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Saudi messing with Canada

jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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I will side with a country that respect women (and their intellect and beauty) over any middle ages countries still stuck in beliefs that women are men's puppet. Anytime!
 

cloudsurf

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May 10, 2003
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I side a 100% with Canada but unfortunately Canada can do very little in this case unless the US and Britain will side with us...... and that won`t happen.

Saudi Arabia doesn `t need Canada but Canada could use investments from the Saudi`s. So this is a no win situation for our pathetic government.

Governments have back channel diplomacy (just like merb….lol). This could have been done without stirring up the shit.
 

Doc Holliday

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Sep 27, 2003
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Disgusting!!!!

Saudi Arabia crucified a man in Mecca while aggressively calling out Canada over human rights

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia put a man to death on a cross in the holy city of Mecca on Wednesday, while waging a public relations battle to call out alleged human rights violations in Canada.

The execution came during a deepening dispute between the two countries sparked by Canadian criticism of how Saudi Arabia is treating jailed activists.

The crucified man, Elias Abulkalaam Jamaleddeen, stood accused of murder, theft, and attempted rape, according to Bloomberg.

Saudi Arabia, ruled by its interpretation of Islamic law, rarely carries out crucifixions, but capital punishment remains common.

Crimes such as attending anti-government rallies and homosexuality have contributed to crucifixion sentences in Saudi Arabia in the past.

Wednesday's death sentence for Jamaleddeen coincides with a new Saudi state media push to attack Canada's human rights record as an escalation in a growing feud between the two distant countries.

Canada on Monday called for Saudi Arabia to release women's rights campaigners detained in the country, which prompted a harsh response from the kingdom.

Saudi-owned media blasted Canada for arresting a holocaust denier and other citizens. TV pundits brought up Canada's suicide rate in what appeared as a broadside against the country's way of living.

The absolute monarchy ruling Saudi Arabia tightly controls the media broadcast within its borders and its foreign policy messaging.

Saudi media took a decidedly dark turn on Monday when it appeared to threaten Canada with a 9/11-style attack by tweeting a harshly worded infographic with an image of an airliner flying towards Toronto's skyline.

Diplomatically, Saudi Arabia's Foreign Ministry responded to Canada's call to free the women's rights activists as "blatant interference in the kingdom’s domestic affairs."

The ministry went on to threaten vague retaliation against Ottawa.

"Any further step from the Canadian side in that direction will be considered as acknowledgment of our right to interfere in the Canadian domestic affairs," it said.

Saudi Arabia immediately suspended new trade agreements with Canada and expelled its ambassador. It stopped medical treatment of Saudis in Canada and made arrangements to bring home Saudi patients.

Saudi scholarship recipients to Canadian universities were ordered to other countries. Saudi Arabia's airline suspended flights to and from Canada, potentially complicating travel plans for Canada's Muslim population as the annual Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca approaches later in August.

But Canada has remained firm. Canadian Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland, whose tweet sparked the hostility, said that "Canada will continue to advocate for human rights and for the brave women and men who push for these fundamental rights around the world" after Saudi's response.

"Canada stands together with the Badawi family in this difficult time," she tweeted on Friday, referring to the jailed women's rights activist, "and we continue to strongly call for the release of both Raif and Samar Badawi."

But the UK and US, two countries that maintain close ties with both Ottawa and Riyadh, have remained relatively silent.

The US State Department issued a vague statement calling for Saudi Arabia to respect due process, and said it would comment on the kingdom's human rights record in an annual report on human rights around the world.

The UK also expressed "strong" support for human rights, and said it "regularly" raises concerns with the kingdom, but did not mention the specific case of the Badawis.

Saudi Arabia, under the new leadership of young Mohammed Bin Salman, has undertaken a number of reforms to fight radicalism, and improve human rights and economic prospects for the country.

Salman did grant women the right to drive, but they remain legally in the care of men.

Saudis crucify man
 

EagerBeaver

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Jul 11, 2003
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It is really pretty simple, Saudi Arabia is sending a message not to meddle in its domestic affairs, not just to Canada but to the rest of the world. I think they view the west as promoters of instability within their country. The fundamental difference between Saudi Arabia and countries like the USA and Canada is that there is no separation of Church (or Mosque) and State. We have secular governments, whereas most of the Muslim world (of which Saudi Arabia is the leader) does not. These types of criticisms are received very sensitively because they go to the core difference between the secular and non secular government models.
 

jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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Patron,

It'll never happen. Saudi Oil is too readily available and the lineup to buy it doesn't end. They wouldn't care if the West boycotted their product as the East would gladly buy more. If Canada was smart (at the government level) they would set things up so that we wouldn't NEED to buy foreign oil and we are in the top 5 for oil reserves in the world. The U.S. will never boycott Saudi oil because of their interests in the region.

JTF2

Totally agree with all your points... Unfortunately ;)

Let me tell you in all of this the ones that will suffer the most are the foreign students that were pulled off the country. These dudes will be missing the half naked young college girl down the montreal street haha For these young dudes coming to study here in Montreal or Toronto is their mecca!

Also will all the Saudi's who come to canada on business trip only to hit the clubs, strip clubs, escorts, etc etc.. Haha let me tell you when these guys hits our turf their values vanishes rapidly and they fucking let loose of everything they are not allowed to do at home ;)

Cheers,
 

Doc Holliday

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Canada cannot yield to Saudi Arabia's deranged overreaction

by Iyad El-Baghdadi, CBC News

Back in March, Saudi Arabia's powerful crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman (popularly known as MBS), went on a two-week tour throughout the United States, shaking hands with Hollywood elite, media personalities and politicians.

As University of Denver analyst Nader Hashemi noted at the time , MBS was trying to change Saudi Arabia's optics problem, given the frequent beheadings, the brutal war in Yemen and ongoing activism for human rights in the country. The charm offensive on 60 Minutes and meetings with Oprah and Bill Gates were supposed to change all that. MBS spent years and billions to present to the world an image of a bold, shrewd, yet responsible reformer.

The celebrities who met him would be forgiven for embracing him back then, when he still seemed somewhat credible. But MBS has since persecuted the country's leading women's rights activists, intimidated the once-vibrant Saudi feminist movement into silence, corrupted and shut down his country's once-dynamic public sphere and hunted down every last independent voice for human rights in the country.

When Canada's foreign ministry spoke out, then — first via a tweet from Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland, then from the foreign ministry's Twitter account — it wasn't in a vacuum: it came as Saudi authorities targeted two of the last independent Saudi women's rights activists in the country, Samar Badawi and Nassima al-Sada.

"Canada is gravely concerned about additional arrests of civil society and women's rights activists in #SaudiArabia, including Samar Badawi. We urge the Saudi authorities to immediately release them and all other peaceful #humanrights activists" the ministry tweeted. Canada was right to speak out.

MBS has been trying to convince the world that Saudi society has been regressive and backward, and that he alone will drag it into the 21st century. This image indeed speaks to certain Western prejudices about Saudis, but it's not entirely accurate. Saudi society has changed deeply over the past few decades, and while regressive forces are still influential, there are many talented, responsible, highly educated and world-conscious Saudi women and men who are more than capable of being at the helm, as their country's governance catches up. Unfortunately, these are exactly the people MBS has targeted with arrests. Canada was right to speak out for their fundamental human rights and call for their release.

But this is where things got bizarre. In response to Canada's statement, the Saudi regime's reaction seemed more deranged than firm. The Saudis expelled the Canadian ambassador, put a stop to new trade and investment, barred their citizens from receiving medical treatment in Canada, instructed their overseas asset managers to dump their Canadian assets "no matter the cost" and recalled 15,000 students from Canadian universities, jeopardizing their education. By any measure, it was an overreaction, which left most analysts confused. After all, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights used similar language in the weeks prior, but MBS didn't sever ties there, nor did he recall his ambassador to the UN.

So why Canada and why now? There are at least two reasons to note.

First, there is speculation that MBS's move was a calculated attempt at deterring foreign criticism as he attempts to bring Saudi society in line with his new vision . The argument, pushed by some Saudi-paid lobbyists, is that he needs to do this in order to assuage regressive elements in society. But even if this response was, in theory, a convincing deterrent, the bungling way in which Saudi media reacted – calling out "Canadian human rights abuses," for example – shows more laughable incompetence than national pride.

Canada is perhaps a Western country that Saudi Arabia could take aim at, as a signal to other countries who may wish to speak out about human rights in similar ways. Canada was a safer target economically, as the Saudi state has extensive trade deals with both the U.K. and the EU, while the U.K. benefits from hundreds of billions of pounds spent by Saudi tourists . It is almost certain that MBS watched U.S. President Donald Trump's recent trade spat with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and saw an opportunity to hit at a liberal Western country, and appear to be standing up for "national sovereignty."

Second, and at a more profound level, MBS is worried about effective social movements in Saudi Arabia. As this audio alert from May explains , the regime wants to pose such reforms as the lifting of the driving ban as a gift from a magnanimous reforming monarchy, rather than the result of 25 years of defiance, activism and consciousness-raising by two generations of Saudi women. If the reform is seen as a victory for grassroots activism, two things could follow: it may spawn ever-more political rumblings internally, and these activists could form alliances globally, become media stars and be spurred on by countries pushing universal human rights – like Canada.

If Canada folds, some fear that a line would be drawn in the sand, and behind that line, petty Arab dictators could do what they want with their activist communities, without as much as a complaint from the world. This is exactly what these dictators want: to snuff out the last voices of dissent in their countries so that they can hear no voice but their own.

The prospect of international solidarity with native human rights activists is so deeply threatening that taking a sledgehammer approach to some tweets from the Canadian foreign minister seemed, to a fresh and inexperienced MBS, completely justified.

Canada cannot yield to Saudi Arabia's deranged overreaction
 

sambuca

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Sep 9, 2015
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I'm a bit late to this thread, but lots of interesting thoughts flying around. I don't believe we need to be respectful of the Saudi's non-secular culture if it violates basic human rights and is barbaric. The problem is in world affairs you have to pick your battles. Frankly, there are too many battles to fight.

I think JTF2 made a point that basically the Saudi oil would go somewhere if there was a Western boycott. Oil is fungible. If the Western nations don't buy it, China and some others will buy it. It will just move around the globe.

The U.S. has been in bed with Saudi Arabia since the beginnings of the Arabian-American Oil Company (Aramco) in the 1930s. Then there's that little matter of choosing Saudi Arabia over Iran as the lessor of two evils. So basically the U.S. won't be much help.

The realist in me fears that if the Saudi royal family was toppled, what replaced it would be far more oppressive, brutal and possibly an exporter of terrorism.
 
Dec 8, 2010
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The Saudi family is trying to show the Arab world that they are still in control. They still have a lot of influence and power, but it is fading and they know it.
 
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