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Thread: Self-defense and pepper spray

  1. #1
    Split thread from I`m WONDERING.... (Police report after an agression)


    Quote Originally Posted by Korbel
    Whoever this happens to the bottom line is it`s better to have some sort of ready defense and face the consequences for it

    With that kind of reasoning, then why bother carrying pepper spray? Why not carry a switchblade or a gun? (Btw, I`m in favour of CCW, but I recognize it`s illegal in Canada, so I don`t do it.)

    Anyways, I`m not trying to tell anyone what to do. If you think carrying a weapon is a good idea ("Better judged by 12 than carried by 6"), I won`t argue with you. I just wanted people to be clear on the law.
    Last edited by Mod 6; 04-09-2007 at 12:11 PM.

  2. #2
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    Kepler,

    I am in agreement with Korbel in his post above, and our agreements are rare. Had Samantha doused her assailant with pepper spray and somehow gotten prosecuted for violating that law, under these circumstances, I have to believe her punishment, if any, would have been token. I think you indicated in a prior post that there had been some acquittals in self defense situations. This is clearly a situation where Samantha would have been justified in spraying the face of her assailant with pepper spray. I only wish I had bought some for Samantha the last time I saw her so she could have defended herself.

    Be well Samy and talk to you soon!

  3. #3
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    Oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler
    With that kind of reasoning, then why bother carrying pepper spray? Why not carry a switchblade or a gun? (Btw, I'm in favour of CCW, but I recognize it's illegal in Canada, so I don't do it.)

    Anyways, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. If you think carrying a weapon is a good idea ("Better judged by 12 than carried by 6"), I won't argue with you. I just wanted people to be clear on the law.
    Hey Kepler,

    I wasn't giving you a lecture on the law, and no one said to carry a deadly weapon. Why move toward ridiculous exaggeration huh. Frankly I would love to see every gun in the world dumped into the deepest abyss. So try to avoid mistaken presumptions about what I mean. Draw back to the reasonable please. You were not under attack.

    Are you suggesting minimal protection is too much? Do you think people should avoid having any defensive option available? I was just saying no law should be allowed to make people defenseless. I thought your good explanation of the law was not an answer for a solution to abuse, and the real question was how to protect oneself. Between the choice of being punished for carrying pepper spray or being robbed, possibly beaten or worse, I would rather face the law than criminals without some basic non-lethal protection at least. Certainly you don't mean to tell Samy to take it like a good victim again if there are more instances just because some law may say she can't have pepper spray to protect herself? I know you don't mean or want that. So chill, get some sleep, write when you are less defensive.

    Peace...I hope,

    Korbel
    Last edited by korbel; 04-08-2007 at 02:24 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Korbel
    I wasn't giving you a lecture on the law, So chill, get some sleep, write when you are less defensive.

    I did not read your post as being lecturing toward me, and I wasn't aiming to be defensive in mine. If it came out that way, it's probably because electronic communications lack visual cues or because I'm less skilled in English than I'd like.

    As for protecting yourself, like I said, I favour CCW since mace/pepper spray is not that effective.

    And if I was going to carry something, then I'd opt for a Kubotan. Legal as far as I know (easy plausible denyability if not), always within reach (no need to rummage in a purse and aim, just keep it in your pocket or on a keychain), and much more effective when aimed at the head.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    Not correct. It's illegal to use on humans. It is not illegal to possess or be used for animal control (bears). Read the law that you cite.

    Thus it can be purchased. I would argue that if it is used in self defense against someone trying to rape you, it is in fact being used on an animal, and therefore its use is legal under the cited law.

    And as a practical matter, I doubt the maced rapist will go to the cops and file a complaint, so it is probably de facto legal to use in such situations.
    Yeah, except that one would want to report a disabled mugger to the cops, and then questions would arise as to how he got maced. A little pepper spray isn't going to dissuade a mugger from repeating the crime so much as a little stay in the hoosegow might. In fact, it might encourage him to be violent from the outset to avoid getting sprayed by his next victim, by disabling them first.
    You are cordially invited to toss my salad. There's an app for that!

  6. #6

    Smile Mace,Pepper Spray..................

    Following this thread and its mutation and frankly I doubt that Samy is the type of person who would use mace,pepper spray,etc. Self defence suggestions should be appropriate for the person involved.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastender
    Following this thread and its mutation and frankly I doubt that Samy is the type of person who would use mace,pepper spray,etc. Self defence suggestions should be appropriate for the person involved.
    yup. I recall reading a sefl-defense magazine somewhere long ago - the main thing tey kept repeating was, 'don't attack unless you have been attacked, if you are being mugged hand over your valuables and keep your eyes to the ground and your mouth shut'.

    seems like smart advice.
    You are cordially invited to toss my salad. There's an app for that!

  8. #8
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    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by eastender
    Following this thread and its mutation and frankly I doubt that Samy is the type of person who would use mace,pepper spray,etc. Self defence suggestions should be appropriate for the person involved.
    Hello Eastender,

    Yes, good point. I can imagine Samy being aggressive even in self-defense, though anyone can be pushed to it. So she will have to find some safety methods that will help insure against treachery. I just hate to see Samy become so business like that it may take some of her magical luster from an encounter with her. Yeah, some bastards can ruin things for everyone. If we catch them...let's cut their dicks off...lol...well...maybe we should.

    Samy fan,

    Korbel

  9. #9
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    When pushed in a corner, even a frail lady can become deadly if she know what to do. Even more since the attacker won't expect a strong response from a shorty. There's many ways a 5' 90 pounds can kill...

    A pen can be devastating when used properly. Those high heels siletto shoes can do same. A small fist thrown to the right spot can send a 6' attacker to the ground. Or the classical hit to the balls or fingers in eyes...
    When attacked, the surprise effect is your best friend. And ladies, if you feel your life is at risk and if you decide you won't go without a fight, give it all you got: you don't want to only hurt, because the attacker might still go after you. You need to incapacitate fully. If it means you might kill the attacker, so be it! Give it all you got! At that point, you need to realize it's him or you.

    It's a good idea for all ladies to take self defence training and, for our sp friends, they should consider it mandatory. And for those who do get trained, remember, surprise is your best friend when attacked so, don't tell anybody but close friends you're "trained".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastender
    ...Self defence suggestions should be appropriate for the person involved.
    I agree with Eastender ( for once )

    While it might be realistic for some well-trained, well-armed individuals to fight back when confronted by a violent individual, it is more often true that "The better part of valor is discretion."

    I feel very sorry for Samy, but I'm also glad that she was not hurt more seriously. A self-defense course may not be a bad idea for her and other girls, but it's equally important for her and others to think about how to take precautions to avoid such situations in the future.

    Since we don't know the circumstances of Samy's mugging, it's impossible to say whether she could have avoided this incident. But she can certainly examine her pattern and method of travel around town and perhaps take some steps other than arming herself with illegal pepper spray in order to better protect herself. Montreal is a very safe city, but bad things can and do happen there.

    Also, let's not forget Samy's main point, i.e., that she was not pleased with her treatment by the police after the incident. I think Eastender's suggestions about being proactive in documenting and seeking care for her injuries are good ones. She should also be aggressive about following up with the police and if she is not happy with her treatment she should complain to higher ranking officers in the police department.
    Strasser: By the way, the murder of the couriers, what has been done?
    Renault: Realizing the importance of the case, my men are rounding up twice the usual number of suspects.
    Heinze: We already know who the murderer is.
    Strasser: Good. Is he in custody?
    Renault: Oh, there's no hurry. Tonight he'll be at Rick's. Everybody comes to Rick's.

  11. #11
    Samy tu devrais prendre tes info sur ce site en ce qui concerne l'utilisation de poivre de cayenne www.clairejoly.org/laf/artpoivre.html

  12. #12

    Laws don't always follow "common" sense...

    There have been cases in Montreal were people have been robbed and when the person tried to protect himself/herself or his/her property, these people had charges laid against them.

    The 2 reasons where I've seen charges laid against the victim is:
    1) with what the police might consider "excessive force".
    2) if the assailant was trying to get away and the victim attacks the person when his/her life is no longer in jeopardy.

    There might be other reasons where the police actually arrest or lay charges against the victim but these are the 2 most common reasons I see on the news (mostly with depanneur owners/workers trying to protect themselves from crooks).

    This doesn't seem just/fair but police sometimes do lay charges against the victim.

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