Montreal Escorts

Laws in Canada

duetoday

Member
Jul 16, 2008
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between you and "them"
Only one advice:Shut up...NEVER make any declaration...none...nothing....not even what you do for a living or if you play golf...or how is the weather just SHUT THE HELL UP
and ask for a lawyer.If you do that you will never be in trouble.This is good for all of you:clients,providers,"innocent" bystanders (the pizza guy who happen to be there at the wrong time),landlords,telephone operators,merbites or not. And is valid at all times,not just the hobby,the nice understanding cop is NOT your friend,he is doing his job...
 
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steez

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Aug 23, 2010
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questions about the law.

I'm new here. I've never seen an escorte before but I've always wanted too. Is seeing a prostitue illegal? I would like someone to inform me on the "rules" to this game .. I don't want to get in trouble!

safer? Incall....outcall?? help please!
 

freestuff

New Member
Jan 2, 2010
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Outcalls are 100% legal. Incalls, SWs, extras in massage parlors and strip clubs are illegal. HTH.
 

jeff jones

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Mar 23, 2009
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At cleo's
asking as well as offering money for sex gratification is illegal .

I never,never, never pay for sex when i am in montreal, i pay for companionship only but it is amazing all these ladies seem to like me so much they all end up having sex with me for free:)
 

steez

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Aug 23, 2010
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What about being a driver for some ladys, is that considered a "pimp" .. I was looking into doing it for a while I just would like to know what I would be up against.. I don't want to get in trouble:S
 

daydreamer41

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Feb 9, 2004
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asking as well as offering money for sex gratification is illegal .

Read the link. Your statement is not 100 percent correct unless you add the words in public.

Asking as well as offering money for sex gratification in public is illegal. Unless you are in an incall place, you are doing nothing illegal in Canada.
 

freestuff

New Member
Jan 2, 2010
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What about being a driver for some ladys, is that considered a "pimp" .. I was looking into doing it for a while I just would like to know what I would be up against.. I don't want to get in trouble:S

Yeah, that's illegal.
 

daydreamer41

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Feb 9, 2004
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Here we go again with laws in Canada. Instead of going by our own interpretation , better to read the law itself. Here is the link: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/content/LOP/ResearchPublications/prb0330-e.htm#criminalcode

Remember that there is speed limit of 100 on the highways , you can drive at 140 and not been caught , if you are , you will have a fine ; you can drive at 118 , still over the limit , being caught and not have a fine . There is a lot of tolerance , just do not abuse of it . Use your own judgment.

Play safe and have fun .

Ok Roger. I actually read the Statue. Where does it apply to Outcall situations? I do not think it does, but maybe you can point it out to me.

2. Procurement
The offence of procurement is contained in s. 212 and carries the toughest penalty for prostitution-related offences under the Criminal Code, with potential imprisonment of up to 14 years for offences relating to minors.

Section 212(1) lists various methods of procurement and states that a person committing such crimes is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years. However, ss. 212(2) and (2.1) expand this offence for situations dealing with minors. Under s. 212(2), a person who lives on the avails of prostitution of a minor is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years. Section 212(2.1) provides a further offence punishable by imprisonment for up to 14 years, but not less than 5 years, for a person who lives on the avails of prostitution of a minor and who, for the purposes of profit, aids, abets, counsels or compels the minor to engage in prostitution, and who uses, threatens to use or attempts to use violence, intimidation or coercion against the minor. Finally, s. 212(4) states that every person who obtains for consideration, or communicates with anyone for the purpose of obtaining for consideration, the sexual services of a minor, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years.

Section 212(3) relates to the evidence necessary for a charge under s. 212. Evidence that a person lives with or is habitually in the company of a prostitute or lives in a common bawdy-house is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, proof that the person lives on the avails of prostitution.

Procurement essentially refers to an act of persuasion. This accordingly excludes situations where the person whose sexual services are being sold is already or subsequently becomes a prostitute of his or her own free will.(27) Procurement encompasses the following situations:


■requiring or attempting to require an employee to have sexual intercourse with a client;(28)
■enticing someone who is not a prostitute into becoming a prostitute or into a bawdy-house for the purposes of illicit sexual intercourse or prostitution;
■procuring a person to enter or leave Canada for the purposes of prostitution;
■controlling or influencing another person for gain in order to facilitate prostitution;(29)
■intoxicating a person for the purpose of enabling anyone to have sexual intercourse with the intoxicated person; and
■living on the avails of prostitution.

On this last point, there is a rebuttable presumption that a person who lives with a prostitute, is in the habitual company of a prostitute, or lives in a common bawdy-house, lives on the avails of prostitution.(30) This offence connotes a form of parasitic living on a prostitute’s earnings, where an accused must have directly received all or part of the prostitute’s proceeds from prostitution.(31)

As noted above, the penalty for procurement offences is raised when the prostitute is under 18, creating an additional offence for situations in which the procurer lives on the avails of a child involved in prostitution and uses threats or violence to compel such prostitution.

Most importantly, s. 212(4) states that it is an offence to obtain or to communicate for the purpose of obtaining the sexual services of any person under 18 for consideration. Thus, solicitation of a prostitute who is a minor is always illegal.(32) It is no defence to say that the accused believed the complainant was 18 years old.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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DD,
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Another way to turn around it is to "recruit" to make a porn movie . You install your camera in the room , with webcam , it is very easy. Than this is not prostitution, it is "art" .


I don't know art but I know what I like! Porno's or portraits of Elvis in Velvetine
 

daydreamer41

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DD,
Continue reading:
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3. Offences in Relation to Prostitution
Offences related to the act of prostitution itself revolve around the issue of solicitation and the use of public space. These offences pertain to:


s. 213(1) Every person who in a public place or in any place open to public view


a.stops or attempts to stop any motor vehicle,
b.impedes the free flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic or ingress to or egress from premises adjacent to that place, or
c.stops or attempts to stop any person or in any manner communicates or attempts to communicate with any person for the purpose of engaging in prostitution or of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
(2) In this section, “public place” includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied, and any motor vehicle located in a public place or in any place open to public view.


The actual act of exchanging sexual gratification for consideration is not in itself illegal. However, it is illegal to engage in prostitution or to obtain the sexual services of a prostitute in a public place. This restriction encompasses stopping or attempting to stop a motor vehicle, and communicating or attempting to communicate in any manner for the purpose of engaging in prostitution or of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute.

Section 197(1) defines “public place” as any place to which the public has access as of right or by invitation, whether express or implied. This includes any place that is open to public view, including a car, even one in motion, that is on a public street.(33) However, a plainclothes police officer’s car is not considered a public
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As far as I know , anybody walking by the street can enter in a hotel or motel and even a massage place , than these places are considered "public places" . If you are at the room hotel and call your escort , she is accessing by invitation than it is illegal.

BUT , if you pick up the gentlelady at the bar of the hotel this is a different story. The bars have always and will remain the best places to pick-up and be safe . . . as long as you do not aske or offer sex gratification for sex game .

Another way to turn around it is to "recruit" to make a porn movie . You install your camera in the room , with webcam , it is very easy. Than this is not prostitution, it is "art" .

It has been explained to me over and over by reading these boards that a hotel room or a residence is not a public place in Canada. You are renting the space and therefore it is private. You are taking the law further than it goes. by saying she is accessing your room via a public place, therefore it makes the act illegal. Canada has no loitering laws as per prostitution.

The law as far as solicitation goes is the solicitation can not be in a public place, not that one has to travel thru a public place to go to a private place.

Sorry, Roger, I do not think you are correct.
 

daydreamer41

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...2) In this section, “public place” includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied...
They are not my words. Here where they come from : http://www2.parl.gc.ca/content/LOP/ResearchPublications/prb0330-e.htm#criminalcode

We all understand we navigate in a grey zone subject to interpretation . Probably the new Court battle this month in Ontario will tighten or soften the rules .
Read more: https://merb.cc/vbulletin//showthread.php?62110-All-these-questions-regarding-the-law
Who knows what the future reserve us ?

You, Roger, are taking this so out of context, it is not even funny. The Section that you are referencing applies to communicating about engaging about prostitution. And what is abundantly clear, you cannot solicit in public. So an SP walking thru the lobby of your hotel is not illegal. She is not communicating anything. If Canada had loitering laws for the purposes of prostitution, then you would have a point. But they don`t. Some states in the US have loitering laws in relationship to prostitution and some do not.

This court case coming up in Ontario challenges the entire prostitution statue. Read the article.
 

gugu

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Feb 11, 2009
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...2) In this section, “public place” includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied...
They are not my words. Here where they come from : http://www2.parl.gc.ca/content/LOP/ResearchPublications/prb0330-e.htm#criminalcode

And, of course, your home is a public place the minute you invite a friend for diner?????

Roger, a public place is a place where the public has access. The public has no access to your hotel room, neither to the phone cable that you use to arrange a meeting.

We all understand we navigate in a grey zone subject to interpretation.

The grey zone concerning hotel rooms has nothing to do with article 213 (solicitation) of the criminal code. It has to do with article 210 (bawdy house).
 

Royal

Out of Order
Jun 25, 2010
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I think all's been said. Maybe the mods should put this up as an ATTN message concerning the law, no? A thread for all merbites to read. The law isn't that hard to understand now is it? Or maybe we should do a synopsis of it all so that noobies don't nag everyone with the same questions again. By the way Roger, it's not just that a place needs to be public, the summary conviction of 213 applies to the acts stated in 213(1) a, b, c and only those specific prohibited acts (not to the sections on a Bawdy House as gugu and daydreamer stated), and the acts of 213 have inherent conditions in their wording, and that's why I say specific, cause they're very specific:

213(1) Ccr
(a) stops or attempts to stop any motor vehicle (no motor vehicles in a Hotel Room, in your house, not when you do Outcalls or Incalls, this applies to street hookers and so on)
(b) impedes the free flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic or ingress to or egress from premises adjacent to that place, or (You don't impede any flow of traffic in any ways by inviting someone into your house or hotel room by appointment with your phone or sms or merb PMs, this applies to you when you stop your car and impede traffic in order to have a hooker come into your car with the intention of engaging in prostitution or obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute)
(c) stops or attempts to stop any person or in any manner communicates or attempts to communicate with any person for the purpose of engaging in prostitution or of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. (This, is if you randomly ask or stop a person, on the street, inquiring about/for sexual services... )

I wonder though, if we stretch it far enough, if this (c) section might not be the only prohibited act that could maybe apply to public forums like Merb. You see 213(1)(c) makes it an offence to communicate in any manner (or attempt to do so) for those prohibited purposes. Communication in a public thread (open to public view) with the intention of engaging in prostitution is an interesting debate. I'd be interested in knowing what Gugu and Daydreamer have to say about it. I think they would tell me that "place" is defined in s. 197 of the Criminal Code, and that an internet forum isn't considered a place, lol.

I would agree with them, and since our computers are home, we're not communicating in a "public place", and neither are our communications in a 'place' open to public view; and since most communication that are "engaged" for the purposes of prostitution are made by PM, they're not public either. But what of the advertisement made by the advertisers.... Hmmm, since a newspaper isn't a place but an information carrier, then any other form of such information carrying should not be considered a place either. Still, the definition of place doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't include "an internet public forum" either, if the authorities are crooked enough, maybe they could consider a forum meant for such exchanges as being a 'virtual place', a new interpretation that would not contradict the definition of s. 197. A young smart substitute crown prosecutor could try his luck on that, see what the judge thinks, hehe. He might be lucky, might be a case for the Supreme Court too haha. But I don't think it could ever apply to merb or anyother forum since like I said, the internet is a like a newspaper, and since agencies advertise in newspapers then they can advertise on forums and on internet websites without being prosecuted for it (that is, as long as those threads in the forums are closed to replies like in merb), hence the prosecution would definitely lose its case. No, the law is as it is, if it is to change, parliament needs to change it.

So, 213(1)(c) only applies to the street or any other public "place", so we're all safe merbites :)
 
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Royal

Out of Order
Jun 25, 2010
140
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Montreal
Oh, I have a legal anecdote for Gugu and Daydreamer: A guy in a coffee shop is using a large Laptop, and is going on Merb, and is PMing various agencies to get an appointment, people see him doing so, would you consider this an offence under 213(1)(c). I'm curious of your answers. Also, what about communicating verbally, by cell phone, talking loud in a very public place, to arrange a meeting with an escort and explicitely stipulate it as such. Are you guilty of 213(1)(c). To communicate doesn't necessarily mean face to face with a prostitute now does it? Hehe, I think 213(1)(c) could apply... Hehe. Let's see what you think :)
 

daydreamer41

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Oh, I have a legal anecdote for Gugu and Daydreamer: A guy in a coffee shop is using a large Laptop, and is going on Merb, and is PMing various agencies to get an appointment, people see him doing so, would you consider this an offence under 213(1)(c). I'm curious of your answers. Also, what about communicating verbally, by cell phone, talking loud in a very public place, to arrange a meeting with an escort and explicitely stipulate it as such. Are you guilty of 213(1)(c). To communicate doesn't necessarily mean face to face with a prostitute now does it? Hehe, I think 213(1)(c) could apply... Hehe. Let's see what you think :)

It would probably apply if someone was upset about it and called the police and made a complaint. If he were going on MERB and just looked at the site, I am not sure if it would apply or not.

I have met women in an elevator in a hotel who I thought was a SP. I said nothing. I have run into a SP who I have been with. I discussed nothing except to say hello, how are you doing. I do not think discussing such matters in public is wise or respectful regardless of the law. This SP just smiled and went along her way.

Can you socialize with a known SP in public under the law? I think so. As long as you do not communicate anything about solicitation about sex.

I really think that the law you quoted 213(1)(c) was intended for 2 purposes. The first being to go after Street prostitution. The second being to prevent a rude individual from soliciting any woman in public. The third possibility that you brought up is probably applied only recently with the invention of wireless telephones and computers. I could see a Judge applying it to the current law.
 

gugu

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Feb 11, 2009
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Oh, I have a legal anecdote for Gugu and Daydreamer: A guy in a coffee shop is using a large Laptop, and is going on Merb, and is PMing various agencies to get an appointment, people see him doing so, would you consider this an offence under 213(1)(c). I'm curious of your answers. Also, what about communicating verbally, by cell phone, talking loud in a very public place, to arrange a meeting with an escort and explicitely stipulate it as such. Are you guilty of 213(1)(c). To communicate doesn't necessarily mean face to face with a prostitute now does it? Hehe, I think 213(1)(c) could apply... Hehe. Let's see what you think :)

Of course, this is only a legal game. Chances of that happening are very weak.

1 For the Internet café, I would think that your immediate neighbors have no business watching what you do on your computer. Period. Of course, if you are watching pornography, the caf� owners may legitimately forbid you to do it. It may be disturbing anyone who has no specific intention to look at what you are doing but whom eyes may cross your computer screen.

2 For the cell phone, let�s admit that the one doing it has a clear intention to be eared. That would be more an act of indecency imho, not solicitation.

3 Bear in mind that in both cases, the police has to have witnessed the act.

Anyway...

As daydreamer said, it is important to understand the intents of the laws, including the criminal code, before attempting to see how the police could use abusive methods in applying it, methods to which judges are quite intolerant.

In my opinion, the legislators had two main intents. the first was to keep public order against harassment and indecency. Article 213 on solicitation does not fight prostitution in general nor street prostitution in particular. It simply wants to keep it off public eyes for morality reasons and prevent harassment of people, man or women, walking on the street (a public place) and not involved in prostitution as providers or potential client. The second main intent was to protect sex workers against pimps. That explains article 210 (bawdy houses), 211 (driving someone to a bawdy house) and 212 (pimping).

I think the intents are fundamentally good. The question to be asked is whether the means (the four articles of the criminal code) used to attain those objectives work or not. The basic argument of Libovitch, Scott and Bedford presently before the Superior Court of Ontario (judgment coming at the end of September) is that these articles of the criminal code do not work. Not only do they fail in protecting the sex workers, but they are, to the contrary, dangerous for the sex workers because they force them to work in dangerous secluded spaces.
 
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