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Thread: A Better Mousetrap: Improving Agency Business Models

  1. #1
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    A Better Mousetrap: Improving Agency Business Models

    Montreal’s agencies are making two major miscalculations in the business model which they follow and which are costing them considerable money. The purpose of the business is to generate revenue and the way to do that is to maximize girls’ contact time. Why then are all of Montreal’s agencies following the same flawed plan?

    The two key miscalculations:

    1. Massive undercharging on calls outside of central Montreal. Agencies are charging $20 to go to the West Island, Laval, the South Shore, and the East End. There’s one word for this: nuts. A trip from downtown to Laval, for example, is going to take 30 minutes at the best of times, an hour in the worst. The driver is going to spend $10-$15 for gas alone while the girl's income potential for the evening is reduced by $90-$180. Furthermore, by exposing both the driver and girls to Montreal's wildly unpredictable traffic conditions, the risk of late arrivals at subsequent dates and possible cancellations by angry clients, sullying the agency's reputation, is escalated. A trip to the South Shore or West Island costs the agency $120-$200 between direct expense and lost income potential and for that they charge $20. Can someone please explain this to me?

    2. Not encouraging multi-hour dates. One hour dates mean more time in the car. More time in the car means fewer dollars in the till. As I will demonstrate, a $180/$320/$440 rate structure will not only bring in more money overall, but will drastically reduce lateness to appointments and provide a sharp reduction in the amount of time girls are spending in the cars. The net result: fewer angry clients, happier girls.

    Here are a couple of selective scenarios:

    1. Agency charges $180 per hour. Girl works from 4 pm to 2 am, a 10 hour shift.

    Call 1: 4 pm, Hyatt downtown, 1 hour. $180.
    Call 2: 5:30 pm, Chablis St. Jacques, 1 hour. Driver is 10 minutes late picking the girl up due to traffic. Rush hour traffic causes further delay. Girl doesn’t arrive at Chablis until 6:00. $180.
    Call 3: 7:00 pm, Rosemont. Delayed until 7:30 due to problems with call 2. Girl gets to Rosemont at 7:45. $180.
    Call 4: 8:30 pm, Sheraton. Customer cancels when he learns that the girl won’t arrive before 9:15. The call is not replaced.
    Call 4: 10:30 pm, Laval., 1 hour. $200. After the previous cancellation, she arrives at Laval on time.
    Call 5: 12:30 pm, Chablis, 1 hour, $180.
    5 calls: $880, 5 hours of customer contact, 4.5 hours in car, $92.63 in revenues per hour on duty

    Note that this is not a worst case scenario. Imagine what this would look like if there had been more than one call beyond the center of Montreal Island. Imagine if the Laval call had been at 6:30 or if there'd been a South shore call at the same time.

    2. Agency charges $180/$320/$440.
    Call 1. 4 pm, Westmount, 3 hours, $440.
    Call 2. 7:30 pm, Old Montreal, 2 hours, $320.
    Call 3. 10:00 pm, Vogue, 1 hour, $180.
    Call 4. 11: 30 pm, Mile End, 2 hours, $320.
    4 calls: $1260, 8 hours customer contact, 1.5 hours in car. $132.63 in revenues per hour on duty

    There are a few things at play here.
    1. The more calls a girl has, the more time she has to spend in the car between calls. Time spent in the car is wasted. Not only does it generate no income, but because of Montreal’s traffic nightmare, her arrival time at appointments becomes more unpredictable the more times she has to be transported and the farther she needs to be transported.

    2. The more money a girl makes, the happier she is. The less time she has to spend in the car, the happier she is. The happier the girls are, the easier recruitment becomes for the agency.

    3. The less driving an agency has to do to get girls to their calls, the better will be their record of on-time delivery. The better this track record, the happier the customer. The happy customer is the one who will call back.

    4. Drivers are getting a little more money for driving to the outlying areas and they’re spending most of it on gas. When you consider wear and tear on their vehicles, they are actually losing money. And that doesn’t even take into consideration the time they are wasting and the loss of income to driver, booker, agency and girl. The girl’s most valuable commodity is not her looks or her service: it is her time. In scenario one above, the young lady spent over 4 hours in the car, earning nothing. Nothing for her, nothing for the agency, nothing for the driver, nothing for the booker.

    In the scenario above, the girl spent an average of 45 minutes between calls. That’s $135 not earned at full rate. Discounting the second hour at a rate of $140 turns that nothing into $105 earned. Discounting the third hour at a rate of $120 turns that nothing into $90 earned. It’s quite easy to see how the girl in scenario 2 above generated $380 more than the girl in scenario 1 in the same amount of time. She had three more hours of customer contact, three fewer hours in the back seat.

    The question of what to do about calls to outlying areas is the trickiest thing here. The clearest fact is simple: the agencies are adding a $10-$20 charge to travel to these places and that money is going to the driver. He is losing money on the trip and the girl is losing time, earning nothing. In point of fact, the agency should be charging $40-$50 for the driver and $90 for the girl’s time. Instead, they’re getting $20 when they should be getting $130. Wow!! The choices are three: 1) continue to take this beating, 2) raise the charge for trips to the South Shore, West Island, etc., 3) discontinue service to the outlying areas. None of these answers is a good one. Choice one is expensive, choice two will lose business to competitors who continue to absorb the beating, choice three will require the agency to find another way to make up the lost business.

    In the end, choice three is the logical one. And the way to make up the lost business is by generating longer appointments.

    In summary, not a single agency in Montreal is making an effort to maximize the girls’ number one asset: her time. By operating under a business model that does nothing to encourage multi-hour dates, they are exposing the girls to long periods of inactivity between calls.

    What I’m suggesting here isn’t perfect, but it is certainly a much, much better model than any agency is operating under today. And, no, no, no, no, I’m not going into the business. This was just a bit of exercise on an off night for the Red Sox.
    Last edited by rumpleforeskiin; 06-24-2011 at 09:11 AM.
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    When it comes to multi hr dates i do agree that the agencies could do a much better job of promoting them by reducing the cost of the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th hr. When the dust settles for the day the more multi hr dates the girl has the more money the girl and the agency makes. There is less wasted time for the girl plus it is also easier and less stressful on her, which makes for a happier sp.

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    I have always thought most agencies have multi hour tier pricing that does not make much sense. I usually just negotiate with the agency owner a deal I think is fair if I book 3.5, 4 or 5 hour dates as I have in the past. However, I agree that if the multi hour tier pricing made sense in the 1st place, it might induce more calls for such bookings in the 1st place. It would also scuttle the need for having to negotiate things that really should not be negotiated, like the agency obviously saving on $20 driver fees with each hour, a savings which is often not even reflected in the tier pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver View Post
    I have always thought most agencies have multi hour tier pricing that does not make much sense. I usually just negotiate with the agency owner a deal I think is fair if I book 3.5, 4 or 5 hour dates as I have in the past. However, I agree that if the multi hour tier pricing made sense in the 1st place it might induce more calls for such bookings in the 1st place and would scuttle the need for having to negotiate things that really should not be negotiated, like the agency obviously saving on $20 driver fees with each hour, which is often not even reflected in the tier pricing.
    Agree, Beav, though the $20 driver fee (not to mention the booker's fee) is small change compared to the loss of earning potential lost to time in the car, when tier pricing could reduce car time and increase contact time with clients.

    And, of course, as Jeff says and, which I didn't mention, longer dates are considerably less stressful on the girls, further increasing their earning potential by increasing their ability to work more hours in a shift without burning out.
    Last edited by rumpleforeskiin; 06-24-2011 at 08:57 AM.
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  5. #5
    Hi Rumple,

    I fully agree with your assessment I also don't understand why agencies don't offer a better deal on longer dates and your right; the traffic in Montreal is killer, especially these days.

    The only proviso I would add to your assessment is that in chatting with many girls, a lot of them are not really interested in longer dates. They would explain that if they are with an uninspiring client they could always keep up the pretense for the first hour but after that things would unravel. For any girls reviewed with 'mechanical' service you would understand that it would be the norm and not the exception.

    Also, not much in the way of 'loyalty' discounts out there. Have to laugh at the idea of throwing in loyalty as a concept in a comments about hobbying.

    BTW my favorite bang for the buck (pardon the pun) is 1.5hrs; by my calculation its twice the sex at only 50% costs premium. You get to take a few minutes at each end not to rush the girl and comfortably have 2 sog. Also even for good sp that just don't like long dates it's perfect for them as well.

    Dorian out

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorian View Post
    Hi Rumple,



    The only proviso I would add to your assessment is that in chatting with many girls, a lot of them are not really interested in longer dates. They would explain that if they are with an uninspiring client they could always keep up the pretense for the first hour but after that things would unravel. For any girls reviewed with 'mechanical' service you would understand that it would be the norm and not the exception.
    I have to disagree with this,from my experience and from chatting with the ladies the majority of them prefer multi hr dates, sure they are always going to get the odd client where things get a little awkward after the 1st hr because he is incapable of making conversation but for the most part they would rather 3-- 2hr dates or better yet 2--3hr dates as oppossed to 6-- 1hr dates.

  7. #7
    Hi Jeff,

    To your point, my intent when saying 'many girls' was not tu suggest a majority but rather a surprising number because like yourself my expectations was that all girls would want longer dates.

    Finally back to Rumple's post, I would suspect that part of the exercise in the present pricing is to keep the accounting simple; as we know not everyone in the business interested in spending a lot of time at the end of the evening debating discounts and upcharges.

    Dorian

  8. #8
    why dont u start an agency just to try bro?

  9. #9
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    Dorian,

    My attitude on this point is that a lot of clients would book longer dates only with SPs they have met and have established good chemistry with. Of course the SP may feel otherwise. If it is a first date, the client takes a calculated risk that the lady will be comfortable with him and that is a roll of the dice.

    If you are booking a 4 hour date and taking her to dinner, chances are that most SPs are going to be comfortable for that portion of the date, regardless of chemistry issues. If it is a 4 hour bang session, something I am not interested in doing even if I had the physical capability of 4 SOGs which I don't, I could see SP chemistry being more important.

    I agree with your point that most agency pricing structures are dictated by accounting simplicity. Some agencies do not even offer a pricing structure beyond 3 hours. In that situation, I have called the agency owner well in advance of the scheduled date (usually days or even a week in advance), and negotiated something fair to all 3 parties. If the agency owner and girl did not think it fair, they would not accept the booking. Usually common sense negotiation will lead to something that is fair in the end. However, regarding spur of the moment 4 hour bookings, it may be more difficult to negotiate something because of the different circumstances and expectations of the agency owner and the SP. I would suggest that calling in advance rather than list minute leads to a better chance for a reasonable negotiation.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 06-24-2011 at 11:00 AM.

  10. #10
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    If I had the means and time, I'd book 3 or 4 hour sessions like EB. But I'm not as well-heeled as the great Eager Beaver. For me, 90 minute sessions has proved to be the sweet spot -- it gives me and the lady enough time to get to know each other and to have an un-rushed encounter. I like to cuddle and watch the lady please herself and shower with her. There should be better rates for 90 minute sessions, especially for Hobbyists who receive out-calls in downtown hotels.

    I've been with a couple of SP's who I just could not connect with and an hour seemed like an eternity but I don't mind ending the session early (with full payment, of course) -- hey shit happens, and no one has a perfect day every day.

    Maybe if and when I win the lottery, I can afford to have 4 hour dates with SP's and take them out to dinner. I do like seeing various SP's, especially when I'm fortunate to be able to travel up to Montreal.
    Last edited by Kansas Frank; 06-25-2011 at 04:17 PM.

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    This is a rehashed subject that I have seen on this board and commented on many times. Your conclusions make sense, but there may be a reason for the current business model held by most agencies.

    Point 1: Only $20 per hour more for locations outside of Montreal.

    If lots of their business is outside of Montreal, then they would be hesitant to charge much more per hour. If a much larger percentage of their business is in the downtown area, then $20 is probably not enough.

    Point 2: Pricing does not encourage more multi-hour encounters.

    You are correct in your calculations that the agencies would be more profitable, although slightly more profitable, since there will still be many 1 hour appointments. There are probably many local guys who may call 1 time a week or every other week for an hour appointment. I would venture to say that they make up a good percentage of their business. Tourist are a good percentage, but I would think locals are a larger percentage.

    Most agencies drop the driver's fee either after the first hour, or more likely after the second hour. There are a few agencies like Girls4UNow, I think Candyshop, the out of business TemptedtoTouch which give a slight discount for 2 hours, like $160 for 1 hour and $300 for 2 hours, or $180 for 1 hour and $320 for 2 hours, something like that.

    I agree with EB. You may be able to negotiate with an owner that you deal with alot. I have had a couple of owners that have given me better prices on a slow night for longer hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamer41 View Post
    Point 1: Only $20 per hour more for locations outside of Montreal.

    If lots of their business is outside of Montreal, then they would be hesitant to charge much more per hour. If a much larger percentage of their business is in the downtown area, then $20 is probably not enough.
    They're not charging $20 more per hour to go out of town, they're charging $20 more total. What's nuts about that is, for example, if a driver takes a girl to Point Claire and gets stuck in just a bit of traffic, it could take him 40 minutes to get there. Now, he has to twiddle his thumbs for an hour while she's inside. Then he picks her up and drives her to Outremont, another 40 minute trip. He's spent $13 on gas and has $7 left for his two hour trip, not even taking into consideration wear and tear on his car, insurance, etc. The girl, while on the road for an hour and twenty minutes and has lost approximately 3/4 of an hour of marketable time.

    What has this trip to Point Claire cost? Quebec allows a $.57 allowance per kilometer. Using the Sheraton Four Points on Sherbrooke as a starting point, the driver travels 49 km there and back. For his $27.93 and two hours of his time, he receives $40, including the out of town bonus. He's just made himself $6.04 per hour for two hours work. The girl's earning potential has been reduced by 3/4 of an hour, or $135.

    Plain and simple, taking girls to the South Shore, West Island, Laval, etc. for $20 is a bad business practice. I agree that they have no choice other than to continue or stop service to outlying areas. My point is that they can compensate for this lost time in the car by discounting multiple hour bookings.

    Here's one example. I'm currently spending a fair amount of time with a fabulous young woman who is costing me $340 - $360 for two hours, depending on the day I see her. If her rate were $180/$320/$440, I'd probably book her for three hours. While she and the agency would only be getting $120 for that third hour, that $120 eliminates, on the average, 30 minutes time in the car. They lose $60 from the full hourly rate, but gain $90 by reducing her time in the car. They have a net plus of $30.

    I'm wondering which agency, if any, will ever figure this out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumpleforeskiin View Post
    The question of what to do about calls to outlying areas is the trickiest thing here. The clearest fact is simple: the agencies are adding a $10-$20 charge to travel to these places and that money is going to the driver. He is losing money on the trip and the girl is losing time, earning nothing. In point of fact, the agency should be charging $40-$50 for the driver and $90 for the girl’s time. Instead, they’re getting $20 when they should be getting $130. Wow!! The choices are three: 1) continue to take this beating, 2) raise the charge for trips to the South Shore, West Island, etc., 3) discontinue service to the outlying areas. None of these answers is a good one. Choice one is expensive, choice two will lose business to competitors who continue to absorb the beating, choice three will require the agency to find another way to make up the lost business.

    In the end, choice three is the logical one. And the way to make up the lost business is by generating longer appointments.
    Hello Rumples,

    It all makes a lot sense if the outlying appointment type isn't just a rarity. It also makes a lot of sense if business at agencies are as slow as it's been suggested many times on multiple boards.

    For myself I have taken to requesting 90 minute encounters in order to have more encounters and avoid one-hour rush encounters. I would have been happy many times to take multiple full hour encounters if the second hour was being discounted more.

    If the scenario in your posts match up with the situation agencies are dealing with, then they should really think about altering their price structure, which would theoretically be more profitable. Or at least they should test the new model for some trial period to see how it works out to reduce their down time from both no business periods and lost business from excessive travel time. If these LOSS times are significant then those agencies with such loss need to recalculate and try the above outlined approach.

    Bravo,

    Merlot
    Last edited by Merlot; 06-25-2011 at 09:38 PM.

  14. #14
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    Merlot,
    Traffic in Montreal is an utter nightmare. It's unpredictable and there's construction everywhere. The Chablis is almost unreachable. The St. Jacques exit on the 720 is closed so you have to get on the Decarie Expressway, which makes the Southeast Expressway in Boston seem a picnic, get off at the first exit and double back down a side street, Girouard. Laval might as well be Mars. The agencies should be doing everything in their power to keep the girls with customers longer and out of the cars. If the first hour is $180, they're doing very well to get $140 for the second hour if it eliminates a ride, and they're doing even better to get $120 for the third. That's $440 for three hours and two trips in the car knocked off. It also means a relaxed three hour encounter for the girl rather than three wham-bam-thank-you-maams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumpleforeskiin View Post
    They're not charging $20 more per hour to go out of town, they're charging $20 more total. What's nuts about that is, for example, if a driver takes a girl to Point Claire and gets stuck in just a bit of traffic, it could take him 40 minutes to get there. Now, he has to twiddle his thumbs for an hour while she's inside. Then he picks her up and drives her to Outremont, another 40 minute trip. He's spent $13 on gas and has $7 left for his two hour trip, not even taking into consideration wear and tear on his car, insurance, etc. The girl, while on the road for an hour and twenty minutes and has lost approximately 3/4 of an hour of marketable time.

    What has this trip to Point Claire cost? Quebec allows a $.57 allowance per kilometer. Using the Sheraton Four Points on Sherbrooke as a starting point, the driver travels 49 km there and back. For his $27.93 and two hours of his time, he receives $40, including the out of town bonus. He's just made himself $6.04 per hour for two hours work. The girl's earning potential has been reduced by 3/4 of an hour, or $135.

    Plain and simple, taking girls to the South Shore, West Island, Laval, etc. for $20 is a bad business practice. I agree that they have no choice other than to continue or stop service to outlying areas. My point is that they can compensate for this lost time in the car by discounting multiple hour bookings.

    Here's one example. I'm currently spending a fair amount of time with a fabulous young woman who is costing me $340 - $360 for two hours, depending on the day I see her. If her rate were $180/$320/$440, I'd probably book her for three hours. While she and the agency would only be getting $120 for that third hour, that $120 eliminates, on the average, 30 minutes time in the car. They lose $60 from the full hourly rate, but gain $90 by reducing her time in the car. They have a net plus of $30.

    I'm wondering which agency, if any, will ever figure this out.
    Actually, outcall location pricing differs from agency to agency. I got this from each agency website:


    Devilish, GOF - Same rate off and on island
    XXXTASE - Minimum $10 per hour more
    Eleganza - $10 more per hour for first 2 hours West Island, Laval and South Shore
    Angel Escorts - Call them for further distances. No policy or pricelist.
    Candyshop - No policy or prices on website
    Montreal Angels - No policy or prices on website
    SexyNadya's - No policy or prices on website.
    Queen Of Spades - No policy or prices on website
    Montreal Sex City and Satin Dreamz - $20 more for the first 2 hours. Same for the 3rd onwards.
    2Hot2Touch - Same rate off and on island
    Princess - $10 more
    Top Models - call them for prices.

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