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US Supreme Court Strikes Down Federal Law Prohibiting Sports Gambling

EagerBeaver

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This is a big win for federalism, as embodied in the 10th Amendment to the US constitution, for the State of New Jersey, and for Chris Christie:

Supreme Court strikes down sports betting law, giving states go-ahead to allow betting https://es.pn/2KkbH06

As a major fan of the 10th Amendment, I applaud the Supreme Court’s decision. It’s basically similar to the rationale underlying Roe v. Wade.
 

sharkman

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Big news indeed, the law struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court means that sports betting will become legal in the U.S.

The potential average market size from different estimates is about US$75M to $100M!

This is going to lead to major investment opportunities. In fact, in some asset classes the opportunity started today! Any law changes / tax changes in the U.S. always leads to investment opportunities in the sectors most impacted. For investors you just got to do your homework.

Happy hobbying...and happy sports betting! :eyebrows:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...-to-make-money-from-sports-betting-2018-05-15
 

CaptRenault

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This is a big win for federalism, as embodied in the 10th Amendment to the US constitution...

As a major fan of the 10th Amendment, I applaud the Supreme Court’s decision. It’s basically similar to the rationale underlying Roe v. Wade.


EB, you must have flunked your course in constitutional law in law school. You are correct in stating that the basis for the recent SCOTUS decision is the 10th amendment ["The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.]

But the basis for the SCOTUS decision in the Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion, was the 14th amendment, not the 10th amendment: "The Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion..."

Some would argue that the 10th Amendment could serve as a basis for leaving the abortion question to the states.

In any case, I agree that the Court ruled correctly in the gambling case. Like a lot of issues that are not specifically addressed in the Constitution, the legality of sports gambling should be left up to each state...along with a lot of other things.

However, it may be a while before you can actually place a bet on a game. New Jersey and a few other states are ready to launch sports gambling ventures ASAP but most states are not as eager to do so. They will watch what happens elsewhere, study the issue and take more time. Some states will probably never allow it.
 

EagerBeaver

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Again missing the point Captain. I said a similar rationale- I never opined on the specific legal basis of Roe v. Wade but rather the end result, which is the same: State has the right to legislate on abortion, State has the right to legislate on sports gambling. Your post came out of the inner recesses of your ass and not out of anything I said. Roe v. Wade has long been viewed as an example of the Supreme Court upholding the principle of federalism and if you had even a whiff of legal education you would know this.

Although it struck down a State law prohibiting abortion on 14th amendment grounds, it reiterated that States can regulate abortions based on the term of the pregnancy. Effectively, no federal abortion rights were created (the subsequent decision in Planned Parenthood v Casey eliminated the trimester analysis), although a privacy right was recognized as being infringed. The end result goes back to the 10th amendment. And the preemption doctrine. The reason the Texas law got struck down was due to being violative of the 14th amendment. Texas was allowed to continue regulating abortions, however, and still does, based on the 10th amendment. That is the bottom line. So, it is in fact a similar rationale: there is no federal right, to either have or prohibit abortion in all circumstances, or to sports gamble or prohibit sports gambling in all circumstances. The States get to legislate and regulate in these areas.

Some would argue that the 10th Amendment could serve as a basis for leaving the abortion question to the states.

Uh, it was left to the States. The federal government does not regulate abortions. Have you ever read Roe v. Wade??????? Most states have legislated legal abortions out of existence without running afoul of Roe v Wade. All the Court did was give the States a roadmap for regulation, a roadmap that was later updated. Just because there is no blanket ban doesn’t mean the States have not figured out ways to restrict abortions without running afoul of Roe v. Wade as modified by Planned Parenthood v. Casey, to make them available only in extremely limited circumstances.
 

CaptRenault

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...State has the right to legislate on abortion, State has the right to legislate on sports gambling...Effectively, no federal abortion rights were created (the subsequent decision in Planned Parenthood v Casey eliminated the trimester analysis), although a privacy right was recognized as being infringed... there is no federal right, to either have or prohibit abortion in all circumstances, or to sports gamble or prohibit sports gambling in all circumstances...it was left to the States...Most states have legislated legal abortions out of existence without running afoul of Roe v Wade. All the Court did was give the States a roadmap for regulation...

Your claim that "...Most states have legislated legal abortions out of existence..." is ridiculous. There are a number of states that would like to outlaw abortion but they cannot do so because the SCOTUS has decided that a woman has a fundamental constitutional right to abortion under the implied right to privacy supposedly found in the 14th Amendment (though the word "privacy" is nowhere in the Constitution). Any state that has tried or would try to outlaw abortion has had or would have the law easily overturned by the SCOTUS.

The fact that 10th Amendment allows states to regulate abortions is of secondary importance. They can regulate but they cannot ban.

On the other hand the SCOTUS decision on gambling did not rule that there is a fundamental constitutional right to bet on sports. It just said that it is a question for the states to decide one way or another-legalize or ban it. A state cannot ban abortion but it can ban sports gambling.

If the Court had based the abortion decision on the 10th Amendment, then it would have maintained the status quo at the time, i.e. that abortion is a question for the states to decide and the Constitution has nothing to say about it. Abortion was already legal in NY when Roe v. Wad was decided. It probably would have eventually been legalized (and regulated) in many other (but not all) states.

If the gambling decision were similar to the abortion decision as you suggest, the SCOTUS would have ruled that states cannot ban sports gambling (just like they can't ban abortion) but they can just regulate it. It would be fun to have the SCOTUS rule that there is a fundamental constitutional right to gamble on sports...and smoke weed and pay for sex. Maybe we'll see that someday. :lol:

These are two different decisions based on different parts of the Constitution.
 

EagerBeaver

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States cannot ban abortions, but they can place such restrictions on them as to make them impossible to obtain for the people who realistically should have an abortion of an unwanted child that is only going to be a ward of the State. That is the reality. If you actually read the decisions I alluded to, especially the “undue burden” standard (which the States get to decide what that is), and look at what States have done to regulate abortion, Roe v. Wade as a practical matter changed very little. Rich people who can pay for abortions can get them- they could get them before Roe v. Wade and can get them now. The people who really need abortions or should have abortions have, depending on the State they live in, significant restrictions in doing so. The bottom line is that while States cannot ban they can onerously restrict, and most have done so. I pay attention to what is actually happening as opposed to what everyone assumes is not happening.

My constitutional law professor said about this (and other) decisions, "don't watch what they say. Watch what they do." What he meant was the practical import of the decision after the smoke cleared on all the constitutional rhetoric.
 

EagerBeaver

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the SCOTUS has decided that a woman has a fundamental constitutional right to abortion under the implied right to privacy supposedly found in the 14th Amendment (though the word "privacy" is nowhere in the Constitution).

This is an incorrect statement of law. There does not have to be "privacy" spelled out in the Constitution if the US Supreme Court already held that there was such a privacy right. This is called the principle of stare decisis. The US Supreme Court in fact held that there was such a privacy right in Griswold v Connecticut, decided 8 years earlier, and once that precedent was established, the US Supreme Court was bound to follow it based on the principle of stare decisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut

"Although the Bill of Rights does not explicitly mention "privacy", Justice William O. Douglas wrote for the majority that the right was to be found in the "penumbras" and "emanations" of other constitutional protections, such as the self-incrimination clause of the Fifth Amendment. Douglas wrote, "Would we allow the police to search the sacred precincts of marital bedrooms for telltale signs of the use of contraceptives? The very idea is repulsive to the notions of privacy surrounding the marriage relationship." Justice Arthur Goldberg wrote a concurring opinion in which he used the Ninth Amendment in support of the Supreme Court's ruling. Justice Byron White and Justice John Marshall Harlan II wrote concurring opinions in which they argued that privacy is protected by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment."

Thus the Court in Roe v. Wade was compelled to follow this precedent and did so correctly. They in effect followed the concurring opinions of Justices White and Harlan in Griswold, rather than Goldberg (9th Amendment) or Douglas (5th Amendment). That case is a landmark decision taught in every constitutional law class, and is also notable as the greatest legal case precedent that ever came out of the State of Connecticut.

No new rights were created by Roe v. Wade. The same privacy right that was found in Griswold, was recognized to apply in Roe v. Wade. It really has nothing to do with abortions, per se. But rather freedom from unwarranted governmental intrusions into personal privacy. In case you did not know, that is what the Bill of Rights is all about and was written to address in the first place.
 

CaptRenault

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...There does not have to be "privacy" spelled out in the Constitution if the US Supreme Court already held that there was such a privacy right...

I understand that. I'm not arguing against the idea of a "right to privacy" being implied somewhere in the Constitution and probably in more than one place (such as the 4th, 9th and 14th Amendments). Furthermore, this right is fundamental and it underlies decisions such as the ones legalizing abortion and gay marriage. (I wish that the SCOTUS would similarly discover that the right to privacy also applies to all consensual sexual relationships including those involving the exchange of money. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. :rolleyes: )

However, I am arguing that the sports gambling decision is based simply on the 10th Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." In other words, if the Constitution doesn't mention the topic, then leave it up to the states.

The effect of the sports gambling decision is completely different from the effects of the rulings on abortion and gay marriage. With the abortion and gay marriage decisions, those practices were instantly legalized (though still subject to reasonable regulations). With the sports gambling decision, if a state doesn't not take action to legalize the practice of sports gambling, then nothing changes in that state.

States cannot ban abortions, but they can place such restrictions on them as to make them impossible to obtain for the people who realistically should have an abortion of an unwanted child that is only going to be a ward of the State....

Would you care to elaborate on the idea of "...the people who realistically should have an abortion of an unwanted child that is only going to be a ward of the State." :rolleyes:


 

EagerBeaver

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Would you care to elaborate on the idea of "...the people who realistically should have an abortion of an unwanted child that is only going to be a ward of the State." [/SIZE]:rolleyes:



This goes back to my point about the 10th amendment and why this regulation has been left to the States. Abortion may be feasible or even desirable when a woman is raped, or has a pregnancy that is unwanted and unforeseen and also imposes a financial burden on her that she cannot shoulder. In such instances, the child that is born will likely be a ward of the State supported by you and other taxpayers who pay for Medicaid and other State aid programs for such an aid-dependent child. Removing the impediments to abortions in such a situation honors the wishes of the mother, and eases the burden on the State. Seemingly a win-win situation and one that the States should have the right to legislate on. The government in such a situation should not be restricting abortions and should be able to remove the impediments if they wish. If not, then you and the other taxpayers will pay for the child's welfare and will act as surrogate parents.
 

CaptRenault

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...In such instances, the child that is born will likely be a ward of the State supported by you and other taxpayers who pay for Medicaid and other State aid programs for such an aid-dependent child. Removing the impediments to abortions in such a situation honors the wishes of the mother, and eases the burden on the State. Seemingly a win-win situation and one that the States should have the right to legislate on...

I don't think of abortions as a "win-win situation" (they seem more like lose-lose to me). We already have 650K+ abortions per year in the U.S. (not including California which does not report abortion data to the CDC). Rather than have governments spend more money subsidizing abortions for poor mothers, maybe government should use that money to facilitate adoptions of "unwanted" children. Just because a child is born to a poor mother doesn't mean that the State must pay to raise it.

I'm also not in favor of government granting itself a monopoly on any kind of gambling, such as many states do with government run lotteries. Consumers would be better served by private businesses running gambling operations. Would you rather bet on an NFL game with the State of Connecticut as your bookie or the Westgate in Vegas? I'll take Vegas any day.

Or in the unlikely event that the SCOTUS discovers that the right to privacy covers prostitution and legalizes it, would you rather go to a brothel run by the State of Connecticut or one run by Madam Alex? :D
 

EagerBeaver

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Americans don’t want to adopt American children. I know a few people who have adopted children and they went to Russia and Europe to do so. They spent a small fortune as well. It would be nice if there were loving adopted parents for every unwanted child, but it’s not a reality nor close to one. I know an attorney who is specialized in juvenile law and advocating for children who have been taken away from their parents by the State due to abuse, neglect, living in horrid conditions and authorities were called by neighbors. What ends up happening to those kids is almost never a happy ending. In most of those cases the expedient of abortion would have saved the child from a miserable existence, and the State authorities from the burden of being Ward to an unwanted child. There is way too much of this that people do not see because they ride on high horses into their cloistered and comfortable suburban homes, where they avert their eyes from the realities of what’s going on in the streets. People like you, the cloistered ones, do not smell the coffee because they never were in a coffee house.
 

CaptRenault

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I think it's time to return this thread to the original topic.

Here's a good article from the NYT on how the legalization of sports betting might impact the market for sports on TV. In sum, it should increase interest in live televised sports (which has been lagging lately):

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/sports/sports-betting.html
 

CaptRenault

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So which states (besides Nevada) are most likely to be the first ones to offer legal sports betting? The Washington Post answers the question as follows:

Where will you be able to bet on sports first? These five states are the most likely options.
5/15/18
wpost.com

...New Jersey

The Garden State did the heavy lifting that led to Monday’s ruling, enacting a number of laws that challenged the constitutionality of the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of 1992. So that state is more than ready to get the ball rolling. Monmouth Park, a racetrack on the Jersey Shore, has been waiting for this day since 2013, when it constructed a sports bar that can be converted to a sportsbook, and there are plans for a separate Las Vegas-style sportsbook on the property. Dennis Drazin, the CEO of the company that operates Monmouth Park, told The Post’s Rick Maese that the track could be taking bets in as short as two weeks, with “a possibility we could be ready sooner,” and ESPN’s David Payne Purdum reported Tuesday that the track is targeting May 28.

The track already has established a partnership with William Hill, a British betting company that also has a sizable foothold in Nevada’s sports-gambling operation. But what about the Atlantic City casinos, which have been hurt by the expansion of gambling to nearby states in the Mid-Atlantic? The Borgata announced in November that it would be constructing a sportsbook, and the Ocean Resort, the replacement for the doomed Revel that is slated to open this summer, has plans to open one, as well...

...Mississippi....Pennsylvania...West Virginia...Delaware...

Also: Connecticut...New York...Iowa.
 

EagerBeaver

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You will see it at the Connecticut Casinos (Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods), for sure. They are immune from State legislation as they are sovereign Native American nations with their own constitutions, and civil laws (including torts law, employment law and civil procedure). With the exception of the State penal code, Connecticut cannot regulate or interfere with anything that happens on those reservations (in exchange Connecticut gets a 25% cut on the slots). My guess is that as between those two nations, it happens with the Mohegan Tribe first, because they are already playing MANY college and WNBA basketball games in that arena and I believe the Celtics have played some exhibition games there as well. It's a smallish but high quality sports and concert arena venue. I saw UConn play a game there last year. Good acoustics.
 
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