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Saudi judge refuses to annul marriage between 8-year girl & 47-year old pedophile

Doc Holliday

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(CNN) -- A Saudi judge has refused for a second time to annul a marriage between an 8-year-old girl and a 47-year-old man, a relative of the girl told CNN.

The most recent ruling, in which the judge upheld his original verdict, was handed down Saturday in the Saudi city of Onaiza, where late last year the same judge rejected a petition from the girl's mother, who was seeking a divorce for her daughter.

The relative said the judge, Sheikh Habib Al-Habib, "stuck by his earlier verdict and insisted that the girl could petition the court for a divorce once she reached puberty." The family member, who requested anonymity, added that the mother will continue to pursue a divorce for her daughter.

The case, which has drawn criticism from local and international rights groups, came to light in December when al-Habib declined to annul the marriage on a legal technicality. The judge ruled the girl's mother -- who is separated from the girl's father -- was not the girl's legal guardian and therefore could not represent her in court, according to Abdullah al-Jutaili, the mother's lawyer.

The girl's father, according to the attorney, arranged the marriage in order to settle his debts with the man, who is "a close friend" of his. At the time of the initial verdict, the judge required the girl's husband to sign a pledge that he would not have sex with her until she reaches puberty, al-Jutaili told CNN. The judge ruled that when the girl reaches puberty, she will have the right to request a divorce by filing a petition with the court, the lawyer said.

Last month, an appeals court in the Saudi capital of Riyadh declined to certify the original ruling, in essence rejecting al-Habib's verdict, and sent the case back to al-Habib for reconsideration.

Under the complicated Saudi legal process, the appeals court ruling meant that the marriage was still in effect, but that a challenge to the marriage was still ongoing. The appeals court in Riyadh will now take up the case again and a hearing is scheduled for next month, according to the relative.

The issue of child marriage has been a hot-button topic in the deeply conservative kingdom recently. While rights groups have been petitioning the government to enact laws that would protect children from this type of marriage, the kingdom's top cleric has said that it's OK for girls as young as 10 to wed.

"It is incorrect to say that it's not permitted to marry off girls who are 15 and younger," Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, the kingdom's grand mufti, said in remarks last January quoted in the regional Al-Hayat newspaper. "A girl aged 10 or 12 can be married. Those who think she's too young are wrong and they are being unfair to her."

Al-Sheikh reportedly made the remarks when he was asked during a lecture about parents forcing their underage daughters to marry.

"We hear a lot in the media about the marriage of underage girls," he said, according to the newspaper. "We should know that Sharia law has not brought injustice to women."

Sharia law is Islamic law. Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam called Wahhabism.

CNN was unable to reach government officials for comment.

Christoph Wilcke, a Saudi Arabia researcher for Human Rights Watch, told CNN in December that his organization has heard of many other cases of child marriages.

"We've been hearing about these types of cases once every four or five months because the Saudi public is now able to express this kind of anger -- especially so when girls are traded off to older men," Wilcke said.

Wilcke explained that while Saudi ministries may make decisions designed to protect children, "It is still the religious establishment that holds sway in the courts, and in many realms beyond the court."

Last December, Zuhair al-Harithi, a spokesman for the Saudi government-run Human Rights Commission, said his organization is fighting against child marriages.

"The Human Rights Commission opposes child marriages in Saudi Arabia," al-Harithi said. "Child marriages violate international agreements that have been signed by Saudi Arabia and should not be allowed." He added that his organization has been able to intervene and stop at least one child marriage from taking place.

Wajeha al-Huwaider, co-founder of the Society of Defending Women's Rights in Saudi Arabia, told CNN that achieving human rights in the kingdom means standing against those who want to "keep us backward and in the dark ages."

She said the marriages cause girls to "lose their sense of security and safety. Also, it destroys their feeling of being loved and nurtured. It causes them a lifetime of psychological problems and severe depression."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/12/saudi.child.marriage/
 

Doc Holliday

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Saudi judge refuses to annul marriage of 8-year-old girl

FROM CNN’s Jack Cafferty:

Last week in the Cafferty File we told you about a new Afghan law that legalizes rape. This week’s outrage story comes courtesy of another one of our allies in the Mideast, Saudi Arabia — where a judge has refused for a second time to annul a marriage between an eight-year-old girl and a 47-year-old man.

The same judge rejected a petition back in December from the girl’s mother, who was trying to get a divorce for her daughter. A relative of the girl tells CNN that the Saudi judge says he’s sticking by his earlier verdict, and that the girl can petition the court for a divorce once she reaches puberty.

The mother’s lawyer says that it was the eight-year-old girl’s father who arranged the marriage in order to settle his debts with the man. The judge required the girl’s husband to sign a pledge that he wouldn’t have sex with her until she reaches puberty. Right.

Child marriage is a controversial topic in the Saudi kingdom. Human rights groups have been calling on the government to pass laws that would protect young girls. But the country’s top cleric says it’s okay for girls as young as 10 to get married.

This stuff is beyond sick. But there isn’t much the U.S. can do or say… is there? We’re completely dependent on Saudi Arabia’s oil. Saudi Arabia — the country that gave us many of the 9/11 hijackers and a place where it’s alright for grown men to marry children.

Pretty disgusting.

Here’s my question to you: What does it mean when a Saudi judge refuses to annul a marriage between an 8-year-old girl and a 47-year-old man?

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2...refuses-to-annul-marriage-of-8-year-old-girl/
 

rollingstone

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It's one thing to make a commentary on the judicial system in Saudi Arabia, it's quite another to make sweeping generalizations about hundreds of millions of people across 22 countries. That being said, the news did not surprise me. My native Egypt has had issues with Saudi men approaching poor families to, in effect, buy their underage daughters. Bribes dispensed to the appropriate bureaucrats (people who issue birth certificates, passports, marriage licenses...etc) make the marriage possible. The police has cracked down and new laws have been passed but it is impossible to tell how effective they are.

There was a similar case in Yemen where the judge ordered the marriage of a 12 yr old girl dissolved. I won't say that the Middle East does not have severe woman's right issues, but the media on this side of the world definitely loves to report the more sensational issues instead of the success stories.

Doc your friend's analysis of the Saudi royal family is not untrue. But I thought Southeast Asia had sex tourists and pedophiles from around the world, not just Arabs. The issues with the royal family would be the same in any country where the royals are filthy rich and beyond public scrutiny. The problem in Saudi Arabia is that the royals require the blessing of the religious establishment to maintain power, and as a result the nuts have a lot of leeway in the judicial system. Every country in the world has to deal with a right-wing/religious demographic, but you cannot judge a people by how much power their local religious establishment wields.
 

Doc Holliday

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Taliban=Animals?

Police: Taliban executes eloping lovers

KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Taliban gunmen executed a young couple for trying to elope in rural Afghanistan, a local police chief told CNN Tuesday.

The woman was forced by her parents to become engaged to a man she did not like, said Police Chief Gabar Furdali, and decided to leave home with another man.

Local Taliban commanders found out and set out to punish them, said the police officer in the village of Man De Khe in the Kash Rud district of Nimruz province, a remote southwestern province that borders on Iran and Pakistan.

The Taliban gathered residents of Kash Rud to watch the execution of the two. The man, Abdul Aziz, and the woman, who was not named, were shot to death, the police officer said. He did not say when the killings took place.

NATO troops who patrol the country have "limited presence in that particular area," a spokesman told CNN.

The killings were not "within our area of responsibility, but we are aware of the reports" said the spokesman for the NATO mission who declined to be named, in line with policy.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/14/afghan.lovers/index.html
 

YouVantOption

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Doc Holliday said:
Saudi judge refuses to annul marriage of 8-year-old girl

FROM CNN’s Jack Cafferty:

This week’s outrage story comes courtesy of another one of our allies in the Mideast, Saudi Arabia — where a judge has refused for a second time to annul a marriage between an eight-year-old girl and a 47-year-old man.

The same judge rejected a petition back in December from the girl’s mother, who was trying to get a divorce for her daughter. A relative of the girl tells CNN that the Saudi judge says he’s sticking by his earlier verdict, and that the girl can petition the court for a divorce once she reaches puberty.

The mother’s lawyer says that it was the eight-year-old girl’s father who arranged the marriage in order to settle his debts with the man. The judge required the girl’s husband to sign a pledge that he wouldn’t have sex with her until she reaches puberty. Right.

Child marriage is a controversial topic in the Saudi kingdom. Human rights groups have been calling on the government to pass laws that would protect young girls. But the country’s top cleric says it’s okay for girls as young as 10 to get married.

Here’s my question to you: What does it mean when a Saudi judge refuses to annul a marriage between an 8-year-old girl and a 47-year-old man?

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2...refuses-to-annul-marriage-of-8-year-old-girl/


I take issue with your use of the term pedophile. There is zero proof that the husband is a pedo. He has accepted the girl as payment for a debt. That is vile and deplorable, but something entirely different.
 

Doc Holliday

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YouVantOption said:
I take issue with your use of the term pedophile. There is zero proof that the husband is a pedo. He has accepted the girl as payment for a debt. That is vile and deplorable, but something entirely different.

Are you f#^# kidding me? Do you honestly think that you wouldn't be regarded as being a pedophile if you agreed to marry an 8 year-old girl? :confused:
 

HenriIV

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Doc Holliday said:
Police: Taliban executes eloping lovers

KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Taliban gunmen executed a young couple for trying to elope in rural Afghanistan, a local police chief told CNN Tuesday.

The woman was forced by her parents to become engaged to a man she did not like, said Police Chief Gabar Furdali, and decided to leave home with another man.

Local Taliban commanders found out and set out to punish them, said the police officer in the village of Man De Khe in the Kash Rud district of Nimruz province, a remote southwestern province that borders on Iran and Pakistan.

The Taliban gathered residents of Kash Rud to watch the execution of the two. The man, Abdul Aziz, and the woman, who was not named, were shot to death, the police officer said. He did not say when the killings took place.

NATO troops who patrol the country have "limited presence in that particular area," a spokesman told CNN.

The killings were not "within our area of responsibility, but we are aware of the reports" said the spokesman for the NATO mission who declined to be named, in line with policy.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/14/afghan.lovers/index.html

Though some of our fellow citiszens still wonder what are Canadian Troops doing out there! This might be the a part of the answer!!

Good article Doc! Thanks for sharing.

Henri IV
 

YouVantOption

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Doc Holliday said:
Are you f#^# kidding me? Do you honestly think that you wouldn't be regarded as being a pedophile if you agreed to marry an 8 year-old girl? :confused:

That depends upon the culture and the society. I am speaking of the definition of paedophile. You might be right in assuming he is, but you might be wrong. Women are highly prized in that culture in that they take care of the homestead, as well as being sexual objects, and because they have the ability to bear children. That may well have motivated his purchase.

In the United States, I am legally a pedo if I am 18 and bang a girl 17 y/o 2 days before her 18th birthday. In Canada, a 55 y/o can bang a 14 y/o without that legality being a problem.

If I were to purchase an 8 year-old girl in Canada, or allow a debt to lapse if the girl is given to me, I'm pretty sure we have some laws that would make the transaction null and void. Apparently, not so much in SA.
 

YouVantOption

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HenriIV said:
Though some of our fellow citiszens still wonder what are Canadian Troops doing out there!

Then those citizens should read what our obligations are under the NATO charter, article 5. I have to wonder why anyone is still wondering about this, 7 years into a war. Perhaps they had the t.v. off 2002-2004, and didn't pick up a newspaper during that time.
 

amazona

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Saudi judge and 8years old girl

I will not say much because makes me sick just to think about this subject.But I ask only one question from this SOB howe would he feel if was done to his owne sister or daughter or when his mother was 8years old little girl?.Some these rich fat basterds have so much money not working for it they have no respect for humans specially for woman.
amazona
 

Doc Holliday

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YouVantOption said:
In the United States, I am legally a pedo if I am 18 and bang a girl 17 y/o 2 days before her 18th birthday. In Canada, a 55 y/o can bang a 14 y/o without that legality being a problem.

Wrong. The legal age of consent in Canada was raised to 16 one year ago.

There's also a huge difference between an eight year old girl & someone in her mid-to-late teens.
 

YouVantOption

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Doc Holliday said:
Wrong. The legal age of consent in Canada was raised to 16 one year ago.

There's also a huge difference between an eight year old girl & someone in her mid-to-late teens.

You are still not addressing my point. You say the guy is a paedo. I am saying there isn't any proof of that. This arrangement might not be about sex.
 

Doc Holliday

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YouVantOption said:
You are still not addressing my point. You say the guy is a paedo. I am saying there isn't any proof of that. This arrangement might not be about sex.

You're absolutely correct! It must be about love!! Or, maybe she completes him....heck, maybe they're soulmates! :rolleyes:
 

YouVantOption

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Lone Rider said:
It will take generations and many many western lives to bring these populations up to speed with the rest of us.

There are 11,000 Taliban in the world.

I recall after our initial victory in Afghanistan when Much Music sent one of their V.J.'s over there to interview kids her age. She set up in front of a market stall that was selling CDs of western music.

She asked a young girl in her teens 'what is the best thing about being liberated from taliban rule? Is it all this great musci you get to buy now?"

The girl responded "No, the best thing is that I get to go to school".

I'm not so sure your 'generations' timeframe applies. There are plenty of modernist activists in Islamic countries. Our press likes to cover the religious extremists to a much greater degree, quite possibly with good reason, but make no mistake. "Those people" aren't all like that, and we were 'like that' not so long ago.

Women only got the vote less than 100 years ago in North America. Women have a vote, and serve in government in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I'd say that is significant progress.
 

Lone Rider

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daddyxxx said:
Unless there is a human rights issue like this story then we need to stay the hell out of peoples business.

I strongly believe that human rights are in cause here in the middle way of life. Forcing an 8 yo girl to marry a 47 yo man is, IMHO, a crime.

daddyxxx said:
If the guy that lives next to me likes his wife to ball gag him and screw him with a 12 inch strap on dildo while she whips him that's his business. Same applies.
^ ^ ^
true story btw
This story is different. If the guy want's his wife to screw him with a dildo, I have absolutely no issue. The story becomes wrong if we impose or force our ideology on somebody or a population.

While many western populations are screwed up, I prefer our way of life compared with a repression based way of life.

Religious beliefs can only bring us so far.

LR
 

YouVantOption

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Lone Rider said:
I strongly believe that human rights are in cause here in the middle way of life. Forcing an 8 yo girl to marry a 47 yo man is, IMHO, a crime.

As is selling/purchasing another person.I remember what its called now: Slavery.

That would be a human rights issue.

The wife/dildo analogy is fundamentally flawed. What goes on between consenting adults in a free and open society are things we should not comment upon. Regarding a society which permits the sale of children, I'd say we do have the high moral ground, and should absolutely not stay out of it, nor withhold comment.
 

Ben Dover

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daddyxxx said:
If the guy that lives next to me likes his wife to ball gag him and screw him with a 12 inch strap on dildo while she whips him that's his business. Same applies.


Hey! So, you're the guy that lives next door to Merlot!

It's a small world... :D


BD
 

Merlot

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Hello all,

It's just plain sick for young girls to be married off to anyone, never mind if the guy is a teen or whatever. The problem in the Muslim world is Islamic religious fanatics and ultra-traditionalists justify everything based on the Kur'an as perfectly recorded from God through Muhammad.

MUHAMMAD, AISHA, ISLAM, AND CHILD BRIDES

by Silas

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm

Picture this historical setting: A 49 year old man asks his best friend if he could have his permission to marry his 6 year old daughter. His friend agrees. The man then visits his best friend’s house and speaks with the 6 year old daughter. Her parents watch as the he proposes marriage to the child. He is serious; he wants to marry the little girl and is asking for her consent. The little child says nothing; she only stares at him in silence.

The Islamic source materials state that Muhammad proposed marriage to Aisha when she was 6. He assumed her silence constituted her consent. Some 2 to 3 years later, just after he had fled to Medina, he consummated his marriage with her. He was 52 and she was 9. This occurred prior to Aisha’s first menses and by Islam’s legal definition Aisha was still considered a child. Islam teaches that a child enters adulthood at the beginning of puberty. (This is scientifically inaccurate, the onset of puberty does not equal adulthood – see Appendix 3).

The bottom line is Muhammad, the creator of Islam, revered by his followers, had sex with a child! Worse, Muhammad's action and teachings on marriage established an Islamic precedent and Islamic law allows female children to be married off and engaged in sex provided they are able to handle a man’s penis (Quran 65:4). As will be shown, this leads to physical, and psychological, damage to the child.


Yes, I agree. It's all very, very sick. But, when extremists are willing to use the Kur'an to justify planting suicide bombs on children to kill the "enemies of Islam", why should we be surprised when we see how radicals view their right to marry young girls. But changes are coming despite some tough resistance.

http://sheikyermami.com/2009/02/26/...it-over-law-setting-minimum-age-for-marriage/

A new law in Islamic Yemen set the minimum age limit for marriage two years higher than their parliament had asked to 17 years of age. But:

Sana’a (AsiaNews) - Some Yemeni religious figures have launched a “fatwa” against the law recently approved by Parliament that sets the minimum age for marriage at 17. The statement, signed by the rector of Al-Eman University, Sheikh Abdul-Majid al-Zindani, and by representatives of the party Islamic Islah, is aimed at eliminating the minimum age limit.

News Yemen reports that the 17 signers of the “fatwa” claim that the law has no Islamic foundation and violates Sharia, the Islamic law, which the Constitution of the country affirms as the basis of all of its laws. “The marriage age,” says the assistant secretary general of the Islah party, Mohammad Assadi, “is an Islamic rule, and political parties cannot intervene in such affairs.”


Tragically, radical and ultra-conservative Muslims are determined to emulate Muhammad as the personification of true Islamic virtue...as gross as it is.

Ben Dover said:
It's a small world...
BD

Sorry pal, I certainly had nothing to do with your "issues" in the hobby. That's all you.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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