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Winter tire law

master_bates

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May 23, 2005
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Can someone confirm the rumor I heard about how the law was

recently changed? Winter tires are now only mandatory dec 15 -

march 15 instead of november 15 - april 15.

Thx
 

Lion Heart

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master_bates said:
Can someone confirm the rumor I heard about how the law was

recently changed? Winter tires are now only mandatory dec 15 -

march 15 instead of november 15 - april 15.

Thx

That's indeed the new mandatory winter period under the current law project...it's not a law yet as they are still working on the definition of what a snow tire is...:rolleyes:

Lion Heart
 

EagerBeaver

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Lion Heart said:
That's indeed the new mandatory winter period under the current law project...it's not a law yet as they are still working on the definition of what a snow tire is...:rolleyes:
Lion Heart

Lion Heart, is winter going to cooperate with the law? Did anyone tell Mother Nature that there is not to be any snow in Montreal before December 15 or after March 15? What was her response and does she approve of this law?
 

voyageur11

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EagerBeaver said:
Lion Heart, is winter going to cooperate with the law? Did anyone tell Mother Nature that there is not to be any snow in Montreal before December 15 or after March 15? What was her response and does she approve of this law?
Winter start dec. 21 snow or not.What people call snowtire are winter tire made for snow and cold temperature.Better traction , handling, and braking power on cold or icy pavement. It is a law that make sense
 

Kepler

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master_bates said:
Winter tires are now only mandatory dec 15 - march 15

Yes. http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/pa..._hivernales/reglement_utilisation_pneus_hiver



Lion Heart said:
it's not a law yet as they are still working on the definition of what a snow tire is...

Law is in effect now, and a definition of winter tire is in effect. (see link above)


EagerBeaver said:
Lion Heart, is winter going to cooperate with the law?

The law is a minimum. You can of course drive with winter tires all year long if you want. Before this date, 4 season tires were allowed all year.
 

metoo4

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If only I knew...
Cars plated outside of Québec don't have to follow this regulation so, no problems for visitors.

EB, you should know better... With a law, any law, a line need to be drawn somewhere. This Dec 15th date relates to the time, in average, where temperature stay below -10C (4 seasons useless below about -7C) and to the average date where there's a durable snow cover. This is also to minimise wear on winter tires since these are made with a softer compound and tend to "melt" when used in higher temperature.

Driving with winter tires 365 day/year isn't a good idea. Winter tires have a lesser road handling on dry hot pavement than good quality summer tire, mainly because of the depth of the thread that make them more "wobbly" and because there's usually less thread in contact with the road, due to the pattern of the thread. On top of that, since they wear too fast in summer, it's a waste of money.
 

master_bates

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Thanks for the link Kepler

The majority of the cold and snow falls within december and march so it

makes more sense instead of starting in november till april.
 

JustBob

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I support this law but considering how little I use my car, especially in winter, it kindda sucks to have to spend $800for winter tires...

So I'm looking for used P185/60 R14 :)
 

voyageur11

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JustBob said:
I support this law but considering how little I use my car, especially in winter, it kindda sucks to have to spend $800for winter tires...

So I'm looking for used P185/60 R14 :)
Go shopping try pneu du president, canadian tire, or tirerack.com you ca get snow tire for $400 and less
 
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MG_mtl

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mazingerz said:
Encore trop de laisser-aller je trouve. Quand les visiteurs viennent chez nous, ils font face aux mêmes conditions routière que je sache. Pourquoi eux autres devraient avoir droit de se soustraire à la loi et de risquer nos vies?
Pcqu'ils viennent pour qq jours ou une ou deux semaines. Qu'est-ce que tu veux qu'on fasse? Qu'ils mettent des pneus d'hivers pour 3 jours passés à MTL? Ben voyons!

Si tu vas en Ontario, est-ce que tu vas mettre une plaque d'immatriculation en avant de ton auto pour respecter leur loi? Ben non, pcq tu viens du Qc et que tu ne vas y passer que qq jours, alors la loi ne s'applique pas à toi.
 

EagerBeaver

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metoo4 said:
EB, you should know better... With a law, any law, a line need to be drawn somewhere.

You're right - I should know better and I do. I am intimately familiar with motor vehicle laws in my own jurisdiction and basically they are all enacted as a means of regulating safety on the highways. I should note that in Connecticut, there is no law requiring winter tires at any time. I suspect that this is largely due to the fact that we do not get as much snow as you do in Montreal, except perhaps for the far northwestern corner of the state, which is not densely populated nor is there a lot of highway traffic there.

You are correct that the law must draw the line somewhere. But usually, legislation that is safety based and passed by any legislature (or parliament in your case) is based on objective studies of accidents and weather done on a monthly basis. In this case, there have probably been studies done by month showing both the number of accidents due to slippage from not driving on snow tires, and studies done by month on average snowfall in Montreal. Which is why I am VERY surprised that this law would use either November 15 or December 15 as a trigger date, instead of November 1 or December 1 or January 1. All such studies I am aware of, are usually done on a monthly basis or for the calendar month.

Of course, I am merely assuming that legislation in Quebec is formulated in the same manner, but I would think this to be a reasonable assumption on my part.
 
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voyageur11

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The reason is before the dec. 15 . usually the snow will melt in a few days because de ground is not frozen.
 

MG_mtl

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voyageur11 said:
The reason is before the dec. 15 . usually the snow will melt in a few days because de ground is not frozen.
It's been mentionned before in this thread, but the benefit of the winter tires and the dates chosen have more to do with the temperature then the amount of snow.
 

EagerBeaver

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v11, MG Mtl,

There is likely some scientific truth to what you say. I have on many occasions seen snowfall and rainfall studies used in Court cases involving slip and fall personal injury cases. In the case of snowfall studies, in slip and fall cases, they are usually used in conjunction with temperature studies. I remember a case involving a UPS deliveryman who slipped and fell on an icy driveway. We retrieved the snowfall records for the week in question and the temperature records as well. These records proved that there had been a snowfall the day before he slipped and fell of about 2", the snow had melted when the temperature climbed later in the day, and then froze the following night before his unfortunate fall early the following morning.

I had been thinking only in terms of monthly studies of snowfall but I had forgotten in my prior post that in slippage cases (people or cars!), temperature is an enormous factor especially when snow melts and freezes. Therefore, it would make sense to perhaps break it down by week and certainly with respect to temperature, the Celsius studies are probably available on a weekly basis.
 

Possum Trot

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MG_mtl said:
It's been mentionned before in this thread, but the benefit of the winter tires and the dates chosen have more to do with the temperature then the amount of snow.

Winter tires almost universally utilize softer rubber compounds which stay more flexible at cold temperatures and therefore grip better. While this may sound farfetched it is in fact true. The flip side is that winter tires will wear faster on bare pavement and at warmer temperatures due to the soft compounds.

The aggressive tread pattern of a snow tire is useful at low speed in snow but in itself is not much help on ice. Those little micro grooves along with the soft rubber in the Bridgestone and Michelin and other winter tires some help on ice at low speed.

There was considerable debate at to the definition of what a snow tire was ie at what level of wear is a snow tire no longer a snow tire etc etc. There are various countries in Europe that have enacted similar laws so this isn't totally virgin territory.

I applaud Quebec for passing this law.
 
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EagerBeaver

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Run Flat Tires

I have "run-flat" tires on my car, which is an all wheel drive vehicle. It has a computer chip in it which senses the road conditions and, if necessary, automatically activates the all wheel drive. I don't know how all this works. From what I understand, if I am driving and there is a sudden snow, the AWD activates and theoretically, even though they are not snow tires, I should get better traction with AWD. I also have some kind of traction button I can press if I am going up a snowy hill and need extra traction. Not sure how this works either, but I have used this button a few times.

I recently paid about $880 to have 4 new Continental AWD "run flats" installed. I happen to have a tire shop near my office and the owner had recommended these tires. I previously had Bridgestones, and the Bridgestones wore out after 30,000 miles which was very disappointing, to say the least. A lot of those 30,000 miles were spent driving on those Bridgestones to Montreal!!!!!!!! My tire guy said the Continental run flat AWD tire should wear better, yet it's cheaper than the Bridgestone. Also read good things online about the Continental tire that backed up my tire guy's statements.
 
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metoo4

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EB, usually (Not always!) tire durability is a trade-off with road handling. Tires that last longer grip less and vice-versa. You might not like these Conti if you like to rock your car a lot. The "not always" disclaimer came after some genius tire councellor got me to buy Sumitomo tires, saying they were as good as Michelin and costed $50 less each. The damn tires lasted 2 summer (about 30,000km) and were not that good at handling on dry and slippery as soap when wet!

For your safety, don't fall in the trap so many peoples fall into when thinking AWD. They "grip" more but are in no way safer. Worst, even if they might prevent a skid longer, when it start skidding, all 4 wheels will go at once, compared with a a 2WD who's usually going to skid from one axle before the second axle follow. This small delay allow a chance for a good driver to "catch it" before it's too late. This delay doesn't exist in AWD.

On any cars, when you release the gas on a slippery road, the wheels feel a braking effect who might cause a lost of traction. If you have AWD, there's a strong risk the simple fact of letting go of the gas can cause all wheels to loos traction, causing an uncontrollable skid.
 

Lion Heart

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Kepler said:
Law is in effect now, and a definition of winter tire is in effect.
The Law is indeed in effect since last year (Dec. 2007). It gives the Government the power to regulate but the Regulation that need to go along with it is not adopted yet. Without a regulation to actually enforce a law, it is pretty much useless.

Lion Heart
 

mtwallet

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EB, legislation in Quebec is formulated by what will bring in the most tax dollars.

Think about it: You have to pay sales tax for the purchase of the tires
You have to pay an enviornmental tax on the same tires
You pay sales tax for the installation of the tires
You pay sales tax for a set of winter rims (optional)
Your gas mileage suffers, more gas, more tax revenue

Don't get me wrong. I think that mandatory snow tires is a good idea. I think that the need to make common sense a law is a disgrace.
 

Kepler

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Lion Heart said:
The Law is indeed in effect since last year (Dec. 2007). It gives the Government the power to regulate but the Regulation that need to go along with it is not adopted yet. Without a regulation to actually enforce a law, it is pretty much useless.


The regulation has in fact been put in place on Sep. 17, 2008. I'd give a link but the free websites are running behind and are only up date as of Aug. 1, 2008. If you have paying access to Quebec's Official Gazette, you can look it up there, or go to your local law library.
 
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