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Thread: Microsoft to patch 17-year-old computer bug

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Microsoft to patch 17-year-old computer bug

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8499859.stm

    I'll let you read this piece for yourselves, but do want to call out this tantalizing bit:

    Mr Ormandy has found a way to exploit this utility in Windows XP, Windows Server 2003 and 2008 as well as Windows Vista and Windows 7.
    You are cordially invited to toss my salad. There's an app for that!

  2. #2
    Considering that there has never been so much as one exploit of this vulnerability in the 17 years it's existed shows how 'dangerous' it really is.

    How about reading this 'news' instead?

    'Snow Leopard less secure than Vista or Windows 7 says security expert'

    http://www.geekwithlaptop.com/snow-l...ecurity-expert
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Considering that there has never been so much as one exploit of this vulnerability in the 17 years it's existed shows how 'dangerous' it really is.

    How about reading this 'news' instead?

    'Snow Leopard less secure than Vista or Windows 7 says security expert'

    http://www.geekwithlaptop.com/snow-l...ecurity-expert
    So whats your point? Do you spend all your time looking for obscure and questionable trivia.

    I have made a career in the semi-conductor industry. More from the hardware (chip level) end than software but still have experience with software. I actually started out using Microsoft based operating systems. However, at one of my companies I worked for all they had were Mac systems so had to learn to use those. At first was not happy with that but after becoming familiar with them learn to appreciate what the Apple operating system had to offer. Since then have owned both Windows systems and Mac systems and extensively used Windows systems at work. So I have had a chance to get to know both well. Including understang what each had to offer on the hardware level.
    What have I purchased for my own use for the last 15 years? Macs... I also found it was easier to bring my report writting home and do it on a Mac and save it so my Windows system at work could use it. Nothing like repeatatly having your Windows system crash loosing all that you had written for the previous hour. I could have been saving my work every 15 mins or so on the WIndows system or just write in my Mac that maybe crashed 1 or 2 times a year and even then what you were working on was still there as it was.

    So can you say you have extensive experience on both systems? I doubt it, more likely you are a Windows user afraid to try an honest look at a Mac. Just reacting to your own fears/insecurities. Normal human reactions and as I said I had the same before being forced to learn a new OS.

    I have used virus and intrusion protection on all my Macs. The only problems I have ever found were "Window" viruses/trojan horses associated with data / files I brought home from work. No threat to my Mac though. Interesting is that my work Windows system had virus protection and was maintained by my company IT dept but did not find these same viruses/trojan horses. So my Mac could find Windows viruses that my Windows system could not. I found that funny. So over all that time never 1 problem with my Mac systems but numerious problems with my well maintained and protected Windows systems.

    You know that the current Mac OS is a GUI on top of Unix? Unix being known for not being vulnerable and known for stability. Apple being smart enough to switch from their old base to Unix base when they went to their OS 10.X OS. Took then a few revisions to get it right but since 10.2 they have.

    So whatever some obscure, questionable "expert" has to say, experience trumps all that. Never 1 problem on my Mac but many problems on my Windows systems. Therefore the Mac OS is more secure. Anything else is just BS excuses.

    One other thing I noticed was that Windows was nearly a decade behind the Mac OS. So want to see where Windows will be like in 10 years, then look at the Mac OS of today.

    So I fully expect some angry, possible personal attack. The only defense of the desperate when they have no real constructive comment. So......
    Last edited by mass1965; 02-06-2010 at 09:46 PM.

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    No you di'int... I'm gonna get my popcorn ready to watch this drama...
    Last edited by Voyager; 02-06-2010 at 09:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mass1965 View Post
    So whats your point? Do you spend all your time looking for obscure and questionable trivia. ...
    Very well said mass1965.

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    >>> EDITED BY MOD 11: Post removed since the quoted post was removed. <<<
    Last edited by Mod 11; 03-10-2010 at 09:25 PM.
    Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction) English, motherfu*ker, do you speak it?

    Typical Yankee fan in the Merb Sports Section!! Bwwaahh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mass1965 View Post
    ... my Mac that maybe crashed 1 or 2 times a year and even then what you were working on was still there as it was.
    Boy, you must be having some serious bad luck, friend. Between the Macs in my shop and the two we use at home, it's been over 32 user years since the last crash.
    The mounties always get their man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    ...most security experts consider 7 to be more secure than OS-X.
    Don't you mean "insecure" experts. There was an article in Business Week last year that postulated that IT departments would be decimated by unemployment if their employers went over to Macs. The reasoning was that they wouldn't be needed. I know that the busiest people at the University where my ex works are the IT guys who are constantly frantically trying to keep their network operating.
    Last edited by Mod 11; 03-10-2010 at 09:30 PM.
    The mounties always get their man.

  9. #9
    Right. Business Week, that bastion of computer experts. Did they consider that the cost of replacing the existing PC infrastructure with Macs, replacing all the related software with the equivalent Mac versions (even if it were possible) and the cost of re-training all the employees would decimate most companies? Not to mention that Apple isn't even a player in the business server space where Microsoft rules. The proposal is not only unrealistic, it's impossible. And even if it were achieved, then Macs would become the main target of virus and malware writers and we would be no more secure than we are today. In fact we'd probably be much less secure due to the typical Mac user's mistaken belief that they are inherently more secure than Windows, which any security expert who knows what he is talking about would be happy to tell you isn't true.

    As for where you ex works, I suggest they take a look at their technical staff and hire people who are able to do the job properly. Because if they're having that much trouble with their network, the damn thing is being maintained by incompetents.
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

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    A few problems with your argument, which, in fact, makes the argument for the switch better than I ever could.

    1. Retraining. Macs don't require the hours and hours of training that PCs do. In fact, most users can use them out of the box. I'm no IT guy, yet I'm perfectly capable of setting up a Mac network. It's that simple.
    2. Replacing all the hardware and software would be recaptured within the first year in payroll savings and in the added productivity of those who spend a considerable amount of time waiting for their networks to start working again.
    3. Malware and viruses aren't the problem. The problem is two-fold: the labyrinthian structure of the Windoze operating system and the fact that Microsoft won't let a little thing like a few thousand bugs interfere with their release date of a new operating system. Or with their need to copy new features that show up in the Mac OS as quickly as possible.

    No, it's true their aren't as many Macs as PCs. There also aren't as many Fords as Mercedes.
    The mounties always get their man.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    You mean like people who post 'news' about a 17 year old bug that has never affected even one system?

    Seriously, mass, have you ever seen a Windows 7 system? Or did your Windows knowledge stop with Win 98? Considering that you think OS-X is a GUI over UNIX, that alone proves that you don't know a thing you are posting about. The Apple OS-X operating system is based on OPENSTEP which was being developed by Steve Jobs and his company NeXT as a replacement for Nextstep. All of these various OS are based on XNU which was a combination of the Mach kernel and BSD. Obviously this is a greatly simplified description of the developement as the entire thing would take pages.

    By the way...XNU is an acromyn for X is Not Unix.

    So stating that OS-X is simply a GUI over UNIX, is an oversimplification at best and dead wrong in actuality.

    Oh yeah...I support 16 SCO UNIX servers with a total of about 500 users. So yes, I an familiar with UNIX.

    As for Snow Leopard being '10 years ahead' of Win 7', if you mean in terms of dropping backwards compatibility with a large portion of the Mac installed base, those who run Power PC CPU powered systems, you're right because it may be 10 years or more before MS abandons such a large portion of their installed base. But other than that, most professionals consider 7 to be ahead of 10.6 both in functionality and security. And if you think 10.6 is an improvement, it has proved to be the buggiest Mac OS in recent history.

    Of course you being a Mac fanatic blinds you to the fact that the only reason Macs are 'safer' than PCs is because there are so few of them in comparison. Usually the term 'there's safety in numbers' refers to large groups, in Apple's case it works in reverse. If you compare Windows 7 to Mac OS, a fair comparison seeing as there are already more Win 7 systems than all Mac systems combined, you will find that most security experts consider 7 to be more secure than OS-X.

    But when you come down to it, the bottom line is that it's great that you're happy with the system you have and use. So am I with Win 7. But unlike yourself, and many Mac users, I have no overwhelming desire or need to have to prove that my choice is the better one. Use whatever makes you happy. If you have to believe that your choice is so much better than 95% of computer users to be happy about your choice, then so be it.
    You are laughable, What was all the above about then, if not a lame attempt and inacuract attempt to defend your position. Then there is the personal level attack that I predicted, you are so easy to bait. lol Shows how insecure you realy are about this.

    Just to update you the Next idea was the original thought but was changed in favor of UNIX. The Mac OS system allows you to open a UNIX command line interface which allows one to access the UNIX core and impliment UNIX commands. Also, one of the reasons for the UNIX core was to make it easy for developers to port over UNIX apps to the Mac.

    Oh you dont have to believe my about UNIX, go to the Apple website and look under the Mac OS tech specs and you will find UNIX listed under the core technologies for the OS. And no where is Next or Nextstep mentioned.

    Here is a quote from the Apple website: "With a rock-solid UNIX foundation and powerful technologies such as Grand Central Dispatch and OpenCL, Snow Leopard unleashes the full power of your Mac."

    Page link: http://www.apple.com/search/?q=unix&sec=global

    So it looks like it is you who doesnt know what they are talking about. Just afraid to try it cause you might like it. You know it is UNIX something familiar to you.
    Last edited by mass1965; 02-07-2010 at 09:18 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    The only difference is the OS and the case. And of course...the price.
    Exactly. We agree on this. The Mac OS is the Mercedes; Windoze the Ford. And a Fiesta at that.
    The mounties always get their man.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Mass, you should think about getting your information from a source other than Apple's own website. If you think that OS-X is just a GUI over UNIX, you seriously know nothing about computers or operating systems and any discussion with you is a total waste of time. By the way, I never said that OS-X didn't have a background in UNIX. Here, I saved you the time of actually looking it up and just went to Wikipedia:



    I've found that it is generally pointless to discuss computers and operating systems with users as they just don't have a clue about what they're talking about. If you want to have an intelligent discussion, do a bit of research and learn something first instead of quoting Apple's company line of bullshit. If you can't do at least that, stop wasting my time.
    Right we should believe what you say over what is written at a reputable source. what a joke.
    I have seen a number of your posts, and you are so full of yourself and what you think you know that what really comes to mind is a blow hard talking a lot of trash about things you THINK you know something about because you read an article in some obscure rag magazine. Yes you are right pointless to discuss anything with you.
    Last edited by mass1965; 02-08-2010 at 12:24 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rumpleforeskiin View Post
    Exactly. We agree on this. The Mac OS is the Mercedes; Windoze the Ford. And a Fiesta at that.
    Well I only agree with you on the Mac is a Mercedes part, Windoze is more like a Yugo than a Ford. At lease you can expect the Ford to run and reliably get you where you want. Windoze and the Yugo are a different matter....lol

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Mass, you should think about getting your information from a source other than Apple's own website. If you think that OS-X is just a GUI over UNIX, you seriously know nothing about computers or operating systems and any discussion with you is a total waste of time. By the way, I never said that OS-X didn't have a background in UNIX. Here, I saved you the time of actually looking it up and just went to Wikipedia:



    I've found that it is generally pointless to discuss computers and operating systems with users as they just don't have a clue about what they're talking about. If you want to have an intelligent discussion, do a bit of research and learn something first instead of quoting Apple's company line of bullshit. If you can't do at least that, stop wasting my time.
    Oh anyone can go to Wikipeda for information. Maybe that is you source of vast information?
    anyway not selecting to try to make a weak point as you did this is what Wikipeda realy eays:
    Mac OS X (pronounced /mæk oʊ ɛs tɛn/)[4] is an operating system developed, marketed, and sold by Apple Inc., and since 2002 has been included with all new Macintosh computer systems. It is the successor to Mac OS 9, the final release of the "classic" Mac OS, which had been Apple's primary operating system since 1984.

    Mac OS X, whose "X" represents the Roman numeral for "10" and is a prominent part of its brand identity, is a Unix-based operating system,[5] built on technologies developed at NeXT between the second half of the 1980s and Apple's purchase of the company in late 1996. Its sixth release Mac OS X v10.5 "Leopard" gained UNIX 03 certification while running on Intel processors.[1]

    The first version released was Mac OS X Server 1.0 in 1999, and a desktop-oriented version, Mac OS X v10.0 "Cheetah" followed on March 24, 2001. Releases of Mac OS X are named after big cats: for example, Mac OS X v10.6 is usually referred to by Apple and users as "Snow Leopard". The server edition, Mac OS X Server, is architecturally identical to its desktop counterpart, and includes tools to facilitate management of workgroups of Mac OS X machines, and to provide access to network services. These tools include a mail transfer agent, a Samba server, an LDAP server, a domain name server, and others. It is pre-loaded on Apple's Xserve server hardware, but can be run on almost all of Apple's current selling computer models[6].

    Apple also produces specialized versions of Mac OS X for use on four of its consumer devices: the iPhone OS for the iPhone, iPod Touch,[7] and iPad, as well as an unnamed version for the Apple TV.[8]

    Note it says Unix based and Unix 3 certified. Yes they based OS10 on the Next system, but only used the GUI interface. To save you from having to run to Wikipedia Techman it means Graphical User Interface, and that it is used to make and easy user interface to Unix. Also BSD is a certified variant of Unix. So even in your reply you are saying OSX has Unix as its core.

    I found that your inability to admit you were wrong or partly wrong insisting only you had the real info, trying to defend undefendable positions with personal attacks ruined any credibility you had in my mind long ago.
    Last edited by mass1965; 02-08-2010 at 02:05 AM.

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