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Thread: Avoiding the Hazards of the Hobby / Industry

  1. #1

    Avoiding the Hazards of the Hobby / Industry

    This thread is prompted by the "Retired Escort" thread - shortened version of the title and comments from other board members including mod8 encouraging a thread touching on various safety issues ( basic common sense).

    Do not wish to re-visit the details of the thread in question.

    Also, prefer focusing on specific topics as opposed to bouncing around from topic to subtopic, from actual to hearsay, etc.

    The Taint

    Basic to any scam is The Taint. People running a scam do not want the target or victim going to the police so they will try to "taint" the target by getting them involved in some sort of insignificant illegal activity. Example. You see a provider and eventually repeat, then a relationship developes - the hook is taken. Diner follows, off the clock activities, etc. She asks you to purchase a substance or drive her to work. Don't. Things go wrong and you have to go to the police but your credibility is shot. You now have a history of providing the provider with illegal substances or driving her to work - living of the avails.

    Be very vigilant about "The Taint" in any approach or request.
    LISA'S FRIEND

  2. #2

    Appeal

    Basic to any financial transaction is "Appeal". For the purposes of discussion
    "Appeal" may be reduced to two main categories.

    "Appeal to need" - basics of life such as food, clothing, shelter, security, etc plus as relevant to this discussion need for affection, acceptance and various other emotional needs.

    "Appeal to greed" is the other main category. People want a greater share or a better deal. Main reason why Ponzi scheme's, pyramid sales(combined with "the Taint"), Norberg and countless other scams work.

    When a proposal touches both types of "Appeals" you are especially vulnerable.

    Corollary to the two "Appeals" is the phrase from a classic movie - "The Flim-Flam Man" starring George C. Scott, Michael Sarrazin, late 1960's. "You can't cheat an honest man." Looking for a deal is one thing but not at the expense of someone else. Usually a scam involves a level of illegality or going against the established rules. Avoid all such proposals.
    LISA'S FRIEND

  3. #3
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    Talking

    Does anyone have any useful suggestions on links I should read to learn more about personal security?

    Sorry I haven't been posting so much as usual. I've been very, very stressed.

    My last post was a bit over the top. Obviously you can't control all circumstances but
    for sure though one has to be careful about meeting SPs outside of fairly controlled circumstances.
    I made the big mistake of being in her car and going where she said to meet me. It might be some time before I am willing to risk
    that again.

    Please send me tips everyone. For now I gotta go. I'm okay, stressed, hard time sleeping but, on the other hand I think I've lost like 5 lbs or something! I have been wanting to lose weight forever so that's actually a real plus.
    Last edited by Dr Edgar Who; 01-14-2010 at 10:31 PM.
    J Edgar Whoever

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Edgar Who View Post
    Does anyone have any useful suggestions on links I should read to learn more about personal security?

    Sorry I haven't been posting so much as usual. I've been very, very stressed.

    My last post was a bit over the top. Obviously you can't control all circumstances but
    for sure though one has to be careful about meeting SPs outside of fairly controlled circumstances.
    I made the big mistake of being in her car and going where she said to meet me. It might be some time before I am willing to risk
    that again.

    Please send me tips everyone. For now I gotta go. I'm okay, stressed, hard time sleeping but, on the other hand I think I've lost like 5 lbs or something! I have been wanting to lose weight forever so that's actually a real plus.

    Get someone you know and trust to do an evaluation of your specific situation. Most people do not have the mindset to handle their own personal security BUT vendors of various courses in pursuit of the dollar overlook this. Net result you have a false sense of security and are at greater risk as a result.
    LISA'S FRIEND

  5. #5
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    Exclamation

    Dr. Edgar Who, and everyone who could be interested.....

    It might help, but it is not an entire answer to all your problem... http://www.senshido.com I personally think the level one and two could be enough to make you be prepared to some kind of particular "street action" ... General martial arts are good, but they are not focused on a very strict quick reply who could be different of your learnings in class. I know, I did tried, in my life, few kind of martial arts, and you are learning like a kind of schematic combat, like a choregraphy. If the guy attack you not totally the way you learned, you couldn't maybe handle the situation.

    I'm living everytime I'm meeting someone new a kind of stress: Of course, I am a woman, I'm going to meet a man, generally more heavy and more strong physically. That's one of the reason I like to exchange a bit by email to feel if this could be ok to meet the person who contacted me. I understand very well your fear to meet because I am living it, at different levels, each time I'm meeting someone...That's true that we could developp a kind of trust, of course, and meet someone well known for me is a bonus in this way, because I could think that he won't do any harm to me.... That's something included in my activity, and I imagine this is one of the part why the level of the donation is. My activity is definitively something who could be dangerous for me. But, in the other hand, the frequency of bad encounters is really low in my situation. Maybe I am just doing the right things to avoid it.

    Maybe another thing is to stick to escort well known and well established for a little while.

    I just don't know what to add else, I just can tell you that your misadventure is rare, and generally, the girls/women are the ones who are afraid to be attacked, because the probabilities are much more tendancing to that...

    Anyway, good luck to you...

    PS: To just give some example, I did go dating in restaurant, I did go to private residence and private chalet(alone in the woods with my date...) , I did travel with some gentlemen too and have been in unknown towns and countries... The fact is to stay always vigilant, but at a normal level... The probabilities you will be again attacked are lower now then the average people who were not, because it is rare to be attacked in an human life, especially in Montreal, compared to other North-American cities. But to learn some basic defense might be a good idea.

    MD xx

    PS2: Of course, I am really curious to read the rest of Eastender's ways to avoid any kind of human trap. His writtings could be adaptable to any situation. Thanks to take the time to share, by the way. xxx
    Last edited by Maria Divina; 01-15-2010 at 02:58 PM. Reason: PS2

  6. #6
    A limited knowledge of Martial Arts can be more dangerous to yourself than to your attacker. It tends to give people a false sense of security and that can get you killed. Everything seems to work well in the class but when confronted by someone with a knife or a gun, most people's training goes right out the window and they freeze. The best defense against an aggressor is to walk or run away, or if that is not possible, give the person your money, your wallet, whatever he wants. If you decide on a physical confrontation you better be prepared to kill the attacker because he's probably ready to kill you.

    Money can be replaced, property can be replaced. Your life can't be.
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  7. #7
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    It is also quite possible that someone's imagination is working overtime and they are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

  8. #8
    EE,

    This is one of your best postings. Please continue.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff jones View Post
    It is also quite possible that someone's imagination is working overtime and they are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
    This is one of the best posts i've seen in a while. Keep it up!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    A limited knowledge of Martial Arts can be more dangerous to yourself than to your attacker. It tends to give people a false sense of security and that can get you killed. Everything seems to work well in the class but when confronted by someone with a knife or a gun, most people's training goes right out the window and they freeze. The best defense against an aggressor is to walk or run away, or if that is not possible, give the person your money, your wallet, whatever he wants. If you decide on a physical confrontation you better be prepared to kill the attacker because he's probably ready to kill you.

    Money can be replaced, property can be replaced. Your life can't be.
    Truer words have never been spoken. Many years ago I was working in a club with a Vietnam vet/ Green Beret. One of the dancers was taking a self-defense course and was bragging about how she could defend herself from an attacker much bigger than her. She did not know the background of my co-worker and boasted that she was able to handle him( he was nearly 6" tall - I wasn't willing to grant him the extra 1/4" about 190lbs). Finally she goaded him into trying to attack her from behind in the gas station parking lot near the club. He smiled approached from behind with a stick, she grabbed his arm, he countered, lifted her spun her over his head, put her on the ground with a foot on her throat and said -" In real life you are seconds into death".

    I cannot repeat more strongly, do not believe or try to imitate the action films, the self-defense hucksters or other fantasy world scenarios.
    LISA'S FRIEND

  11. #11

    Exit Strategy

    The thread has taken on a broader context. We have moved beyond scam type situations to include those where personal safety is an issue. Granted there was overlap in the thread that motivated this one so it is reasonable to discuss both at the same time.

    There is a commonality between successful scams and your personal safety. The common consideration is that if you do not have an exit strategy for any situation the level of risk and danger increases tremendously.

    A potential scam may not present physical danger but it presents financial and emotional danger. Facing such a situation you should always have an exit strategy available. First lie and you should be gone. Typical scam involves a test at a price to you. Especially true in the industry. Scenario. You have a date with a provider outside of agnecy time but she cancels. If there are excuses and an alternative date is set. Fine. If there is a test involved - "I had a flat tire and the garage tells me the tires are too worn. I need replacements" Could you lend me $xxx.00 for tires. It could happen to anyone. Time to walk.

    Reality = over x billion anyone's in the world so why did it happen to her at this specific time? Let's see the tires. If you cannot see and judge tire safety then you should not be lending money for tires.

    Similar your own personal safety. Getting to a place is simple. Getting out may not be. As often as possible park so that no one can get behind you. If waiting for someone in a parking lot occupy a space so that incoming cars are visible to you. view a parking lot or where you park not as a matter of your convenience but from the standpoint of an attacker - do the shadows favour you or a potential attacker? Are larger vehicles blocking your vision of the area? Iis your movement restricted? If the exit is different from the entrance are ther potential problems that are unaccounted for?

    Think about an exit strategy in all situations where there is the smallest level of risk.
    LISA'S FRIEND

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    A limited knowledge of Martial Arts can be more dangerous to yourself than to your attacker. It tends to give people a false sense of security and that can get you killed. Everything seems to work well in the class but when confronted by someone with a knife or a gun, most people's training goes right out the window and they freeze. The best defense against an aggressor is to walk or run away, or if that is not possible, give the person your money, your wallet, whatever he wants. If you decide on a physical confrontation you better be prepared to kill the attacker because he's probably ready to kill you.

    Money can be replaced, property can be replaced. Your life can't be.
    Hello Techman,

    All true...except that I would replace "kill", with completely disable. It might still end up being lethal, but I would not start with a kill in mind. If it comes to the point where there is no other choice then defend yourself and make sure the attacker is taken out.

    Yes, when confronted with an armed person give them every item they want. That is the advice even a 6th degree black belt gave my class. "You can replace everything but your life".

    Self-defense classes do give one a false sense of security. That is a problem for a number of reasons. One may feel they can handle a confrontation that is unpredictable and may be grossly underestimated. Some may feel self-superior or let their machismo and pride get in the way rather than focusing a de-escalating the situation. Also, using unpolished self-defense training can lead to unintentioned severe or deadly results. I have found even in light practice with live stand-ins it is easy to hurt someone twice your size unintentionally with these techniques, especially if you have not developed good control of them. These skills are not toys and they are not for fun or games. It is a bit scary that one of my most reliable strikes would probably be deadly if accomplished correctly. So don't try to prove anything with these skills and don't "play" with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by lublaw View Post
    I am sure we have some keyboard warriors that will explain how their blackbelt will protect them from the tire iron to the back of the head, reality sucks .
    Agreed! Thinking you are invulnerable is the worst possible mistake. These skills are for a "no choice left" scenario only.

    Quote Originally Posted by lublaw View Post
    BTW, if you do kill an attacker (or a legitimate enemy in war, or anyone) you will have a whole new set of mental/emotional problems to deal with the rest of your life. It' s not like in the movies.
    LL
    Definitely! Unless you are cold-blooded there will be mental/emotional baggage to deal with. Even those who believe in their due right to defend themselves ruthlessly are very likely to feel the burden after.

    Good luck,

    Merlot

    BTW...I heard about a growling pit bull alarm once. Wouldn't that be pretty effective for the home.
    Last edited by Merlot; 01-15-2010 at 11:44 PM.

  13. #13

    Self - defense Classes

    A comment about self-defense classes.

    If the self-defense class does not teach you basic street safety,recognition, avoidance and exit strategies then it will do more harm than good by providing a false sense of security.

    I've seen a few of these so-called self defense classes offered at schools, community centers and some of the instructors beyond the macho posturing get easily flustered if you ask them basic questions - what if the attacker is left handed or right handed? Can you tell if an attacker is left handed or right handed? And so forth.

    If you are going to spend hard earned money on a self-defense course ask the key questions before putting up the cash. Choreographed moves that look impressive during a demonstration would get you destroyed on the street.
    LISA'S FRIEND

  14. #14
    EE,

    Can you ellaborate on chossing a self defense class?

  15. #15
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    Hello all,

    Anyone who thinks good self-defense is choreographed is greatly mistaken. I never spent a penny on choreography...lol. We learned how to effectively defend ourselves and to subdue an attacker as quickly as possible. The emphasis was always on learning to adapt to an attack and using skills spontaneously. Any choreography was a performance exercise only for a standard of comparison in exhibitions or performance competitions. Quite obviously, a confrontation is totally unpredictable and it is absurd to think one can choose a choreography to defend oneself in real life as Bruce lee said: “Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” In other words, be adaptable. So, if you like choreography...see a movie. Choreography is only slightly more useless as being a big bouncer in a confrontation. The biggest bouncers die just as fast from a gun or a knife attack no matter how big or macho.

    Yes, a good self-defense class does teach you some basic street safety, recognition, avoidance and exit strategies, but only very minimally since that is not their purpose. Good teachers are very pointed in reminding you to be very careful about developing a false sense of security, and the skills are equally applicable and effective no matter what "hand" the attacker favors.

    BTW...I wasn't recommending self-defense classes. Just commenting on them. But, if you want good advice about these classes go to someone with the knowledge.

    Cheers,

    Merlot
    Last edited by Merlot; 01-16-2010 at 01:07 AM.

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