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The Savior Syndrome

z/m(Ret)

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Client X's taking a particular liking to Mademoiselle la SP, repeated bookings ensue, everytime longer, everytime more intimate, with an increased degree of confidence and trust. Everything works fine but the next thing you know, Client X's starting to feel responsible for Mademoiselle, like he's vested suddenly with rights in her or like maybe he needs to fix her problems, provided that she's got any and if these would be any of his business.

So Client X turns into a control freak and soon enough he takes this all-too familiar appearance of nobilty which only serves to give good face to his irrepressible need to control. Conveniently: not only does he need to convince Mademoiselle that he's "doing good" but he probably also need to convince himself.

Throw in a bit of delusion and the mindset of someone on a mission and, tadaaa, Mademoiselle just found her S A V I O R ! :eek:

Ladies, Gentlemen, thoughts? anecdotes you wouldn't mind sharing? Are saviours dangerous? Do they have an economical value? :D
 
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EagerBeaver

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I don't suffer from the Syndrome but I know some hobbyists who do. There is no known cure for this Syndrome, which is a progressive but usually not fatal disorder. The best treatment is the constant reminder that only Jesus saves, and He saves only those who want to be saved. If necessary this should be written on a blackboard every day 50 times per day or until headaches ensue.:p
 

Turbodick

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Just Maria said:
Viva la libertad, amigos mios...!!! Je ne crois pas qu'un homme, qui qu'il puisse être, ne doive dire à une femme ( dans le sens d'imposer....) ce qui est mieux pour elle...I don't believe that a man ( any man...) have the rights to say what she have to do to a woman....Un peu de paternalisme là-dessous aussi je dirais.... I think that is a little paternalism in this attitude...Peut-être qu'il a raison pour certains points..Maybe he's right for few points...Mais c'est le(s) choix d'une adulte, quoi qu'ils soient..But, that's adult's choice(s) , what they are..... Il faut les respecter..Need respect..
Maria xxx
ps...difficile la traduction bonyeu!!! hahahaha...hard to tranlate.......????

Maria, I don't speak french but what you say comes thorugh clear.
I've only repeated with the same SP max 4-5 times and never felt responsible, but maybe I'm a heartless bastard. On the same note my barber makes me feel guilty if I've had my hair cut somewhere else, so go figure!
 

EagerBeaver

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Turbodick said:
On the same note my barber makes me feel guilty if I've had my hair cut somewhere else, so go figure!

Loyalty is very important to barbers!!!!!!!!!!! Years ago I had a barber who wanted to know where everyone in my office had their hair cut...........one time I went to a different barber with my father and had both are heads shaved, and when I saw my regular the next time he was deeply offended and insulted!!!!!! They believe they own your hair, once they have cut it...........
 

z/m(Ret)

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SP Saviors Support Group

OK people, time for a group hug! There, it will be alright, you all cry now...
 
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EagerBeaver

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Just Maria said:
I think that is a little paternalism in this attitude

Yes, but is being a straight sugar daddy any less paternalistic? Let's say a guy takes a lady "off the market" so to speak - the deal is, she does not work, and in return, he buys her a condo, a new car and gives her her very own American Express card to use, with a $50,000 credit limit. Of course, part of the deal will also inevitably include exclusive sex with the sugar daddy.

Is this any less paternalistic than the regular guy who just wants to save the SP from.............whatever? If so, how and why?
 

Fat Happy Buddha

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traveller_76 said:
....Key here is 'looking for someone to save'... à la Pretty Woman. Actually when I was first starting, an older SP (mid 30s?) told me that these clients started turning up after the movie came out (guess she'd been around a long time). They aren't that hard to spot... They want to 'help' you, finance you, get you out of the biz, get you through school, etc, etc.....

If you talk about Pretty Woman when discussing the Savior, then you also have to mention DeNiro's character in Taxi Driver. Travis Bickle (the lead character) probably expresses more realistically the loneliness and the volatility within men who are driven to "save" sex workers.

When I hear men talk about how they saved a sex worker, my main thought, between yawns, is 'gimme a break'. One can't walk down St. Catherine's without stumbling over some person sleeping in a box, but these guys opt to save an attractive woman who carries a five-hundred dollar handbag and has a drawer full of underwear from Victoria's Secret. How noble.

If any saving of a sex-worker is necessary, it should be done by other sex-workers and ex-sex-workers. They have the background knowledge and also do not act out of self interest. A sexual-service consumer who places himself in the role of counselor for a troubled young women is like a pedophile priest who takes charge of saving the soul of a troubled young boy. It is a recipe for disaster.

I actually have my doubts about whether any man can help a sex-worker with emotional problems. Most of the time, men are the problem. If a man really wants to spend his money helping sex-workers with their problems, he should make a contribution to an organization like Stella. They'll know how to best use the money and they will have a better rate of success.
 

YouVantOption

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Fat Happy Buddha said:
If you talk about Pretty Woman when discussing the Savior, then you also have to mention DeNiro's character in Taxi Driver. Travis Bickle (the lead character) probably expresses more realistically the loneliness and the volatility within men who are driven to "save" sex workers.

Perhaps, but Bickle was saving a child prostitute.

Also, comparing the complexities of a real-world life with the superficial snippets of a two-hour movie, even one as good as Taxi Driver, let alone as crappy as Pretty Woman is folly, at best. Life might be a Cabaret, old chum, but is sure as hell isn't a movie.
 

Fat Happy Buddha

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YouVantOption said:
Perhaps, but Bickle was saving a child prostitute.

Is there really much difference between an emotionally-damaged prostitute and a child? Besides, age was not a major issue in the relationship between Bickle and the Foster character. The key issue in the film was Bickle's obsession with her (as well as his obsession with everything else). The movie would not have been substantially different if Iris (the Foster character) had been 19 or 23.

YouVantOption said:
Also, comparing the complexities of a real-world life with the superficial snippets of a two-hour movie, even one as good as Taxi Driver, let alone as crappy as Pretty Woman is folly, at best. Life might be a Cabaret, old chum, but is sure as hell isn't a movie.

I agree with what you say about comparing real life with a two-hour movie. But is the relation between a sex-worker and a client real life? If it is, it is one of the most rudimentary forms of human interaction. It began millenia ago when females hung out along mountain paths, convincing cavemen on the way home from the hunt to give up a leg of antelope in exchange for sexual favours, and it hasn't changed fundamentally since then. Scorsese is probably giving a nod to this fact when Bickle has to buy Iris a hamburger to get her to sit down and talk with him.

If anything, the client-sex worker relationship doesn't have the depth or complexity to warrant a two-hour movie. Why do you think Scorsese had to add a presidential campaign, an assassination plot and a side-relationship with the Sybil Sheppard character? Even in Pretty Woman, Julia Roberts had to be shown shopping just to give her character added depth. By definition, any movie about a relationship between a sex-worker and a client should really only be an hour long, and that's if you don't cut out the twenty minutes of shower scenes.

Maybe one of the mistakes the Saviour makes is that he tries to turn into a full-length movie a very simple relationship that is best expressed by a thirty-second commercial spot. He forgets that when dealing with sex-workers, like in most relationships in life, the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid) is best applied.
 
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eastender

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A Man and His Antelope Are Soon Parted

Fat Happy Buddha said:
It began millenia ago when females hung out along mountain paths, convincing cavemen on the way home from the hunt to give up a leg of antelope in exchange for sexual favours, and it hasn't changed fundamentally since then.

Within the time frame mentionned the "leg of antelope" has been replaced by the "chocolate" bar as coin of the realm.Somewhat of an anti-inflation, anti-HDH trend and a tribute to the highly successful "Save the Antelope" movement.
 

YouVantOption

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Doc Holliday said:
Saviours are especially dangerous to themselves. If there is an economical value, it's probably to the person they're hoping to 'save'. ... I will ask my psychologist friend about this & i'll post his observations later. His views my differ from all of the views posted, including my own.

I would imagine that the saviour complex doesn't differ much from its manifestation in women who can't understand how they keep getting involved with men who cheat/beat and otherwise abuse them. Women who continually fall for the 'bad boy' personna thinking 'all he needs is the love of a good woman' usually end up in a bad way.

I can't imagine becoming anyway involved with a criminal, drug addict, mentally ill person or yes, prostitute without being entirely clear on one's personal lines of safe involvement. I've seen several friends through bouts of mental illness and addiction and at a certain point I simply cut bait to avoid being pulled into the thunderstorm of such an existance, and refuse to validate their behaviour. That said, I am always prepared to be there to support and encourage them during their recovery.
 

YouVantOption

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Fat Happy Buddha said:
Is there really much difference between an emotionally-damaged prostitute and a child? Besides, age was not a major issue in the relationship between Bickle and the Foster character. The key issue in the film was Bickle's obsession with her (as well as his obsession with everything else). The movie would not have been substantially different if Iris (the Foster character) had been 19 or 23.


I disagree. Age played a shocking point of reference as to the decay of the city, of urban life. remember when the film was released. In that context it was much much more a measurement of depravity than it is now; I'd guess that that was the first time child prostitution was noted in a popular film, indeed mention of such activities even in the press were rare as hen's teeth thirty years ago.

Fat Happy Buddha said:
I agree with what you say about comparing real life with a two-hour movie. But is the relation between a sex-worker and a client real life?

It depends. in the context of a one-hour date, clearly it is not real life beyond the rutting. But I thought what we were discussing is a relationship that extended in some manner beyond the normal 'wham bam, thankyou mam' encounter.

Fat Happy Buddha said:
If anything, the client-sex worker relationship doesn't have the depth or complexity to warrant a two-hour movie.

Have you heard of this new thing they have? it's called 'porno'. :rolleyes:
 

z/m(Ret)

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Equanimity said:
What's wrong exactly with being happy for them ?
You're missing the point. The savior syndrome extends well beyond what you're describing and is quite different in nature. We're talking here about a complex mental disposition, confining to pathology, which has been documented in the psychological literature. I'm no shrink but my sense is the savior would paradoxically not want to see the SP turning happy so that the process of "saving her" remains uninterrupted.
 

Fat Happy Buddha

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YouVantOption said:
I disagree. Age played a shocking point of reference as to the decay of the city, of urban life. remember when the film was released. In that context it was much much more a measurement of depravity than it is now; I'd guess that that was the first time child prostitution was noted in a popular film, indeed mention of such activities even in the press were rare as hen's teeth thirty years ago.

A good point. I was very young when the movie came out and actually only saw it for the first time a few years ago.


YouVantOption said:
Fat happy Buddha said:
If anything, the client-sex worker relationship doesn't have the depth or complexity to warrant a two-hour movie.

Have you heard of this new thing they have? it's called 'porno'. :rolleyes:

How many two hour porno films aren't a compilation of at least four separate encounters between different couples? Even then, the film-makers still rely on artificial means to create the impression of prolonged and repeated orgasm.
 

z/m(Ret)

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You talkin' to me?

Fat Happy Buddha said:
I agree with what you say about comparing real life with a two-hour movie.
Where Pretty Woman would qualify more as some commercial reactualization of the Pygmalion myth, Taxi Driver draws quite an instructive portrait of the Savior. Scorsese and De Niro's investigation into Bickle's psyche is thought out in ways we don't often see nowadays in movies. The epilogue also sheds an interesting light on the concept of "heroism": are heroes intrinsically deranged?

No representation of reality can possibly embrace reality itself though reality itself speaks of nothing if not represented. Sometimes, a two-hours movie, granted the distortions (isn't reality distorted the moment it's being represented anyway?), the approximations and limitations due to editorial constraints, says more about reality than reality itself, FHB makes a good job at suggesting that.
 

z/m(Ret)

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Elizabeth said:
If an escort has issues with her job (which seems to often be the case), I think the first step should be to stop seing her as a client. I find it a bit ironic when so-called savior pretend they want to help but still contribute to the problem...
I underlined "should" for emphasis as it appears to me that the savior would possess this somewhat unique capability to target (probably not all that consciously) escorts vulnerable enough to let themselves be manipulated that way. Questions are: is the SP capable of identifying the signs before she eventually gets caught to deeply in the savior's patterns? Or, isn't she not a consenting victim thriving on the immediate benefits and (wishfully) thinking she'll be able to put things in perspective should the situation get out of hands?
 

pookiebear

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superman becomes the Cat lady.

It's the Superman's complex and that a hobbyist is trying to save the world one sp at a time. This in itself is a vicious cycle because, if I may, it is similiar to let's say compare it to saving a stray. Adopting one cat is o.k , but having a guilty concious to adopt all the cats in the neighboorhood will result in one becoming that weird cat lady that everyone is talking about. Maybe this type of hobbyist is subconciously need love and affection and because of the lack of social skills or "game" he/she feels that he can buy the affection of an sp. Even if the hobbyist is getting a girlfriend who needs to be save the same issues and trouble water lurks in the end. This can be very dangerous as it becomes a dance of illusion on the relationship and highly artifical based on the amount of soap opera dramas that it creates.
We all have known the end results will be but for some people the challenge in the hunt is far better than the kill.
 

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traveller_76 said:
... all very different people, but all yearning for about the same thing I think. Acknowledgement. Recognition. I can help you. I am a good man. Compared to the 5 or so violent incidents I lived, 40 'saviours' is a significant number... t76

Interesting. You seem to hold the people who wanted to help you in any way in more contempt than you do those who perpetrated violence upon you, at least that is what I glean from what you wrote above.

I fail to see what is wrong about being nice to another person, but I guess that's just me; I was brought up that way.
 
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