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Thread: Can a massage with HJ be called prostitution

  1. #1

    Can a massage with HJ be called prostitution

    In a thead in the Montreal massage section the following conversation started and evolved https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread...399#post325399 . In order not to highjack that thread, with this question, I am posting here quotes of the pertinent intervention, I think the subject should interest many.

    Quote Originally Posted by YouVantOption
    Huh? Some girls do more, some girls do less, but it is all prostitution. Penetration doesn`t make it any more so than a handjob.
    Quote Originally Posted by apk
    I think there`s a line in there somewhere when "sex" plays an integral part in the session. If you were a virgin before you walked into Kama as opposed to PMC (and took the top option available at both places)... would your status have changed by the time you walked out?? MP and SP aren`t really the same (in my book).
    Quote Originally Posted by YouVantOption
    I`m outing you! "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" I knew Al Gore was in town, didn`t think his pal Bill was too.

    Sure. I agree with you. However, say you drive the hot teen babysitter home and she takes out her tits and give you a hand-job. Your wife`s best friend walks by. Do you think it is gonna fly in divorce court that it ws `only` a hand-job? Or if there is a bust?

    Of course sex plays an integral part of the session. I don`t find myself going to places offering men, or fugly women, too too often. I want a stone hottie to pull my pud for me, or hop on top if that`s what she`s into.
    So what do you think?
    A massage with HJ: prostitution? or massage therapy?
    Last edited by Luvs-mssgs; 04-06-2008 at 11:06 PM.

  2. #2
    No, a massage with a HJ is not prostitution. In Ontario it has been legalised and actual Massage therapy clinics offer it because men have a tendancy to get aroused during a massage which defeats the point of relaxing. It is actually legal.
    Prostitution is the act of selling sex services. HJ is not sex.
    Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning
    Satan shudders and says "oh Shit....she's awake!!"







  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy
    men have a tendancy to get aroused during a massage which defeats the point of relaxing.

    HJ is not sex.
    Hi Tracy,

    This reminds me of a little bit of summer theater I saw years ago where a sexy girl stepped forward on the stage and said:

    "Every time I relax with a man, he gets all tense."

    HJ isn't sex you say... could have fooled me... I'll have to stop enjoying it so much!


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee
    Hi Tracy,

    This reminds me of a little bit of summer theater I saw years ago where a sexy girl stepped forward on the stage and said:

    "Every time I relax with a man, he gets all tense."

    HJ isn't sex you say... could have fooled me... I'll have to stop enjoying it so much!

    well of course it is SEXY. legally though it is not concidered sex. I think in ontario they brought up a point of the mans penis being a muscle. you get a massage and a muscle tenses up, well, logically if you think about it....
    I think that is how they legalised it in all salons
    Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning
    Satan shudders and says "oh Shit....she's awake!!"







  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy
    No, a massage with a HJ is not prostitution. In Ontario it has been legalised and actual Massage therapy clinics offer it because men have a tendancy to get aroused during a massage which defeats the point of relaxing. It is actually legal.
    Prostitution is the act of selling sex services. HJ is not sex.
    Criminal law is a federal jurisdiction, not provincial !
    NOTE TO SELF:
    If I get my legal advice from an escort...
    maybe I can ask my lawyer for a TCIMWS
    (she -my lawyer- is quite a stunning woman)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Luvs-mssgs
    Criminal law is a federal jurisdiction, not provincial !
    NOTE TO SELF:
    If I get my legal advice from an escort...
    maybe I can ask my lawyer for a TCIMWS
    (she -my lawyer- is quite a stunning woman)
    I am not giving legal advice, I am just stating what I know to be true from experience in working at these places.
    I can guarantee that I will never make a remark unless I have expereinced the situation or have researched information from extremely reliable sources (doctors, lawyers and such.)
    I do not mean to be rude. I just felt that I should clarify that I am not giving legal advice persay.
    Also a TCIMWS is prostitution and actually no it is not illegal for a womman to sell these services.
    I am saying that a HJ is not prostitution.
    Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning
    Satan shudders and says "oh Shit....she's awake!!"







  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy
    I am saying that a HJ is not prostitution.
    I'm not sure if a HJ (or happy ending) at a massage parlor is prostitution or not but being caught in this act will probably lead you to being arrested/convicted for being "found in a bawdy house" even though no sex occured.

    Anyways, prostitution in Canada is legal... only solicitation, living off the avails of prostitution, and being found in a bawdy house are illegal.

  8. #8
    I'm not saying HJ is prostitution,
    but I'm not saying it is not sex either

    ((An american president was almost impeached for saying..."I did not have sex with that woman... " maybe he should have demanded the WS part from Monica... then all evidence would have vanished... But maybe he asked... and she refused because of the... calories ))

    all I'm saying is that:
    > if it's legal in Ontario,
    > then it's also legal across Canada
    > because criminal law is a federal jurisdiction,
    > not a provincial jurisdiction.
    ask any lawyer

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mazingerz
    Je me suis toujours demandé si c'était légal mais, dans le fond, au nombre de salon de massage érotique qu'il y a, si ce serait illégal, ils fermeraient tous
    Tout le monde roule a 120 sur les autoroutes et la vitesse légale c'est 100, c'est même écrit sur les panneaux...
    est-ce que si c'était illégal ils les arreteraient tous ?

    Est-ce que la police arrête tous les poteux de la rue Saint-Denis ou le cokeux de la rue Crescent? Ça n'est légal parce qu'il les laisse faire...

    Ça s'appelle de la tolérance pas de la légalité.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Luvs-mssgs
    all I'm saying is that:
    > if it's legal in Ontario,
    > then it's also legal across Canada
    > because criminal law is a federal jurisdiction,
    > not a provincial jurisdiction.
    ask any lawyer
    Not necessarily.

    If masturbating a client constitutes prostitution, then a massage parlour is a "common bawdy house" within the meaning of the Criminal Code.

    This question was at the core of a case in Ontario after the defendants were charged with operating a common bawdy house. The trial judge agreed with the defendants that the HJ didn't constitute "prostitution" and therefore the MP wasn't a common bawdy house.

    The decision to my knowlegde was not appealed - and until the Attorney General for Ontario wants to argue a similar case in a different judicial district of the province or take a similar case to appeal, that lower court ruling states the current law for Ontario.

    Were a similar case to arise in Quebec or BC, the defence would certainly raise the precedent of the Ontario case, but a Quebec or BC court is never bound to follow the reasoning of the Ontario court, even in federal matters. Only if a Supreme Court decision is handed down, or if Parliament amends the Criminal Code to define clearly what is meant by prostitution will the matter be clarified.

  11. #11
    OK, I think we've cleared up the legal issue pretty well, but what about the social meaning of a HJ?

    I would bet that a lot of masseuses justify giving HJs by telling themselves it's not prostitution. And a lot of clients go to MPs, and tell themselves that it's not prostitution, that they are not cheating on their SO, they are not paying for sex.

    And a lot of massage sessions go further than a simple HJ and both the provider and the client justify it as YMMV.

    But at some point sex is being exchanged for money. Maybe it's better that we kid ourselves about this. Most girls would never enter the business if we called it by it's real name. The same goes for clients. Pretending is half the fun.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy
    No, a massage with a HJ is not prostitution. In Ontario it has been legalised and actual Massage therapy clinics offer it because men have a tendancy to get aroused during a massage which defeats the point of relaxing. It is actually legal.
    Prostitution is the act of selling sex services. HJ is not sex.
    Hello Tracy,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_Sutra
    2. On sexual union Chapters on stimulation of desire, embraces types, caressing and kisses, marking with nails, biting and marking with teeth, on copulation (positions), slapping by hand and corresponding moaning, virile behavior in women, superior coition and oral sex, preludes and conclusions to the game of love. It describes 64 types of sexual acts (10 chapters).

    It seems that the Kama Sutra would include HJ and it`s characteristics in it`s chapters on sexual arousal. Now maybe when a guy simply sees a lady from a distance and becomes "stiff with arousal" that is not sex. But a lady performing a HJ to continue stimulating and maintaining arousal is sex. What you probably meant is the law does not define HJ that way.

    Cheers,

    Korbel
    Korbie: of the Boston Red Sox Nation...the NBA Champion Boston Celtics Pride...and...the New England Patriots Dynasty!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy
    No, a massage with a HJ is not prostitution. In Ontario it has been legalised and actual Massage therapy clinics offer it because men have a tendancy to get aroused during a massage which defeats the point of relaxing. It is actually legal.
    Prostitution is the act of selling sex services. HJ is not sex.
    please provide citations to prove this - newspaper articles, links to provincial law.

    I believe you are wrong, but am certainly open to the possibility that I am.
    You are cordially invited to toss my salad. There's an app for that!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy
    I am not giving legal advice, I am just stating what I know to be true from experience in working at these places.
    Just because you did it doesn`t mean it was legal

    Also a TCIMWS is prostitution and actually no it is not illegal for a womman to sell these services.
    I am saying that a HJ is not prostitution.
    no, but communicating the sale of sex services in a public place is.

    I`m not a lawyer, but that does put an interesting spin on speaking about such things in a place of business (which is not considered to be a private place), posting services on websites, and speaking on the telephone about pricing.

    I would be interesting to consult with a lawyer and have she or he review the entire transaction and give pointers as to what to avoid.
    You are cordially invited to toss my salad. There's an app for that!

  15. #15
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    What was the question?

    The question is, if I read well,
    Is a massage with HJ = prostitution ?
    NOT
    Is a massage with a HJ = legal ?

    Prostitution per se is not illegal in Canada
    only some of the aspects surrounding it are
    (sollicitation, bawdy house, but NOT the sex for money part...)
    So, back to the question

    Is a massage with HJ = prostitution ?
    I think not
    Would I like my S.-O. to find I have HJs with my massages
    I would not

    Is a massage with HJ = sex for money?
    I think not
    I pay the therapist to relax every muscle in my body
    And I tip according to the overall quality of her service

    Read the reviews, in the massage parlour section
    Many will refer, at lenght to the massage technique
    Hard, soft, medium, califonia, sports etc...
    The MP lovers are different from the SP seekers

    And if at some point in time,
    things take a different direction
    Less technical, more sexual,
    Well, that's the human nature

    So, I think a massage with HJ it is a legitimate massage therapy
    The penis is an integral part of the body
    A complete body massage should include every part
    From head, to head, to toe
    Last edited by Nemo; 04-07-2008 at 07:08 PM.
    =N=E=M=O=

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