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Thread: How WHO Screwed Up H1N1

  1. #1

    How WHO Screwed Up H1N1

    Deaths from H1N1 are about 1/3 of those of seasonal flu in both Canada and the US, millions of vaccine does are unsed and unwanted in Canada after an initial rush which was largely media generated. Intial "expert prediction of 10,000 deaths in Canada and up to 60,000 in the US sit at 420 in Canada and approximately 12,000 in the US. The Chief Medical officer of Canada estimates that between 2,000 and 8,000 die annually from seasonal flu here.

    The European Union is investigating the whole mess and has asked WHO officials to come and testify. While their intentions may have been pure this is the second time in 5 or 6 years that WHO has cries wolf, the first being Avian flu and many people are beginning to insist on some accountability because huge financial resources which could have been used on other, more critical, health issues were diverted to swine flu.

    A fair, after the fact, assessment was contained in yesterday's Globe and Mail written by credible people in Canadian health care.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1436739/
    Last edited by Possum Trot; 01-21-2010 at 10:26 AM.

  2. #2
    Prevention concepts are misunderstood by 90% of the population.

  3. #3
    Haiti has been a disaster for decades. Has it even NOT been a disaster?

  4. #4
    I guess everyone would have happier if a million people had died.
    A few teenagers that died in local hospitals was nothing of course.

    I guess the AIDS situation makes you happy. A real epidemic. Not just a few teenagers.


    One thing about prevention and preventive measures is most people understand NOTHING. It is proven here.

    Take the airbags and seat belts out of cars. Remove traffic signals and speed limits. Vaccinate nothing. Go for bareback full service.

    Oh well. Being intelligent and thoughtful is not prerequisite for posting on a whore mongering site.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddyxxx View Post
    And it goes on. Did you hear the ads on the radio now about protecting yourself from Malaria when you go to the Caribbean? Who the fuck gets Malaria in the Caribbean?
    That would be humans. Go look up the history of the Rideau canal.
    You are cordially invited to toss my salad. There's an app for that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mercury View Post
    I guess everyone would have happier if a million people had died.
    A few teenagers that died in local hospitals was nothing of course.

    I guess the AIDS situation makes you happy. A real epidemic. Not just a few teenagers.


    One thing about prevention and preventive measures is most people understand NOTHING. It is proven here.

    Take the airbags and seat belts out of cars. Remove traffic signals and speed limits. Vaccinate nothing. Go for bareback full service.

    Oh well. Being intelligent and thoughtful is not prerequisite for posting on a whore mongering site.
    In case anyone is wondering, no I don't have two login accounts to MERB. MM simply took the words out of my mouth, so to speak. Well said, Mike.
    You are cordially invited to toss my salad. There's an app for that!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mercury View Post
    I guess everyone would have happier if a million people had died.
    A few teenagers that died in local hospitals was nothing of course.

    I guess the AIDS situation makes you happy. A real epidemic. Not just a few teenagers.


    One thing about prevention and preventive measures is most people understand NOTHING. It is proven here.

    Take the airbags and seat belts out of cars. Remove traffic signals and speed limits. Vaccinate nothing. Go for bareback full service.

    Oh well. Being intelligent and thoughtful is not prerequisite for posting on a whore mongering site.
    I guess you didn't read the article which was written by some fairly intelligent folks with far more pertinant backgrounds to the issue than anyone here. Just because you disagree I'm not sure a little snide remark about intelligence is warranted. Your lack of tolerance of others opinions does little to pusuade anyone that yours has value. Your analogies concerning aids, seat belts and condoms are quite silly of course as one of the main reasons people are second guessing the whole affairs is the artificial diversion of scarce health care dollars . If half the billion dollars that Canada alledgely spent on this issue had been spent on clinical trials for new cancer drugs one wonders how much better off we would all be. At last report there were millions of unused vaccine doses in warehouses in Canada. One wonders if they will go to waste. More people die of c-difficile in Quebec hospitals than died in all of Canada of H1N1 yet little is being spent on advancement of a soloution.

    There are now very few people disputing that the desease was never more a threat than seasonal flu which receives none of the media hype and fear mongering. But if you want to dance every time WHO plays a tune that is up to you. Just show a little tolerence, and yes intelligence, when people don't share your opinion.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Trot View Post
    I guess you didn't read the article which was written by some fairly intelligent folks with far more pertinant backgrounds to the issue than anyone here. Just because you disagree I'm not sure a little snide remark about intelligence is warranted. Your lack of tolerance of others opinions does little to pusuade anyone that yours has value. Your analogies concerning aids, seat belts and condoms are quite silly of course as one of the main reasons people are second guessing the whole affairs is the artificial diversion of scarce health care dollars . If half the billion dollars that Canada alledgely spent on this issue had been spent on clinical trials for new cancer drugs one wonders how much better off we would all be. At last report there were millions of unused vaccine doses in warehouses in Canada. One wonders if they will go to waste. More people die of c-difficile in Quebec hospitals than died in all of Canada of H1N1 yet little is being spent on advancement of a soloution.

    There are now very few people disputing that the desease was never more a threat than seasonal flu which receives none of the media hype and fear mongering. But if you want to dance every time WHO plays a tune that is up to you. Just show a little tolerence, and yes intelligence, when people don't share your opinion.
    Great post.

    As with many such stories H1N1 was BS from the start.

    The media loved it becasue it scared people sh*&tless, so they watched the news stories over and over.

    And the pharmaceutical lobby "expert advisors" who consulted with governments were only happy to sell the tens of millions (billions?) of vaccine doses.

    I can't imagine the profits they made, but they must be staggering.

    There's a sucker born every minute.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Trot View Post
    There are now very few people disputing that the desease was never more a threat than seasonal flu which receives none of the media hype and fear mongering. But if you want to dance every time WHO plays a tune that is up to you. Just show a little tolerence, and yes intelligence, when people don't share your opinion.
    I am not disputing your general statement, but is this supposed to be comforting when 36,000 people typically die in the U.S. from the "seasonal flu" each year? When a death does occur near you or you are the one then the statistical comfort of being part of a very large population becomes irrelevant. It's no small matter whether millions die or hundreds. And, somehow the 12,000 U.S. deaths doesn't seem as insignificant when compared to WHO predictions if you consider it is 12,000 people and the number is 4 times the number who died in the great "911 disaster."

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonnobalia View Post

    As with many such stories H1N1 was BS from the start.

    The media loved it becasue it scared people sh*&tless, so they watched the news stories over and over.

    And the pharmaceutical lobby "expert advisors" who consulted with governments were only happy to sell the tens of millions (billions?) of vaccine doses.

    I can't imagine the profits they made, but they must be staggering.

    There's a sucker born every minute.
    And now an over-reaction in the opposite direction more harmful than wasted spending. You infer the H1N1 threat is a fake. The death of my next door neighbor who died Christmas night of H1N1 after fighting it in the hospital for a month seems to mean it's real. Looking at the fact that in my lifetime no one near me has ever died of the seasonal flu this death in the short life of H1N1 hit close extremely quickly.

    You and the WHO are the same in your over-reactions. However, the WHO errs on the side of trying to make people safe while your position of denying it altogether puts the vulnerable at risk of death. Obviously, you are NOT the wiser for the people despite the possible financial abuses or alleged grand scams at the other end. The answer is definitely not to ignore the threat as you suggest.

    The smart thing to do would be to see if you carry the high risk factors of any disease threat alert and deal with from there, not run to a doctor scared from ignorance or poo poo the threat just because you have biases against the entity warning you. Get yourself educated for what is going on and your individual risk.

    Cheers,

    Merlot
    Last edited by Merlot; 01-25-2010 at 01:46 PM.

  10. #10
    The thing that worries me is that this makes two over reactions in a row, bird flu and swine flu. Is anyone going to pay attention the next time they declare a pandemic or other health warning? Cry wolf too many times and you start to get ignored.
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  11. #11
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    Techman, the question is one of "the chicken or the egg" category.

    In both case, was the problem less than catastrophic because peoples reacted strong and fast or was it all extra hype over something benign? That's a question nobody will ever be able to answer since the other side of the coin will never be seen.

  12. #12
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    Hello all,

    Quote Originally Posted by Equanimity View Post
    I don't believe Possum Trot ever said ( correct me if I'm wrong here) that vaccination was not a good thing.
    Agreed. But I didn't suggest he said that either.

    Quote Originally Posted by metoo4 View Post
    Techman, the question is one of "the chicken or the egg" category.

    In both case, was the problem less than catastrophic because peoples reacted strong and fast or was it all extra hype over something benign? That's a question nobody will ever be able to answer since the other side of the coin will never be seen.
    Hello Metoo4,

    I agree with both you and Techman. Because it is a matter of "the chicken and the egg" so that no one will know if this was a grave threat avoided. Because of a timely warning and good public reaction people may well take the next threat too lightly. After all, the most successful solution never allows the threat to become too real. Conversely, if there was over-reaction to something actually very slight then the attitude of the public next time is the same as a successful battle against a real threat. And how is over-reaction measured when the depth of the threat can never be accurately measured. Again, a successful solution masks the reality of the threat. Only total failure can prove how real the threat is.

    However, the worst threats are the nay-sayers who cry "sucker". When they are wrong they are massively deadly wrong for us all.

    Truly,

    Merlot
    Last edited by Merlot; 01-25-2010 at 11:28 PM.

  13. #13
    I, for one, took the threat lightly this time. I didn't get a H1N1 shot and have never gotten a flu shot of any kind. I have had the flu maybe once or twice in my entire life. I also don't use those hand sanitizers that everyone is so fond of using (unless a dancer in a club asks me to) that may do more damage than good by preventing the immune system from building it's own defenses naturally.

    I've always felt that when my time is up, it'll be up. So I get a flu shot and escape the flu, but it's my time and I get hit by a car when I cross the street leaving the clinic. Karma.

    Techman
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Trot View Post
    I guess you didn't read the article which was written by some fairly intelligent folks with far more pertinant backgrounds to the issue than anyone here. Just because you disagree I'm not sure a little snide remark about intelligence is warranted. Your lack of tolerance of others opinions does little to pusuade anyone that yours has value. Your analogies concerning aids, seat belts and condoms are quite silly of course as one of the main reasons people are second guessing the whole affairs is the artificial diversion of scarce health care dollars . If half the billion dollars that Canada alledgely spent on this issue had been spent on clinical trials for new cancer drugs one wonders how much better off we would all be. At last report there were millions of unused vaccine doses in warehouses in Canada. One wonders if they will go to waste. More people die of c-difficile in Quebec hospitals than died in all of Canada of H1N1 yet little is being spent on advancement of a soloution.

    There are now very few people disputing that the desease was never more a threat than seasonal flu which receives none of the media hype and fear mongering. But if you want to dance every time WHO plays a tune that is up to you. Just show a little tolerence, and yes intelligence, when people don't share your opinion.
    Long winded, insipid rhetoric. You can`t vaccinate against c-difficile. They are bacteria.

    Keep getting your opinions from American style columnists, republican hacks and conservative hacks.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlot View Post
    And, somehow the 12,000 U.S. deaths doesn't seem as insignificant when compared to WHO predictions if you consider it is 12,000 people and the number is 4 times the number who died in the great "911 disaster."

    Merlot

    Excellent point. Trillions have been spent on Afghanistan & Iraq.

    Is it a coincidence that the same who criticise WHO are the ones cheering the invasion of those countries.

    And vaccines. The cost of a pizza.

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