Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: A closer look at decriminalizing prostitution

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    montreal
    Posts
    2,116

    A closer look at decriminalizing prostitution

    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  2. #2
    Naughty : Would you give me your opinion on the main practical differences between decriminalization and legalization or are there any ?

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    montreal
    Posts
    2,116
    legalization implies government regulation such as we see in Nevada. (SPs here are not allowed into Las Vegas hotels for example; and must have a registered ID card to work legally: this means a permanent record of having worked in the sex industry!)

    decriminalization implies the removal of existing laws.

    Personally I do not trust the government to tell me what is the way I must run my business.
    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by naughtylady

    Personally I do not trust the government to tell me what is the way I must run my business.
    Hey they tell me how to run mine why should you dodge that little pleasure.

    I thought in the State of Nevada prostitution was only legal in certain counties. In the county that the city of Las Vegas is in it is not legal. The Bunny Ranch is in the next county where it is legal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada

    http://www.bunnyranch.com/main.php

  5. #5
    Making it legal would be a great thing imo.

    The girls will be off the streets, safe, clean and their revenu will give a

    boost to the economy.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    montreal
    Posts
    2,116
    No it is not legal in Las Vegas but if a girl works at a ranch she is not even allowed legally to go see a Vegas show at one of their famed hotels on her week off (Generally they work 3 weeks on 1 week off). Pretty extreme IMHO.

    If I had to vote between legalizing vs the status quo, I would choose legalizing; however given the choice to vote decriminalizing, that is they I would prefer to see things go. Until they make all sexually active, or at the very least high risk professionals (such as doctors) take mandatory HIV, Hepatitis. etc. tests, I am against forced testing: it is discrimination.

    Remember in the USA 25% of university students have some sort of STI. It is not the SPs of the world who we have to worry about. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. In countries where there is mandatory testing for SW, there is a higher incidence of clients pushing for BBservices because they believe it is safe. If an SP has an STI, somebody had to have given it to her!

    Both the SP and the client need to treat each other as if they already have an STI and ALWAYS use condoms. We are all adults here. Be responsible for your own actions. Excuses like being caught up in the moment just don`t cut it.

    Ronnie,
    Naughtylady
    Last edited by naughtylady; 03-09-2009 at 02:30 AM.
    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  7. #7
    If it ever happens it will have to happen in harmony across the country and not just in one or a few provinces, that is why I believe it will never happen. It can only be tolerated as it is in Montreal. Should the impossible happen and it is decriminalized, the biz will colapse. Just as the car industry now has more manufacturer, dealers and production than it can support, the sex industry will swell the supply will increase and the demand will also increase due to the wide variety and choice but will not keep up with the supply. Another analogy camparing the sex industry to the car industry is that there are curbsiders in the car business. These are people who work individialy part time to buy cars and fix them up to resell at a profit, the sex industry will also have part timers that jump in and out of the business to suppliment their incomes for various reasons from paying the rent to going on spring break. This type of people and these conditions exist now because it is tolerated, but some people will not engage in it unless it is fully decriminalized and there is no risk of repercussions.
    Last edited by GTA refugee; 03-11-2009 at 10:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    montreal
    Posts
    2,116
    Why would it collapse here when in New Zealand and Australia we have seen nothing of the sort after it was legalized?

    I do not think you can compare the sex industry with the car industry. Cars were never illegal. Also sex is a service industry, whereas cars are a product.

    Ronnie,
    Naughtylady
    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  9. #9

    This is Quebec.

    Things happen on this side of the Ontario/Quebec boarder that do not happen on the other side. Imagine a situation of no risk of repercussions or prosecution. How many women would engage in the biz part time or full time or on a temporary basis that would not have participated if there was risk of going to jail? I can only take a guess that the when in need all a woman has to do is to place an ad in Craiglist and work from her home, or call or visit a massage parlour or escort service to earn extra income. Even as it is, the LE tolerates the vast majority of activities in the massage and escort business today. While the sex industry may not collapse it would swell by at least 33% and maybe as much as 50% The difference for the consumer would be more choice, more offerings, better deals and better prices. The providers would be forced to offer more for less.
    Last edited by GTA refugee; 03-13-2009 at 09:57 AM.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    montreal
    Posts
    2,116
    Quote Originally Posted by My_dingaling
    By example, it's illegal to run a red light and not a criminal offense. If you were DUI when you ran the red light, you would have committed the criminal offense of DUI and not of running the red light. The running of the red light simply helped inform the police someone needed catching.

    Decriminalizing prostition may be such that it remains illegal, simply not a criminal offense.
    When activist groups are talking about decriminalization, they are talking about abolishing the current laws surrounding Prostitution, not changing them as you suggest. (PS: I used to think the same thing when they talked about decriminalizing marijuana.)

    Ronnie,
    Naughtylady
    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by naughtylady
    When activist groups are talking about decriminalization, they are talking about abolishing the current laws surrounding Prostitution, not changing them as you suggest.
    That's one of the problems in this debate. The activist groups took the term "decriminalization" and applied it to a concept at odds with the ordinary meaning of the term. Decriminalization in its ordinary sense refers to the concept My_Dingaling described - the activity remains illegal, but the sanction is not criminal. While legalization, in its ordinary sense, refers to the removal of all legal barriers to the activity in question. Sexwork activist groups misuse the term "legalization" when what they really mean is "regulation". This misuse of terminology makes the debate hard to follow for anyone who isn't already familiar with this irregular use of language.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    montreal
    Posts
    2,116
    Quote Originally Posted by johnhenrygalt
    That's one of the problems in this debate. The activist groups took the term "decriminalization" and applied it to a concept at odds with the ordinary meaning of the term. Decriminalization in its ordinary sense refers to the concept My_Dingaling described - the activity remains illegal, but the sanction is not criminal. While legalization, in its ordinary sense, refers to the removal of all legal barriers to the activity in question. Sexwork activist groups misuse the term "legalization" when what they really mean is "regulation". This misuse of terminology makes the debate hard to follow for anyone who isn't already familiar with this irregular use of language.
    Sex work activists are not the ones who made the definitions, what we are comparing is laymen's usual understanding vs the legal definition as used by the courts. The same definition as marijuana activists.

    I use the definition that would be used in referendum for example; the legal definition.

    Ronnie,
    Naughtylady
    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by johnhenrygalt
    That's one of the problems in this debate. The activist groups took the term "decriminalization" and applied it to a concept at odds with the ordinary meaning of the term. Decriminalization in its ordinary sense refers to the concept My_Dingaling described - the activity remains illegal, but the sanction is not criminal. While legalization, in its ordinary sense, refers to the removal of all legal barriers to the activity in question. Sexwork activist groups misuse the term "legalization" when what they really mean is "regulation". This misuse of terminology makes the debate hard to follow for anyone who isn't already familiar with this irregular use of language.
    I agree with you. These terms are misleading. But they have been used in that sense for a few decades now.

    However, I dont think legalization means "the removal of all legal barriers".
    This word is largely accepted as "making legal" giving it a status. For instance, prostitution in itself is not legal in Canada, but it is not at all illegal. It just has no legal status. In that sense, the word legalization is accepted as giving a status. That comes with regulations of course.

    Personnally, I see no way that pure decriminalization (simple abrogation of the 4 articles concerning prostitution in the criminal code AND nothing else) would be socially acceptable. If bawdy houses are not anymore illegal, there will have to be some form of regulation. If it is not considered illegal to make money out the prostitution of an other person, there will have to be some sort of regulations on what is acceptable and what is not, and sanctions, including criminal sanctions.

    I understand the sex work activists in requiring simple decriminalization and fearing state regulation. It's normal. But in the end, everybody will have to accept that if we decriminalize, we wil need some regulations. The real question is: what type of regulations do we need?
    Last edited by gugu; 03-13-2009 at 06:27 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu
    But in the end, everybody will have to accept that if we decriminalize, we wil need some regulations. The real question is: what type of regulations do we need?
    I don't know if we need regulations. But if prostitution is further decriminalized or legalized, it will be subject to regulation. One is hardpressed to think of a single industry that is free from regulation. And in a sense, prostitution is already regulation in that the prostitutes must report their income to the tax authorities; if annual revenues (not profits) exceed $30,000 they have to charge and remit GST and QST on their sales (and issue to the client a receipt bearing the GST and QST number). If the business operates under a trade name, that trade name must register with the "Registraire des Entreprises du Quebec". There are other regulations of general application to which all businesses, including that of prostitution, are subject.

    That there is widespread non-compliance with these statutes and regulations (I have never received a receipt with a GST/QST number on it) and an almost complete non-enforcement of these regulations is not necessarily related to the semi-legal nature of much of the sex industry. While many operators in the sex industry fail to comply with regulations for fear of creating a "paper trail" which could implicate them in criminal proceedings, even were the sex industry to be further legalized or decriminalized, one would not immediately see widespread voluntary compliance. The strip club industry is "legal", yet I am never given a receipt with GST and QST numbers when I order my club soda. No dancer has ever assessed me GST and QST for a dance and supplied me with a receipt (the tax can be included in the $10 price, but the receipt must itemize the tax paid). I strongly suspect many dancers underreport income and do not keep accurate records of expenses. I also strongly suspect that the true legal relationship between bars and dancers is that of employer/employee and that the club is not simply a venue where the independent business women exercise their profession.

    In short, even with a measure of decriminalization or legalization, this industry will continue to operate under the radar due to the stigma attached to both sex workers and clients. It will remain a cash business where all parties involved seek anonymity.

  15. #15
    Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    In terms of attitudes towards prostitution, New Zealand and Europe are almost as diametrically opposed as they are in geography. Kiwis have opted for wholesale liberalisation of the sex trade, while Europeans are increasingly restricting it.

    Does the New Zealand liberal approach provide a model or a warning? Henri Astier looks at its prostitution industry six years after decriminalisation...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •