep his girls, and some also suggesting a boycott of the agency was in order. Essentially these posters believe that agency operators and SPs should work for nothing in order to keep them satisfied as customers.

    Now $160 is the 1 hour market rate for an outcall escort.

    The simple response to anyone who complains about a price increase is that if it was in fact an artificial increase not based on the law of supply and demand, the market will cause an adjustment over time. The consumer will not pay the increased price if same or better quality can be found at the lower price, and the price will again be forced down.

    If, on the other hand, the price increase is based on a high demand for a provider, such as in some cases of LDL ladies moving on to HDH agencies, then the SP will work a bit less but be able to make a better fee for herself. There is one former LDL agency SP I know of who turned Indy, charged HDH rates and the demand for her services remained constantly high over the course of time. She is certainly entitled to charge that fee, or higher if she decides she wants to work a little bit less. The demand for her services remaining constant over time has proven that she is worth what she charges. As she gets older, of course, that may change.

    I have observed that most posters really don't understand or care about the bigger economic picture and the market forces that are at work here. All they really care about is what it is going to cost them. And the biggest complainers about price increases are usually those with either the least income or the least disposable income for hobbying activities (DIFHA). So this has to be taken into consideration in reading some of these posts.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 05-13-2006 at 12:32 PM.

  6. #6

    Great post

    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    The simple response to anyone who complains about a price increase is that if it was in fact an artificial increase not based on the law of supply and demand, the market will cause an adjustment over time. The consumer will not pay the increased price if same or better quality can be found at the lower price, and the price will again be forced down.

    If on the other hand the price increase is based on a high demand for a provider, such as in some cases of LDL ladies moving on to HDH agencies, then the SP will work a bit less but be able to make a better fee for herself. There is one former LDL agency SP I know of who turned Indy, charged HDH rates and the demand for her services remained constantly high over the course of time. She is certainly entitled to charge that fee, or higher if she decides she wants to work a little bit less. The demand for her services remaining constant over time has proven that she is worth what she charges. As she gets older, of course, that may change.

    I have observed that most posters really don't understand or care about the bigger economic picture and the market forces that are at work here. All they really care about is what it is going to cost them. And the biggest complainers about price increases are usually those with either the least income or the least disposable income for hobbying activities (DIFHA). So this has to be taken into consideration in reading some of these posts.
    EB,

    I have to say, that is a great post. I might be more left of center in my economic views than you, but I do agree that ultimately market forces drive most rates (except for monopolies). It should be noted that wages in the general population have not risen dramatically in the last decade. I suspect that intense competition from abroad in both manufacturing and now service sectors will keep a lid on wage inflation. This means that you cannot expect dramatic increases in the price of SP/MP services as long as wage inflation remains subdued. Any artificial mark-up in prices that are not taking into account actual market forces will be counter-productive.

    GG

  7. #7

    Smile Interesting .............

    Quote Originally Posted by General Gonad
    eastender,

    Once again, your logic is impeccable. I do not understand clients who tell SPs or MPs what they should charge. I tell them my maximum and that is it. If asked, I can give them ballpark figures about what indies charge but I will never impose prices on anyone.

    GG
    Interesting approach - effectively a convergence of their minimum and your maximum.A bit of wiggle room for both parties.

  8. #8

    Not Quite

    Quote Originally Posted by oliver kloseoff
    we were never telling her what to charge.
    she does read the board and posts under a handle.

    my 10 yrs experiance i stated my personal opinion
    50-1 hr for a standard massage and release is pretty much standard
    up to 60 in my opinion is acceptable norm for a standard massage with release.

    studios
    many of the girls get nothing as a salary and only get their tips so they are mroe or less forced to do otions with a handjob as the start.

    a person who actually goes to a massage school there is 2 levels
    practitioner and massage therapist-i researched this and somewhere have all my notes
    to get the latter one would incure a $9000 cost--do you think any of these girls who work studio and private put this money out or were they on the job trained

    as well the girls who go to school and get the degrees have to pay tax on their salery and of these otehrs who are on the board are in a cash business--so $60/hr under the table is a prety good salary and no education is required-a bottle of oils and a good grip for the finish

    i could blind fold the clients and train a monkey to do this and the cost would be a banana per clinet which is more than a lot of girls get in studios =zip salery
    actually the monkey would probably do a better job than some of the professionals ive had over the years and be a little less hairy than some and more attractive than a few ivie seen as well
    oliver bad attitude kloseoff
    my opinion -like assholes we all have one

    So if the provider was $20.00 below this standard rate you would have posted and told her to raise her rate? Think not.

    Basically the provider feels that her services are such that she is not afraid of a $20.00 competitive window that will benefit her competition.

    Her training and whether she gets welfare or other issues do not matter.

  9. #9

    Underachieve/Overachieve

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo
    eastender,

    WE are the clients,the custumers,WE go to her for a service.
    Have you ever had a sp/mp feel sorry for charging big bucks for her service ,be it good or lousy?
    Should we always shut up and put up?

    This is the first time I see clients defending a raise so agressively,it's like they're happy to pay more.
    Btw,I do have peoples who want me to underachieve,they are called bosses and clients.
    A 33% raise is IMHO unfair and unreasonnable.
    Anyway,Oliver said it best in his post,we never tell her what to charge,and she reads the board and posts under another handle.
    All we are saying is that we feel that a 20$ raise is too much,
    Did we murder someone?
    Bosses want you to overachieve WHILE underpaying you - big difference from your position.Clients want the best possible service/price ratio and to be in a position of synergy with the supplier.The lowest price for a product is worthless if the product is not available when you need it.

    To put my point in the context of your post,all that I am asking is did the SP
    tell you or would she tell you to remain in the position that you are so obviously unhappy with?

  10. #10

    Marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by oliver kloseoff
    i dont know anyone who gets a 33% increase
    A typical jar of instant coffee will range in price from $2.99 - $6.99 for the same brand depending on the chain and the weekly marketing cycle.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastender
    A typical jar of instant coffee will range in price from $2.99 - $6.99 for the same brand depending on the chain and the weekly marketing cycle.
    Except that there is no one who will go:''yeah they are right on about this increase,I agree with it,if brand A is charging 5$,why wouldn't brand B do the same?''
    Borissa(we know she's reading and posting under different handle) and all other mp's must be LAO right now,reading that clients are willing to pay their 33% without any resistance at all,some even justifying it for her!
    Next thing they will all adjust and raise their fees.
    Like Oliver said a 60$/hour under the table is already quite ''reasonnable''.
    Sorry eastender but my bosses and clients won't be too happy if I ask a 33% raise in the flick of the switch.
    But there are no boards for them to complaint about,unlike this one.
    So I'm just using wathever tools available to get my point across.

  12. #12
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    Daringly,

    Agree with you 100%.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliver kloseoff

    a person who actually goes to a massage school there is 2 levels
    practitioner and massage therapist-i researched this and somewhere have all my notes
    to get the latter one would incure a $9000 cost--do you think any of these girls who work studio and private put this money out or were they on the job trained
    3800$ for Practitioner - 400 hours of class
    5700$ for Massage Therapist - 600 additional hours of class
    200-300$ for school books per level.
    400+ (not including tax) $ For massage table so you can practice at home.
    120$ (not including tax) for bolsters and a blanket for the winter
    70$ (not including tax) per set of fitted sheets. (need at least 4)
    12$ (not including tax) per bottle of massage oil (I'm almost done with my 3rd bottle and I still have 2 months of that 400 hour class left)

    ^just in case someone was wondering why I'm poor and not reviewing right now
    Inherited Will, the destiny of an age and the dreams of its people. These things will not be stopped.
    As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom. They will never cease to be.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    All they really care about is what it is going to cost them. And the biggest complainers about price increases are usually those with either the least income or the least disposable income for hobbying activities (DIFHA). So this has to be taken into consideration in reading some of these posts.
    I agree with all of your post except this. Some people have plenty of available funds, but are simply cheap. The cheapest person I know is worth around $30 million. He'll argue over the price of anything. I think he enjoys it. He was raised poor and now he can never have enough money. It drives me nuts.

    I hate it when I hear people, rich or poor, complain about price gouging. In this case, hobbying is an extra, a luxury item. It's not food, or shelter. (On that note, I don't hear people pissing and moaning about the dramatic rise in real estate prices in the US in the 90s)
    If you don't like the prices, stop using the service. This is the basis of capitalism. When a service or item can no longer sustain a certain price, prices either come down, or the industry goes out of business. It's no different here. She'll either have demand or not.
    I don't know much about indies, but don't many SPs who turn indy effectively do the same thing? Charge more and work less?
    Why are homely people discriminated against...we're the majority

  15. #15

    Personal thresholds...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daringly
    A recent example for myself is Miss. Beatrice of fks, i had intended to see her on my next montreal trip, she was charging i do believe $550/2hrs and she now has put her prices up to $700/2hrs. Even though i can easily afford that it has passed my personal threshold of what i am willing to pay, but i could not possibly be upset with her putting her prices up if other clients are willing to pay the new fees. If people won't pay she will drop her prices. That is how things work.
    Daringly,

    I agree with you, if you cannot afford someone, don't bitch about her prices, just avoid her. Now, the case of Beatrice is another story. Like you, I can also afford her but I have a personal threshold of $400/2 hours. Nonetheless, I recently saw an amazing young lady who I paid $500 for two hours ($450+ tip) and I didn't mind since I knew she was well worth it. I also once paid $500 for an incall which was simply an incredible experience. I did not tip her and felt bad but after some reflection, I felt her $500/2 hour rate is enough. After a certain point, tips become a joke when dealing with independents that charge these above average rates.

    But if you keep making exceptions here and there, you risk becoming impervious to price increases. I still value my money so I will try to discipline myself to stick to my threshold. If I notice that I am way out to lunch with this threshold, or that I cannot book the type of women I am looking for, then I will review it or just stop altogether. It's that simple. I do not go to a Ferrari dealership to try and bargain down the price. The market is the market and we all need to deal with our financial constraints and/or thresholds. Like anything else in life, you need to be disciplined when "hobbying."

    Finally, Lion Heart has told me that if you become an FKS member, which I haven't yet, then you can get $100 off the encounter. But still, I think FKS would be better off by just sticking to a $500/ 2 hour threshold. That is my opinion but they will not do it.

    GG
    Last edited by General Gonad; 05-13-2006 at 03:07 PM.

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