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Thread: the coming north american union: quebec asleep

  1. #1
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    the coming north american union: quebec asleep

    unbelievably, the Parti Quebecois and Bloc Quebecois are not protesting against the new plan for the North American Union that would definitively erase Quebec's identity once and for all. see news about the planned protest against the summit for NAU in montebello in 3 weeks:

    http://www.psp-spp.com/?q=en

    why aren't enough canadians and quebeckers concerned about the take over of canada by the united states?

  2. #2
    I am not sure it would be bad for Quebec's identity. State's rights are given more respect in the US than here, my sense is that the US federal government is less controlling than the Canadian government. So I could believe that Quebec might be freer to do their own thing as part of the US. That does not neccessarily mean that I think that it is a good idea, but I don't think it would mean Quebec being shut down either. Personally, I would be more concerned about the religious influence in US politics.

  3. #3
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    It's an interesting idea, but it needs to be put to a democratic vote of the Quebec people. If Quebec decides in favor of joining the US, it would be required to ratify and accept the United States constitution and would have to be admitted by Congress. The procedure for admission by Congress is only vaguely described in the Constitution. I suspect Congress would not vote to admit, even if Quebec ratified the US constitution, unless it thought there would be an economic benefit to the USA.

    I would only object to Quebec becoming the 51st State of the USA if it ended up taking more than it gives economically. I don't want to end up paying higher taxes along with other Americans because Quebec does not provide adequate tax revenue to the federal government, an objection I hear being made by a lot of Canadian friends of mine. The problem you would have is that Quebecers are used to a lot of government entitlements that are not entitlements in the USA, anywhere. Like health care and other services that are not provided by the government.

    We would have to add a star to the flag to make 51 (doable) and of course we could eliminate the border crossings which would save some money.

    As far as language, the sign and language laws would have to be repealed, but I don't think it would be necessary to make either English or French the official language. Signs would have to be in both languages, recognizing the bilingualism of the province and the nativity of the English tongue in the other 50 States.

    Most importantly, making Quebec the 51st State would be good in terms of expanding our natural resource base. Also, once the FBI and INS installs offices Montreal, we can clean up some of the terrorist wannabes.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 08-07-2007 at 11:34 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equanimity
    One thing I know wouldn't survive the application of US constitution laws would be some of the current Quebec language laws.
    Correct, they would be held unconstitutional as violative of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment of the United States constitution.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 08-07-2007 at 01:01 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Equanimity
    I wonder if you would be allowed to keep french as an official language for example.
    Well, the official language of the State of Hawai'i is, if I am not mistaken, Hawaiian English. Hawaiian English has subtle difference with continental US English.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by danleo
    Well, the official language of the State of Hawai'i is, if I am not mistaken, Hawaiian English. Hawaiian English has subtle difference with continental US English.
    Not correct. Hawaii has two official languages, English and Hawaiian. If that was not the case, the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment would be violated as I already stated. Reference:

    http://www.alternative-hawaii.com/hacul/language.htm

    In Quebec, the options would be as follows: no official language, or two, if it was a US State and did not wish to offend the US constitution.

  7. #7
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    There was a marginal party who promote the idea in the late 1980. The result of their one and only election was kind of poor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_51
    Je sème à tout vent!

  8. #8
    After all these years of struggle, just to become just an American state?
    Puh-leeeeze!!!!!

    I was anti-Quebec-separatist in my youth, but now I support it wholeheartedly! I'm closer to the Quebec mentality (sans francais) than the American. If Quebec declared itself a separate country, and the rest of Canada joined America, I'd have to emmigrate to Quebec, or the EU (a nice nothern clime, like Sweden or Finland).

    I'd be a pro-Quebec, anglais bastard. I'd even run for Quebec Parliament.
    Hey, if they can accept a gay cokehead, they could accept an english speaking womanizer, non? What does it matter, as long as we're pro-Quebec?

    I want a North American France! Well, no formal association with France, but
    an ideal one (30 hour workweeks, drinking vino at cafes all night, cradle-to-grave welfare).

    I see a weird combination of Quebec, France, and Lenin.

    I'd try to learn french, but truthfully, I'd massacre it.

    You don't have to be francophone to admire Quebec.



    If Quebec ever reduces itself to becoming an American state, all is lost.
    Last edited by alfonso; 08-07-2007 at 08:29 PM.

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    every time i posted something, some u.s. government internet agent followed and posted b.s. to dilute the message. this time it's beaver again.

    the coming North American Union will happen through the Prosperity and Security Partnership, the automatic integration of North America, it is not a democratic process and will happen without votes or referumdum or things like that. it will just happen. quebec will become part of this larger union and get buried within it. it will not have to ratify the U.S. constitution or anything like that. in fact the u.s. constitution itself will cease existence. the North American Union will be ruled by a council of CEOs, neocon intellectuals, and representatives of military interests. that's all, and that's it. see the canadian action party website: http://www.canadianactionparty.ca/

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by volvo2006
    every time i posted something, some u.s. government internet agent followed and posted b.s. to dilute the message. this time it's beaver again. [/url]
    I don't work for the US government. I just posted the facts regarding statehood.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Equanimity
    C Dick are you sure that state rights are greater than provincial rights ? Any examples of what you mean?
    No, I am not sure. Perhaps it is a matter of approach. My perception is that in Canada, the federal government can override the provinces anytime that they want to, but that they often don't, particularly with Quebec, they are careful to not force things. But in the US, states have more rights to be able to make laws that the federal government have difficultly overturning, even if they want to. But I do not have an example.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by C Dick
    No, I am not sure. Perhaps it is a matter of approach. My perception is that in Canada, the federal government can override the provinces anytime that they want to, but that they often don't, particularly with Quebec, they are careful to not force things. But in the US, states have more rights to be able to make laws that the federal government have difficultly overturning, even if they want to. But I do not have an example.
    The Supremacy clause of the US Constitution:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
    1) During the Ruby Ridge siege, an FBI sniper shot and killed the wife of a white supremacist. Idaho filed murder charges against the FBI agent. These charges were dropped due to the Supremacy clause.

    2) Most states have laws banning anal sex. These were ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS (for non-commercial sex between consenting adults in private).

    3) South Dakota has banned abortion. It has yet to be seen if the feds will override this.

    Usually, for better or worse, the states lose against the feds.

  13. #13
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    BJB,

    Totally absent from and ignored by your analysis is the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution which states as follows:

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    There are only about a zillion cases which say that if the power is not expressly delegated to the US it lies with the States. The scope and gist of this jurisprudence is way beyond this thread and, frankly, way over the heads of most posters here.

    The abortion issue is one which very arguably falls within the ambit of power of the States and is not clearly a federal issue (IMHO, it is not a federal issue at all). Please show me where the power to decide the abortion issue was reserved to the US by the Constitution.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 08-08-2007 at 10:48 AM.

  14. #14
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    Not sure US can afford Quebec now.... Americans seem have a huge problem to pay their mortgage

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko26
    Not sure US can afford Quebec now.... Americans seem have a huge problem to pay their mortgage
    I don't think that North American union is a merger of some sort. It is extension of NAFTA with more integration. The union will create new infrastructure (eg., new highways that will directly connect Canada to Mexico via US) and allow Mexican truck drivers to drive to Canada on Mexican licence. There are issues to be ironed out. These issues involve sharing of information for security purposes (DUI cases) and making sure that trading parties understand laws of all three countries.

    I just don't see US acquiring any province of Canada.

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