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Thread: Aftermath from the war on Lebanon - Now what?

  1. #1

    Arrow Aftermath from the war on Lebanon - Now what?

    I read an interesting article from Gilad Atzmon suggesting that the latest war has jeopardized global Zionism. He also suggests that the fight in Lebanon will resume soon. Below, I copied a passage and a link to the article.

    "The recent victory of the Hezbollah therefore must be realized as a major event with some global implications. While the Hezbollah regards itself a paramilitary organization concerned mainly with some local issues having to do with Israeli expansionism, it has managed to cause a serious blow to neo-conservatism as a political praxis as well as a philosophy. It has beaten the Zionized Anglo-American worldview. Standing up to Zionism and Americanism, it is the Lebanese, the Palestinians, the Iraqis, the Afghanis and the Iranians who happen to be at the vanguard of the war for humanity and humanism. For those who are yet to be convinced that this indeed the case, I will mention that the fact that it is Iran who rushed to pay 3 billion dollars to rebuild Lebanon after the destruction made by ‘American interventionism’ leaves no room for interpretation. While America spreads destruction and death all over the world, it is Iran and the Hezbollah that offers a new beginning."

    Link to the full article:


  2. #2


    I'm amazed that even when we do nothing we are to be blamed. It is fashionable to blame Americans for everything wrong in the world nowadays, no wonder why more Americans are choosing Isolationism from the world. And for Hezzoblah to claim victory shows how much of an idiots those guys are. So let me get this straight you challenge a bully in the neighboorhood and you got you azz and teeth knocked in and you declare it a "victory" because you stand up agaisnt him. Bottom line is this for propoganda purpose you have to say it's a victory any way you spell it and any average day and on any sandlot YOU GOT YOUR AZZ KICKED, so a little sugar coating here and there makes the people in that region believe that they are the victor. So sad that it has to come to this. As for terrorism I think the best way to fight terrorist is with terrorist. Maybe we need to influtrate a few cells of our own, but instead of sucide bomber I think we are smart enough to bomb them without killing ourselves. Maybe we should bomb a few places that will kill a few thousands of people and claim it as a "holy Crusades" maybe this will open the eyes of the Muslims and maybe they will learn to live in peace. Muslims consider themselves as one cohesive community and what ever happens to the Muslims in Iraq vs. in Bosnia are one of the same. This is very admirable trait, but until they learn to live with their neighboors, i.e Isareal there could be no peace in that region. Mark my words it will just be a matter of months before they start to bomb the Unifel Troops in Lebannon , history is funny in repeating itself. The EU will have massive body bags from this region and maybe then they will realized that as much as we want to help and stop the suffering of humanitarian genocide that maybe its best to let them fight it out and who ever wins then so be it. When you have 1000's of years of hatred those who are involve can only solve their own problem any cease fire is a joke for them to re-arm and rest until the next conflict.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    wishing I was in Montreal

    Thumbs up Interesting...?

    Quote Originally Posted by General Gonad
    I read an interesting article from Gilad Atzmon
    First, this isn't an article, it is an excerpt from an anti-US, anti-Israel, anti-West blog. This website has been cited in other MERB threads and it contains no more facts now than it did before.

    Second, it is very easy to post links to other's ideas and then later claim that they weren't yours. Since you didn't post a disclaimer, we are led to believe that you are posting links to like-minded opinions as your own.



    You could only have 3 reasons for posting this;
    1) You agree with the article
    2) You disagree with the article, and want to cause a heated discussion
    3) You want to increase your Total Post Count & Post per day totals

    I think that you are intelligent enough, so #1 can't be true.
    From reading other posts, you are thoughtful enough so #2 is probably not it.

    You posted this on 8/3/06
    Quote Originally Posted by GG
    I am spending less time on Merb and I am going to distance myself from people on this board, not because I do not like them, but because I am spending way too much time discussing Merb and the hobby and to be honest, I find it frustrating reading and listening to some very opinionated posters. Moreover, these relationships are artificial. Yeah it's nice to chat about the hobby once in a while but do I really care what others think? No, I care about how I feel and right now - and I've had enough.
    and since then you have started 21 threads.

    I vote for reason #3.


    "No matter how sophisticated you may be, a large granite mountain cannot be denied—it speaks in silence to the very core of your being."
    -Ansel Adams

  4. #4

    Israeli PM on the hotseat...

    Given what is currently going on within Israel, I think it is INTERESTING to think about what the aftermath will be. It increasingly looks like the Israeli Prime Minister, Olmert, will resign given that most Israelis think they lost the war against Hezbollah. I predict that a right-wing hawk, maybe Netanyahu, will use this unrest to make his comeback. Stay tuned.


  5. #5
    If his sympathies lie with the "article", I think we have in our midst a candidate for the title of "Burkha King" (there is a restaurant chain of the same name in Afghanistan).

  6. #6
    Well Israel hasn't lost the military war against Hezbollah, but they have lost the psychological one, which is far more important to Muslim extremists. Israel's influence/power/superiority in the region is largely based on the invincibility of the IDF. That myth has been shattered (again) by Hezbollah. In that sense, merely by resisting and inflicting damage, they can claim "victory". And this isn't good news... And yes, Olmert is being criticized right and left and I woudn't be surprised if a hardliner like Netanyahu took over. Oddly enough though, Nasrallah has publicly stated that kidnapping the two Israeli soldiers was a mistake. Perhaps Hezbollah are feeling the heat in Lebanon for all the destruction they have caused.
    Last edited by JustBob; 08-29-2006 at 01:08 PM.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006

    make love not war

    Yes, I know, CLICHÉ! Well, I just can't help it. All this gets me pretty upset. I can't understand how people can talk about victory when people, innocent people, have died. no matter where they are from, or who killed them, they are human beings that did not deserve this. Going out to kill others as a revenge does not show better judgement and results in the same.

    I don't understand how a country like ours, who says itself to be the land of the free, and striving for peace can side for a country who has destroyed and killed. This governement is making me see how undemocratic the system has become, and how the rich and powerful do control everything.

    war will never be an answer. killing and destroying only results in no more resources and lost families. We all shit from the same hole so what's the fucking problem! accept yourself the way you are and accept others the way they are, we are all so different and all the same.



  8. #8

    Hizbullah's victory has transformed the Middle East

    Hizbullah's victory has transformed the Middle East

    The defeat of the regional superpower could yet open the way to a wider settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict

    George Galloway in Beirut
    Thursday August 31, 2006
    The Guardian

    As the smoke clears from the battlefield of the 34-day war in Lebanon, it would be a mistake to count the cost only in fallen masonry and fresh graves. All is changed, changed utterly, by the defeat that the whole of Israel is now debating, from the cabinet through the lively press to the embittered reservists at the falafel stall. Practically the only person in the world who claims Israel won the war is George Bush - and we all know his definition of the words "mission accomplished".

    Reports that the Hizbullah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, expressed regret this week at having underestimated Israel's reponse to the capture of two of its soldiers were misleading. In fact, Nasrallah thanked God that the attack came when the resistance movement was prepared, as he was convinced Israel would have otherwise invaded later in the year at a time of its choosing.

    If the fierce thicket of the Iraqi resistance stopped the Bush war spreading to Syria then the extraordinary Hizbullah victory has surely made the world think again about an attack on Iran. But the main - and maybe the most welcome - shift in the 40-year-old paradigm of the Israeli-Arab conflict is the puncturing of the belief in a permanent and unchallengeable Israeli military superiority over its neighbours and the hubris this has induced in Israeli leaders - from the sleek Shimon Peres through the roughhouse of Binyamin Netanyahu to the stumbling Mr Magoo premiership of Ehud Olmert.

    The myth of invincibility is a souffle that cannot rise twice. Over the past week I have picked my way through the rubble of Dahia in downtown Beirut, now resembling London's East End at the height of the blitz, and across the south of Lebanon in towns such as Bint Jbeil whose centres look as if they have been hit by an earthquake. Here the litter of banned weapons lies like a legal time bomb - evidence of war crimes alleged by the UN and Amnesty International that in a genuine system of international justice would put Israel in the dock at The Hague. This, together with the beating Israel has received in international public opinion, is the collateral damage suffered alongside military humiliation.

    Israel announced the capture of Bint Jbeil several times, but in truth it never held the town - or anywhere else for that matter - throughout the war. Despite raining down thousands of tons of high explosive on homes, schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, ambulances, UN posts, oil storage depots, electricity plants and virtually every petrol station south of Beirut (the bombers seemed to have a crazed thirst for petrol stations, while telling the world that they were kindly inviting the residents of south Lebanon to get into their cars and leave their homes for a little while), the Israelis were given a severe mauling by Hizbullah fighters when it came to boots on the ground.

    Paradoxically, some believe that all this has blown open a window in which it is possible to glimpse the possibility of a comprehensive settlement of the near-century-old conflicts which lie behind the recent war. Now that the status quo ante has been swept away, we may even see an FW de Klerk moment emerge in Israel (and among its indispensable international backers).

    The leader of the white tribes of apartheid South Africa waited until the critical mass of opposition threatened to overwhelm the position of the previously invincible minority, and sold the transfer of power on the basis that a settlement later, under more severe duress, would be less favourable. Israel's trajectory is now heading towards such a moment.

    A comprehensive settlement now would of course look much like it has for decades: Israeli withdrawal from land occupied in 1967; respect for the legal rights of Palestinian refugees to return; the emergence of a real Palestinian state with east Jerusalem as its capital - a contiguous state with an Arab border, with no Zionist settlements and military roads, and with internationally guaranteed Palestinian control over its land, air, sea and water. In exchange there would be Arab recognition, normalisation and, in time, acceptance of Israel into the Middle East as something other than a settler garrison of the imperial west.

    Just as you can't be a little bit pregnant, a settlement can't be a little bit comprehensive. Attempts - like the one more than a decade ago in Oslo - to obfuscate, shave and sculpt such a package to the point of unrecognisability will founder on the new reality.

    The Arab world is waking up to its potential power. It has seen the Iraqis confound Anglo-American efforts to recolonise their country, the unbreakability, whatever the cost, of the Palestinian resistance, and now the success of Hizbullah. If there is no settlement there can only be war, war and more war, until one day it is Tel Aviv which is on fire and the Israeli leaders' intransigence brings the whole state down on their heads. Nor is it only Israel that will pay the price for continued conflict: the enduring injustice of Palestinian dispossession has already poisoned western-Muslim relations and helped spill violence and hatred on to our own streets. There is still time to choose peace. But make no mistake, with the victory of Hizbullah, a terrible beauty is born.

    George Galloway is the Respect MP for Bethnal Green and Bow

  9. #9
    George Galloway? Hahahaha! Galloway is a loony who is constantly made fun of and ridiculed by the Brits and he has about as much credibility as Don Cherry.

    Exhibit A: Galloway on the British "Big Brother" tv show

    You might as well have posted an article written by Benny Hill.

  10. #10
    Enough already with the 'Hezbollah victory' bs. For them to win, Israel would have to have been destroyed. Last time I checked, it was still there. Israel did not win either as Hezbollah also still exists. Call it a stalemate.

    The important thing to consider is what will the UN do now. The Lebanese gov't has said it will not disarm Hezbollah who have also stated they have no intention to disarm. This violates the conditions for the ceasefire put forth by the UN. Unless the UN puts together a force to search for and destroy the Hezbollah stockpiles of weapons it will prove once again how impotent the UN actually is. Now that Iran has basically told the international community to go stuff itself in regards to nuclear developement, will there be sanctions imposed against them? Of course not because France and Russia will not go along with any strong sanctions. The UN is totally useless when it comes to enforcement of it's decisions.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman
    Enough already with the 'Hezbollah victory' bs. For them to win, Israel would have to have been destroyed. Last time I checked, it was still there. Israel did not win either as Hezbollah also still exists. Call it a stalemate.
    No it isn't bs. Defining "victory" solely as "total military victory" not only leads to an oversimplification of the situation but it also points to the refusal to acknowledge the huge impact that Hezbollah's (psychological) victory has now, and will have in the future, on events the region.

  12. #12
    Veteran of Misadventures
    Join Date
    Jul 2003

    How do you see it as victory when Hezbollah's own leader stated in a recent interview he would not have ordered the kidnappings of the Israeli soldiers if he had known what the response would be? That's the statement of the leader of the "victors"?

    By the way, would someone please tell when in the history of the world has the leader of a victorious army remained in hiding after the "victory"?

    This thread is pure bullshit.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 08-31-2006 at 06:49 PM.

  13. #13
    "Psychological" victory. See post #8.

    As for Nasrallah's comment there is no doubt that he's being criticized in Lebanon and that he's trying to calm things down. I think he's just being a smart politician and that this is mostly for local public consumption and that one shoudn't read too much into it.

    Furthermore, his statement was taken completely out of context. When he said that, he also said that he had evidence Israel was planning to invade in September or October and that the kidnapping only offered them a convenient excuse. He also claimed that by attacking prematurely the IDF was less prepared than they would have been in Sept/Oct, so things actually turned out better than they would have had the soldiers not been kidnapped.

  14. #14
    Nasrallah is an Iranian puppet. He leads an 'army' that wears no identification in battle so that they can disappear like the cowards they are into the populace. I'd like to see how they would fare in a real war against an Israel that has no other countries telling it to act in moderation. The ceasefire conditions will never be met and Israel will once again be attacked in the future. The next time I hope they don't hold back. Will there be terrible civilian casualties? Yes there will. War has to be horrible, the consequences have to be extreme. That's the only deterrent to having another war, the horrible result of the previous one.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005


    Gonad, where do you get this leftist propaganda? It is so is what they would like to be the reality, typical of liberals...Israel can never be toppled, it has the wisdom of the ages behind it.

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