The importance of kissing...

Jali,

Perhaps my experience is not representative I will not argue that, as I can only speak about what I have experienced, not the 99% that I haven’t met lol.

You say I only meet elite escorts, if you are referring to service, kindness and being fabulous women to spend time with then I agree with you, they are elite.
The only 20 year olds that I have been with which is easy to see from my review is Julia and Katrina Girl they are both fabulous at DFK and one has already mentioned that she thoroughly enjoys DFK amongst other things.

I will of course never know as many as you as that is not my thing, I tend to look for a special connection and I am completely addicted to my ATF.
The ones I keep repeating with are not just companions, they are friends, it is not just about sex for me, I can have almost as much fun with having a bottle of wine and some pastries with them ( luckily that has never been the only thing we do).
I don’t know, I enjoy being with these women maybe this comes through to them and kissing all of a sudden becomes natural and not an issue.

i changed my wording Jal. I was shopping and hiding in a corner when typing

In my 6 years in this hobby I have never kissed an escort on the mouth except for Lydhia because she jumped on me and initiated DFK and shoved her tongue down my throat before I even had the time to shut the door to her hotel room. Personally I don't like it because it is too personal and intimate. It is only something I would only do with someone that I have a romantic relationship with. Perhaps I have a different mindset when booking an escort. I'm only looking for casual sex and am not looking to feel like I'm with a GF.

To some degree I can see why many here don't understand how some of us see kissing as more intimate than sex and to be honest it's a little hard to explain, but for many of us out there it actually is. Of course, physically, sex is the most intimate thing you can do with someone, however I believe that psychologically, many guys out there (including myself) prefer to separate love and lust unless they're with a loving partner and can do both. If I have sex with a stranger, including escorts, only the lust part interests me because I associate kissing a woman with loving that woman... That is just how I am. However I don't necessarily associate sex to love.

I can only speak for the experiences with the escorts I've seen of the past few years and most girls have told me that they would rather not kiss a client if given the choice because they find it too personal / intimate... basically for the same reasons. At the same time I noticed that these girls are not the top of the line professional escorts that we see on this board like Julia and Alyssa who truly love what they do and actually enjoy DFKing with their clients. The ones I see, typically offer quickies and last a few months or a year in this business because they realize that this line of work is not for them.

Check out this article. https://therooster.com/blog/how-its-possible-kissing-more-intimate-sex. It tackles well the notion of why kissing can feel more intimate than sex. As someone who does not engage in kissing with escorts, I felt that it did a good job of addressing the reasoning behind it.

P.S Julia, I have always told myself that I would see you one day and I still plan on doing so. Please please please do not take it personally if I ask for no kissing. I'm sure you're quite beautiful. However for me to have the hottest sex with you, I need to be in pure lust fuck mode. We can do pretty much everything else

It help when someone like lba express his opinion here as he is intelligent and always on target.

I understood about 2 years ago that strangely sp's more probably prefer to be spanked then french kissed. I know it sound perfectly crazy but it's the way it is. I will not name names but yes some girl did opened up to me and said they would last much longer in the biz if it was purely for the sex part. Without any need for intimacy. Some think they can have an intimate session on a 1h session with a new girl. To me this is crazy. I do not buy that shit. So like alex I just go for the deeds haha Like the famous Sonia told me... "Veux juste fourrer moé tsé!" haha I told exactly that the first time I saw that Lucy in St-Eustache... I only do 15 min safe cbj session with her but we have fun like hell! Why? Because on veux juste fourrer!! haha

Cheers,

cloudsurf said:

Jal, from my perspective your statement has no facts to back it up except maybe your own experience.
I don`t get it.....you are a good looking , funny and charming young man who seems to get the short end of YMMV when it comes to kissing.

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Cloud believe me I do not get the short end of YMMV Actually I would say I get the very high end of YMMV because I do not initiate any kissing!!!

Cheers,

p.s. How I look is not a factor. These girl don't care much about look. Thank god unless this hobby would not exists!

Jal, When I mentioned short end of YMMV I was referring to kissing only. But if you don`t give a shit about kissing then its a mute point.
You are right....looks usually don`t matter, but how you act always matters.

jalimon said:

I do not get the short end of YMMV Actually I would say I get the very high end of YMMV because I do not initiate any kissing!!!

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This has been my experience also. I tend to get very high mileage with the girls I see because I always decline DFK but always take the time to explain why. Once they hear my reason they admit that they only initiated DFK because they thought that this is what I expected and seem to share my reasons for not wanting to engage in it. When both parties are at their highest level of comfort, you will very high mileage. For me the encounter then shifts from GFE to FFE (Fuck Friend Experience), which is precisely what I look for in my encounters. For me and my fuck friends, there is a rule that we do not kiss. Only oral and fucking. When the kissing begins it can lead to emotional attachments and whatnot.

So when I book an escort, I make sure that the encounter is similar to a FFE. So far this has brought me nothing but wonders and some of these girls are my current fuck friends where no donation is exchanged. A short term amateur escort that does not enjoy kissing will give you the best service when she notices that you don't like it either (which seems like a minority of men on this board).

cloudsurf said:

Jal, When I mentioned short end of YMMV I was referring to kissing only.

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In order to measure if Jalimon actually gets the short end of YMMV when it comes to kissing , one would have to look at the girls that Jalimon has seen and read more reviews from other members. If the reviews indicate that the same girls initiate DFK on the other clients and not with Jalimon, then he would be getting the short end of YMMV. If, however, the reviews indicate that the girls typically do not initiate DFK, but rather that the client initiates it, then he is not necessarily getting the short end of it because he is choosing not to engage in, it which reduces his chances of getting DFK by default. But this is not due to YMMV.

Same for me. Close to, if not 100% of my encounters, girls have initiated DFK with me. I actually have to turn them down. If one looks at the end result, then sure I got zero DFK with these girls, which can be interpreted as receiving low mileage without context, when in fact it's the opposite.

Guys,

We are all different and look for different things.
LBA does not like DFK and looks for short lust sessions similarly so does Jalimon.

I usually book 90 minutes not because I need that much time for bedroom gymnastics but because I enjoy a bottle of wine and some conversation and I genuinely like the company of the women I see and I tend to repeat with.

Now you say that when you tell them you don’t like DFK the SP says she doesn’t either ... .mmmm what happened to not believing in lists or advertising and hearing what you want to hear. You think she will tell you that if you won’t kiss her you can leave.

Somehow I think that there are as many men that don’t like DFK and somehow think it is an emotional attachment and figure that it is ok to fuck somebody as long as you don’t kiss them , that somehow makes it ok or whatever, I can’t tell you because I love kissing.

I am quite happy with the women I see and I don’t believe it is my imagination that they enjoy kissing and if they don't well then they live up to their claim of providing an out of this world fantasy experience, and yes I consider them all elite escorts not because of the price or even their looks but their kindness and warmth and the way they are with me.

We’ve turned this thread from a chapter to a novel
Impressive with no clean up from mods
Interesting opinions on both sides

Fradi said:

I don’t believe it is my imagination that they enjoy kissing and if they do well then they live up to their claim of providing an out of this world fantasy experience, and yes I consider them all elite escorts not because of the price or even their looks but their kindness and warmth and the way they are with me.

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I think it’s a thin line between saying they don’t like to kiss at all
I don’t think they like to kiss on the first date. And definitely not dfk every random john they meet. But yes dfk with repeat clients is probably very enjoyable for an sp. especially if it keeps the john coming back

Flyingby said:

We’ve turned this thread from a chapter to a novel
Impressive with no clean up from mods
Interesting opinions on both sides

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That is because nobody is attacking anybody and actually I happen to like the guys I am disagreeing with and enjoy their posts and reviews.
I have disagreements on subjects in threads even with some SP that I have seen several times, that doesn’t mean that we don’t like each other or have to agree on everything.

Fradi said:

Now you say that when you tell them you don’t like DFK the SP says she doesn’t either ... .mmmm what happened to not believing in lists or advertising and hearing what you want to hear. You think she will tell you that if you won’t kiss her you can leave.

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Point taken.

However as human beings we are pretty good at observing body language, notice facial expressions and having conversations which leads us to reach certain conclusions. You seem to have great conversations with your ATF and I have no doubt in my mind that what she tells you is genuine and honest. One could argue that she is bullshitting her way through the conversation to get repeat business from you but I'm sure you can tell that she is being genuine. You cannot prove it but you can feel it.

My cases are no different. Although I don't spend as much time as you with them, we often stay and chat after our sessions about various topics including this topic and many have shared their true logical and honest feelings about DFK which I found to be very genuine.

I also think that it's imperative to remember that the type of girls I typically see are not professional sophisticated high end escorts. I typically TOFFT by browsing humpchies, leolist and look for girls who offer quickies. Many of these girls are young college girls looking to make a quick buck and leave the business within a few months because this industry is not for them. They are not necessarily passionate about their work so it's only normal that they might not be into DFK. For me it makes total sense.

laid_back_alex said:

My cases are not different. Although I don't spend as much time as you with them, we often stay and chat after our sessions about various topics including this topic and many have shared their true logical and honest feelings about DFK which I found to be very genuine.

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Your reasoning is just as valid as mine and I won’t disagree with you.

In the end we both find what we are looking for.
You don’t want DFK and are happy with short lust sessions.

I find the ones that like DFK ( or put on an amazingly convincing act) and prefer longer and repeat session and much more of an emotional and friend type connection. What can I say I have always been a romantic and have a tendency to fall for a gorgeous woman who goes out of her way to make me happy.
Does it happen with every SP I see, obviously not, but the ones that it does, man does it feel great and yes it will keep me coming back.

Over the years my tastes in women have changed and the same thing with my sex life in general.

There was a time where i preferred blondes over brunettes and redheads. Then later i realized that i must be attracted to brunettes more than blondes since most of my partners just happened to be brunettes. And later it didn't matter anymore. I loved pretty women as a while and whether or not they happened to be blondes, brunettes or redheads didn't really matter anymore. Same thing with height. At one time i preferred shorter women, then taller women and as time went on women of average height. Once again as i became more experienced and a veteran of the art of lovemaking a woman's height didn't really matter anymore. I loved them all!

When i dabbled in the hobby for the first decade dfk or even just plain kissing wasn't that important although three quarters of my partners enjoyed the kissing part. Don't get me wrong i really loved kissing but i'd enjoy it much more if it came naturally and not forced or having the feeling a lady would feel obligated to do it....as part of the role she was playing in her 'job'. I'd be as happy just getting into it and get into full blown intercourse minutes after an initial introduction. I loved spontaneousity as much as the next guy and wondered why older hobbyists i knew at the time made the kissing/dfk part so damn important and some folks i knew would refuse to see a lady if they heard she wasn't into kissing or much into it. "What's the big deal?", i asked. As long as FS is part of the game and you achieve your orgasm why the fuss?

But as i grow older and having gained tons of experience under my belt over the past decades an encounter with a lady has changed for me. While in my younger years i was more into the FS and orgasm part i'm now more into intimacy. The great feeling of being with someone of the opposite sex and often the fantasy of being with someone very pretty & younger who in a different scenario would likely not give me the time of the day and/or mostly look at me as simply a 'friend', a 'confidant' or 'an older man'. Sure, most of us are aware that this is only a fantasy that we're paying for, after all....and that it has a time limit. But if having to pay to get some good dfk and TLC from someone half our age or more.....why not? And as strange as it may sound coming from me.....a middle-aged man who's been with hundreds of women over the years.....intercourse isn't even that important anymore. Been there, done that. Done more, actually. Great experiences, great memories. But life goes on and life isn't really a merry-go-round.

Now i get it.

I wonder. How many of you guys who say are amazing kissers would just love to passionately dfk a 60-70 year old woman.
I can introduce you to some of my moms friends

Patron said:

You are placing the male brain into the female head when you make that statement.

There have been studies that show females are relatively more aroused by conversation and touching during sex, and males are relatively more aroused by visual stimulation
.

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You are right about this Patron.
But don’t most SP say that they are exactly like guys. In that they are driven-by sex. Thus having a male brain?

Great thread, it's clear that there are many different kinds of guys and many different expectations when seeing an SP.

For me, I'm in my 60s and very appreciative of banging pretty 20-year olds (or even teens!) but I have no pretensions that they actually look forward to kissing older guys. I'm not looking for a deep emotional connection because I'm in it for the sex (hence why I rarely repeat) BUT I enjoy sensual kissing, feel it's an essential part of foreplay for me, and would always mark down a review of services if it wasn't included. That said, I love Montreal because of the consistency of GFE in agency girls - I can count the number of times I've been turned down for DFK on 2 fingers.

For those of you asking about other places where DFK is standard (Spain and Brazil were mentioned), I would include Mexico (in Guadalajara I had GFE experiences that rivalled Montreal), Colombia, Hong Kong, and Shanghai. But again, no where rivals Montreal for quality of girls (especially my type - young, petite, natural tits. I've noticed that my type is much harder to find in Toronto) and quality of GFE.

I must say that I get really good mileage and feedback, in part because of sensual kissing and appreciating the girls. Whether it's good acting or they actually enjoy the kissing doesn't matter to me.

Flyingby said:

I wonder. How many of you guys who say are amazing kissers would just love to passionately dfk a 60-70 year old woman.
I can introduce you to some of my moms friends

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I'd be more than willing to do it if they'd pay me $220-300 an hour to do so. And for that kind of money i'll even tell them with a straight face that they're great at kissing and may even be the best kissers i've ever kissed!

Flyingby said:

I wonder. How many of you guys who say are amazing kissers would just love to passionately dfk a 60-70 year old woman.
I can introduce you to some of my moms friends

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I hear what you are saying but back in the party days, I attended 5 GG/VIP parties and nearly as many pre-parties. I always ended up making out with an escort in the corner somewhere. I can think of 6 girls off the top of my head that I made out with at these parties and pre-parties and one twice. There were several others that I ended up paying for sex that night or later but not these girls I am thinking of. One was an older escort but the rest were young. Why did they do this if they didn't want to?

Maybe they know that I am a saver and investor and I also play the lottery and that one day they can claim that they were manipulated so they can say they gave their consent but really didn't give their consent and will sue my estate in court of law because they were a victim????

I just thought of two more...

Why did they do this?