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Thread: downtown student protests - outcall disruptions

  1. #1

    downtown student protests - outcall disruptions

    From what I can see on the nightly news, the student protests have been bringing traffic and businesses in downtown Montreal to a halt.

    Have the student protests been causing problems for outcalls, ie. escorts late or, even worse, can't make it at all?

    Can anyone comment on this?
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  2. #2
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    the student protest group(s) causes about 5-10mins of disruptions immediately. then there's the whole downstream effect of that delay shortly thereafter.

    it's happened a couple of times in the last few weeks... i'm driving off to the hotel and low n behold... a moving mass of protesters (luckily they can't stand still very long, we're talking 17-27 year olds... ) brings traffic on St. Catherine St., René Lévesque blvd, de Maisonneuve blvd to a halt:

    2 mins to assemble,
    5 mins to make a statement,
    then 2-3 mins to move on and disperse to another busy street.

    the police mobilize the group(s) very efficiently on their BMW motorcycles... Montreal is so stylish!

  3. #3
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    I'm amazed that the "protests" have continued nightly for over 20 days. Let's hope a reasonable resolution will be reached and our future leaders will be able to return to classes and life can return to normal, especially now that the tourism season is about to pick up steam in earnest.

    God knows we all need for life to return to normalcy especially in this fragile economy.

  4. #4
    A reasonable solution was reached. They are going to raise their tuition to something reasonable.

    I was there last week and I witnessed two protests. 1.) there were no disruptions with the delivery of the escorts. 2.) These kids couldn't heve been more peaceful. Coincidentaly, one night I even followed the protest down St Cathrines I think for about 5 blocks and there were no incidents. The next night they moved past a bar I was drinking in and we stopped and watched. Again, no incidents.

    I came home and a family member asked about the protests involving 20,000. There were less than 1000 it looked like to me

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungry101 View Post
    A reasonable solution was reached. They are going to raise their tuition to something reasonable.
    There are those who think that education is a right, not a privilege. Among my friends in Montreal are people who teach at the four major universities in Montreal. Every single one of them supports the students without reservation.
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    It used to be that having a Ph.D. was something really exceptional that required dedication, hard work and sacrifice. In my experience now anyone with nothing better to do and the patience to stay in college long enough can achieve any diploma. I think education should be easily accessible, but should also be hard to complete.

    About the protests, the new law is going to greatly restrain those if I understand correctly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumpleforeskiin View Post
    There are those who think that education is a right, not a privilege. Among my friends in Montreal are people who teach at the four major universities in Montreal. Every single one of them supports the students without reservation.
    Rumple,

    I might be the exception. Since the beginning I'm against that strike. It's silly to believe that everybody can or should go to the university. In the academic domain if you want to reach the top you have to be better than the other. There's no utopian or silly egalitarian principle here. The survival of the wisest....

    Let the universities be free, okay, but in return select the ones with the best aptitudes.
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    "There's no utopian or silly egalitarian principle here.

    The survival of the wisest....

    ... select the ones with the best aptitudes."


    Hello Protagoras,

    On the whole this sounds very correct superficially. But there are important flaws if the definitions of "wisest" and "aptitudes" are not set to give everyone a fair chance to demonstrate these goal characteristics, or in a worst case scenario, if the definitions are designed to serve disingenuous agendas...which have happened many times.

    I am sure you were just being sincere and genuine in an overall straightforward positive sense. But I have seen these terms used as goals many times in historical references, so excuse me if they might conjure up questionable and sometimes nefarious reminders in some of my frames of references.

    As for who should go into higher education, I have no toleration for dumbing down standards for anyone that does't meet the needs and requirements of the present and the future in their chosen field. That is a strategy pandering to weakness and risking social, economic, political, and philosophical (etc) stagnation. But keep in mind that education should never only be designed simply to serve the almighty pure business profit margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siocnarf View Post
    I think education should be easily accessible, but should also be hard to complete.
    I'm not sure what that means? If you meant that standards should be set to a minimum of 100% competence, and measured accordingly as befits the goal of the function...yes, I agree. If you are demanding absolute excellence that few can reach then you are going to have a system geared to generate failure for the largest number. That would lead to wholesale disfranchisement. In my view, if it takes some longer to achieve the standards more power to them for the determination.

    Besides, academic excellence doesn't necessarily translate into field success, and some who have dropped out (see Bill Gates) have been the greatest successes.

    Cheers,

    Merlot

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    Quote Originally Posted by rumpleforeskiin View Post
    Among my friends in Montreal are people who teach at the four major universities in Montreal. Every single one of them supports the students without reservation.
    That's because teachers as well as students remember this :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF4hn...eature=related
    It shows very well by our best journalists how this gov. lied before in 2007 on the same subject and how corrupted and hypocrite this gov. is when it comes to health and education...

    So too bad for those of you who can't understand french, I'm sure you know very well what you've been talking along and what has been going on in Quebec ever since

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    Maybe I did not phrase it that well. I'm not saying it should be very hard, just that it should not be automatic. Many students are serious and hard working but there's too many of them that are there just because they don't know what else to do. I've seen many thesis defenses that were a complete joke. However, none of them were failed. Higher education used to be a privilege, now its very accessible, but there's a bad side to that too. Nowadays it's "I paid tuitions, give me my diploma".
    “Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love.”

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    "So too bad for those of you who can't understand french, I'm sure you know very well what you've been talking along and what has been going on in Quebec..."

    Hello Gentle,

    Everyone on this board should know by now that I am very sympathetic to the French. I also have purposely only written philosophically, and usually avoided giving views directly on this episode since I am reading little and not really keeping up. I haven't pretended to know all about this.

    But if anyone is saying that one can only understand this situation by being able to know or be French, then it does work out conveniently to where only one side can be right, doesn't it. I hope this isn't what was meant.

    I think the Gazette and English language news systems are probably giving good and accurate information, even if my French isn't nearly good enough to compare the English and French news services.

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...464/story.html

    "Maybe I did not phrase it that well."


    No problem Siocnarf, I was just looking for a better understanding of your meaning, and injecting my own impressions.

    Cheers bros,

    Merlot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlot View Post
    I think the Gazette and English language news systems are probably giving good and accurate information, even if my French isn't nearly good enough to compare the English and French news services. Merlot
    Then tell me what the Gazette and the english language news told you so far about what happened the last time when Charest tried to raise tuitions and why it failed !

    "You can't be accurate about something you don't say !"
    Old chinese proverb !

    If you can come up with one article today on how this gov. lied before on the exact same way and back tracked when proven that it was lying and thus... understanding why students went on strike in the first place then.... and only then you will understand how Charest laughing at the students (this spring) did escalate the whole thing into what happened.

    It's funny how all the titles about the arab spring was 'students starting those protest against a corrupted gov. who lied for years to the people'
    Everywhere else these students where looked up as having the guts that the overall population lacked for so many years.

    While here in Quebec they are being portrayed as only a minority who are just complaining and whining for a stupid small raise which doesn't even match what others are paying in Canada.

    The real problem isn't the raise, the students or the right to protest.
    It's this gov. that we all know is not in favor in Quebec's best interest.

    And students are very well informed on how exactly it's trying to make them pay in the futur for all the on-going corruption.

    So lets have it from anyone out here who think they know what is going on in Quebec : a clear simple 2012 news report on what happened in 2007.

  13. #13
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    I agree with this columnist's analysis. Sadly, he could say the same about many American universities.

    Students should be angry about what universities teach them


    By Ian Hunter, Vancouver Sun May 18, 2012

    The Quebec student tuition fee pro-tests have already cost Premier Jean Charest his minister of education; if polls are to be believed (a dubious assumption, perhaps, in light of the Wildrose debacle in Alberta) the pro-tests may yet cost the premier his job.

    For a brief moment it appeared that Charest had pulled a Liberal compromise from his frayed magician's hat; the gist of the compromise was that the increase in tuition fees would go ahead but, if all went well, no one would pay. It put me in mind of Premier Dalton McGuinty's solution to Ontario's debt crisis: appoint a respected economist, Don Drummond, to examine the problem, and then, poof, make his recommendations disappear.

    But Charest's compromise vanished almost overnight and the revolting students are back creating havoc in the streets of Montreal. Never mind the fact that tuition fees are already lower in Quebec than anywhere else in North America. Never mind that if the premier's compromise had been accepted and the fees were bumped up a bit, they would still remain the lowest in North America. Such considerations did not deter the protesters and occupiers who have smashed windows, upturned cars and hurled rocks at police.

    Now the students say their protests are about more than tuition fees: they are about "social justice" - two words that increasingly make me want to reach for a gun. The agenda is to smash corporate power and dismantle capital-ism. The students are against the oil-sands, for diversity; they are for human rights, against profit; they are against global warming, for equality. In other words, the litany of the progressive left. The CBC, our national broadcaster, that institution that brings us together and nightly explains to us who we are, takes the protesters seriously; indeed to hear the CBC tell it, they are our hope for the future.

    Former Parti Quebecois premier Lucien Bouchard does not agree. In a letter to a Montreal newspaper, Bouchard said the tuition hikes were required to compensate for Quebec's long-standing tuition freeze: "The scope of the disturbances currently being imposed on Quebec society bears no relationship to the impact of the government decision," he wrote. When a former PQ premier aligns himself with the provincial Liberal government and against the protesters and occupiers, I would conclude that, apart from the NDP and the CBC (often indistinguishable on policy matters), public support for the pro-testers is practically non-existent.

    Yet I would be sympathetic if the pro-testers directed their rage not against tuition fees but against the universities and colleges that levy them; these institutions are largely wasting the protesters' time, their formative years, and even the relatively meagre tuition fees they collect. After half a lifetime spent teaching in Canadian universities, my own rueful conclusion is that however low tuition fees are set, they are exorbitant for what's on offer.

    Canadian universities are so lacking in academic standards and institutional integrity that their degrees are practically worthless. The average liberal arts student pursuing a degree, say, in sociology or gender studies can perhaps be excused for not knowing better; the universities should not escape censure so easily. The protesting students, for the most part, are pathetic; the university system that spawned them is culpable.

    I wonder if some of the protesting students dimly sense this themselves; anyone who misled them into believing that our current educational shambles will equip them to thrive in the modern world is their real enemy, not Jean Charest. In Canada, we spend lavishly on universities that have forgotten their raison d'être. They teach useless subjects, often badly. They are run by careerists not scholars. They practise grade inflation on a Weimar Republic scale. They are hothouses of political correctness and conformist thinking. They lack financial accountability.

    If the students were protesting this, their cause would be worthy. If they resolved to change their university, they might be surprised to discover allies in unlikely places, including among faculty (present and past) heartsick at what Canadian universities have become.

    Ian Hunter is professor emeritus in the faculty of law at the University of Western Ontario. His latest book is That Time of Year.
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    Yet another one who flunked history !

    It's way past time to protest against mismanagement... this is just a begining protesting against leadership !

    How can you expect a small portion of the population working to pay for a larger one who isn't working ?
    While all along you have an immensely rich country with so much resources coming out of our a$$ while we continue to be in debt and even paying more for gas.

    It's not even capitalism that is attacked, it's not even the tarsands per se.

    It's the way this retarded way of gov. with all it's corruption is brainwashing people into thinking that we are paying so much tax because it cost a lot to get decent healthcare and education for a mere 30millions.

    We are one of the wealthiest country with one of the biggest territory to harvest from and yet we are in total debt.

    How do you explain that Norway is now sitting on one of the biggest reserve of cash ?
    By selling fish ?

    And yet they beat us year after year on social justice.

    You guys are really brainwashed !

    You don't even get off your lazy behind when the gov. laughed at you and lie to your face.

    It's the students once again just like when it started over and over again in all these countries and in the past that are better informed and willing to go in jail to save your democracy. Just like when they sent the youngs boys 18-19-20y. old at war to defend democracies.

    While old grumpies were just sitting there, watching them getting killed to save their 'freedom'.

    Look at what happened with the 'Occupy movement'. People were protesting on how wall street screwed so many and got away with it.
    Then, slowly the gov. made people think it was just a bunch of frustrated ones. And it almost completely died.

    Why ? because people don't want to take their responsabilities.
    They think by taking 10min. every 4 years to go vote is enough. After all they work hard at paying taxes.
    So they go fill their tank up. Complain about how gas is so expensive while living in an oil rich country and how we get screwed by the gov.

    And yet, when someone is taking a stand... they just sit there and complain more on how much it will cost them to pay for this.
    While never thinking that the gov. was responsible once for letting this get out of hands.

    This is the country we live in now.

    Fat, lazy, grumpy and cowards.
    The best kind of people to control and brainwash.

    Bravo !

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    Quote Originally Posted by protagoras View Post
    It's silly to believe that everybody can or should go to the university. In the academic domain if you want to reach the top you have to be better than the other. There's no utopian or silly egalitarian principle here. The survival of the wisest.....
    Reading this, one would think that you believe that having the money to attend university should be based on economic considerations rather than intellectual capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by protagoras View Post
    Let the universities be free, okay, but in return select the ones with the best aptitudes.
    If you believe that universities should be free, then you support the primary objective of the strikers, no?
    The mounties always get their man.

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