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downtown student protests - outcall disruptions

freedom3

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Jun 10, 2006
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From what I can see on the nightly news, the student protests have been bringing traffic and businesses in downtown Montreal to a halt.

Have the student protests been causing problems for outcalls, ie. escorts late or, even worse, can't make it at all?

Can anyone comment on this?
 

evillethings

Fun n games til some1...
Dec 29, 2010
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the student protest group(s) causes about 5-10mins of disruptions immediately. then there's the whole downstream effect of that delay shortly thereafter.

it's happened a couple of times in the last few weeks... i'm driving off to the hotel and low n behold... a moving mass of protesters (luckily they can't stand still very long, we're talking 17-27 year olds... ) brings traffic on St. Catherine St., René Lévesque blvd, de Maisonneuve blvd to a halt:

2 mins to assemble,
5 mins to make a statement,
then 2-3 mins to move on and disperse to another busy street.

the police mobilize the group(s) very efficiently on their BMW motorcycles... Montreal is so stylish!
 
K

Kansas Frank

I'm amazed that the "protests" have continued nightly for over 20 days. Let's hope a reasonable resolution will be reached and our future leaders will be able to return to classes and life can return to normal, especially now that the tourism season is about to pick up steam in earnest.

God knows we all need for life to return to normalcy especially in this fragile economy.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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A reasonable solution was reached. They are going to raise their tuition to something reasonable.

I was there last week and I witnessed two protests. 1.) there were no disruptions with the delivery of the escorts. 2.) These kids couldn't heve been more peaceful. Coincidentaly, one night I even followed the protest down St Cathrines I think for about 5 blocks and there were no incidents. The next night they moved past a bar I was drinking in and we stopped and watched. Again, no incidents.

I came home and a family member asked about the protests involving 20,000. There were less than 1000 it looked like to me
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Jan 20, 2007
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A reasonable solution was reached. They are going to raise their tuition to something reasonable.
There are those who think that education is a right, not a privilege. Among my friends in Montreal are people who teach at the four major universities in Montreal. Every single one of them supports the students without reservation.
 

Siocnarf

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It used to be that having a Ph.D. was something really exceptional that required dedication, hard work and sacrifice. In my experience now anyone with nothing better to do and the patience to stay in college long enough can achieve any diploma. I think education should be easily accessible, but should also be hard to complete.

About the protests, the new law is going to greatly restrain those if I understand correctly.
 

protagoras

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There are those who think that education is a right, not a privilege. Among my friends in Montreal are people who teach at the four major universities in Montreal. Every single one of them supports the students without reservation.

Rumple,

I might be the exception. Since the beginning I'm against that strike. It's silly to believe that everybody can or should go to the university. In the academic domain if you want to reach the top you have to be better than the other. There's no utopian or silly egalitarian principle here. The survival of the wisest....

Let the universities be free, okay, but in return select the ones with the best aptitudes.
 

Merlot

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Nov 13, 2008
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"There's no utopian or silly egalitarian principle here.

The survival of the wisest....

... select the ones with the best aptitudes."


Hello Protagoras,

On the whole this sounds very correct superficially. But there are important flaws if the definitions of "wisest" and "aptitudes" are not set to give everyone a fair chance to demonstrate these goal characteristics, or in a worst case scenario, if the definitions are designed to serve disingenuous agendas...which have happened many times.

I am sure you were just being sincere and genuine in an overall straightforward positive sense. But I have seen these terms used as goals many times in historical references, so excuse me if they might conjure up questionable and sometimes nefarious reminders in some of my frames of references.

As for who should go into higher education, I have no toleration for dumbing down standards for anyone that does't meet the needs and requirements of the present and the future in their chosen field. That is a strategy pandering to weakness and risking social, economic, political, and philosophical (etc) stagnation. But keep in mind that education should never only be designed simply to serve the almighty pure business profit margin.

I think education should be easily accessible, but should also be hard to complete.

I'm not sure what that means? If you meant that standards should be set to a minimum of 100% competence, and measured accordingly as befits the goal of the function...yes, I agree. If you are demanding absolute excellence that few can reach then you are going to have a system geared to generate failure for the largest number. That would lead to wholesale disfranchisement. In my view, if it takes some longer to achieve the standards more power to them for the determination.

Besides, academic excellence doesn't necessarily translate into field success, and some who have dropped out (see Bill Gates) have been the greatest successes.

Cheers,

Merlot
 

Gentle

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Dec 1, 2011
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Among my friends in Montreal are people who teach at the four major universities in Montreal. Every single one of them supports the students without reservation.

That's because teachers as well as students remember this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF4hnjkMm-M&feature=related
It shows very well by our best journalists how this gov. lied before in 2007 on the same subject and how corrupted and hypocrite this gov. is when it comes to health and education...

So too bad for those of you who can't understand french, I'm sure you know very well what you've been talking along and what has been going on in Quebec ever since :rolleyes:
 

Siocnarf

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Maybe I did not phrase it that well. I'm not saying it should be very hard, just that it should not be automatic. Many students are serious and hard working but there's too many of them that are there just because they don't know what else to do. I've seen many thesis defenses that were a complete joke. However, none of them were failed. Higher education used to be a privilege, now its very accessible, but there's a bad side to that too. Nowadays it's "I paid tuitions, give me my diploma".
 

Merlot

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"So too bad for those of you who can't understand french, I'm sure you know very well what you've been talking along and what has been going on in Quebec..."

Hello Gentle,

Everyone on this board should know by now that I am very sympathetic to the French. I also have purposely only written philosophically, and usually avoided giving views directly on this episode since I am reading little and not really keeping up. I haven't pretended to know all about this.

But if anyone is saying that one can only understand this situation by being able to know or be French, then it does work out conveniently to where only one side can be right, doesn't it. I hope this isn't what was meant.

I think the Gazette and English language news systems are probably giving good and accurate information, even if my French isn't nearly good enough to compare the English and French news services.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...nder+rules+Montreal+police/6650464/story.html

"Maybe I did not phrase it that well."


No problem Siocnarf, I was just looking for a better understanding of your meaning, and injecting my own impressions.

Cheers bros,

Merlot
 

Gentle

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I think the Gazette and English language news systems are probably giving good and accurate information, even if my French isn't nearly good enough to compare the English and French news services. Merlot

Then tell me what the Gazette and the english language news told you so far about what happened the last time when Charest tried to raise tuitions and why it failed !

"You can't be accurate about something you don't say !"
Old chinese proverb !

If you can come up with one article today on how this gov. lied before on the exact same way and back tracked when proven that it was lying and thus... understanding why students went on strike in the first place then.... and only then you will understand how Charest laughing at the students (this spring) did escalate the whole thing into what happened.

It's funny how all the titles about the arab spring was 'students starting those protest against a corrupted gov. who lied for years to the people'
Everywhere else these students where looked up as having the guts that the overall population lacked for so many years.

While here in Quebec they are being portrayed as only a minority who are just complaining and whining for a stupid small raise which doesn't even match what others are paying in Canada.

The real problem isn't the raise, the students or the right to protest.
It's this gov. that we all know is not in favor in Quebec's best interest.

And students are very well informed on how exactly it's trying to make them pay in the futur for all the on-going corruption.

So lets have it from anyone out here who think they know what is going on in Quebec : a clear simple 2012 news report on what happened in 2007.
 

CaptRenault

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Jun 29, 2003
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I agree with this columnist's analysis. Sadly, he could say the same about many American universities.

Students should be angry about what universities teach them


By Ian Hunter, Vancouver Sun May 18, 2012

The Quebec student tuition fee pro-tests have already cost Premier Jean Charest his minister of education; if polls are to be believed (a dubious assumption, perhaps, in light of the Wildrose debacle in Alberta) the pro-tests may yet cost the premier his job.

For a brief moment it appeared that Charest had pulled a Liberal compromise from his frayed magician's hat; the gist of the compromise was that the increase in tuition fees would go ahead but, if all went well, no one would pay. It put me in mind of Premier Dalton McGuinty's solution to Ontario's debt crisis: appoint a respected economist, Don Drummond, to examine the problem, and then, poof, make his recommendations disappear.

But Charest's compromise vanished almost overnight and the revolting students are back creating havoc in the streets of Montreal. Never mind the fact that tuition fees are already lower in Quebec than anywhere else in North America. Never mind that if the premier's compromise had been accepted and the fees were bumped up a bit, they would still remain the lowest in North America. Such considerations did not deter the protesters and occupiers who have smashed windows, upturned cars and hurled rocks at police.

Now the students say their protests are about more than tuition fees: they are about "social justice" - two words that increasingly make me want to reach for a gun. The agenda is to smash corporate power and dismantle capital-ism. The students are against the oil-sands, for diversity; they are for human rights, against profit; they are against global warming, for equality. In other words, the litany of the progressive left. The CBC, our national broadcaster, that institution that brings us together and nightly explains to us who we are, takes the protesters seriously; indeed to hear the CBC tell it, they are our hope for the future.

Former Parti Quebecois premier Lucien Bouchard does not agree. In a letter to a Montreal newspaper, Bouchard said the tuition hikes were required to compensate for Quebec's long-standing tuition freeze: "The scope of the disturbances currently being imposed on Quebec society bears no relationship to the impact of the government decision," he wrote. When a former PQ premier aligns himself with the provincial Liberal government and against the protesters and occupiers, I would conclude that, apart from the NDP and the CBC (often indistinguishable on policy matters), public support for the pro-testers is practically non-existent.

Yet I would be sympathetic if the pro-testers directed their rage not against tuition fees but against the universities and colleges that levy them; these institutions are largely wasting the protesters' time, their formative years, and even the relatively meagre tuition fees they collect. After half a lifetime spent teaching in Canadian universities, my own rueful conclusion is that however low tuition fees are set, they are exorbitant for what's on offer.

Canadian universities are so lacking in academic standards and institutional integrity that their degrees are practically worthless. The average liberal arts student pursuing a degree, say, in sociology or gender studies can perhaps be excused for not knowing better; the universities should not escape censure so easily. The protesting students, for the most part, are pathetic; the university system that spawned them is culpable.

I wonder if some of the protesting students dimly sense this themselves; anyone who misled them into believing that our current educational shambles will equip them to thrive in the modern world is their real enemy, not Jean Charest. In Canada, we spend lavishly on universities that have forgotten their raison d'être. They teach useless subjects, often badly. They are run by careerists not scholars. They practise grade inflation on a Weimar Republic scale. They are hothouses of political correctness and conformist thinking. They lack financial accountability.

If the students were protesting this, their cause would be worthy. If they resolved to change their university, they might be surprised to discover allies in unlikely places, including among faculty (present and past) heartsick at what Canadian universities have become.

Ian Hunter is professor emeritus in the faculty of law at the University of Western Ontario. His latest book is That Time of Year.
 

Gentle

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Yet another one who flunked history !

It's way past time to protest against mismanagement... this is just a begining protesting against leadership !

How can you expect a small portion of the population working to pay for a larger one who isn't working ?
While all along you have an immensely rich country with so much resources coming out of our a$$ while we continue to be in debt and even paying more for gas.

It's not even capitalism that is attacked, it's not even the tarsands per se.

It's the way this retarded way of gov. with all it's corruption is brainwashing people into thinking that we are paying so much tax because it cost a lot to get decent healthcare and education for a mere 30millions.

We are one of the wealthiest country with one of the biggest territory to harvest from and yet we are in total debt.

How do you explain that Norway is now sitting on one of the biggest reserve of cash ?
By selling fish ?

And yet they beat us year after year on social justice.

You guys are really brainwashed !

You don't even get off your lazy behind when the gov. laughed at you and lie to your face.

It's the students once again just like when it started over and over again in all these countries and in the past that are better informed and willing to go in jail to save your democracy. Just like when they sent the youngs boys 18-19-20y. old at war to defend democracies.

While old grumpies were just sitting there, watching them getting killed to save their 'freedom'.

Look at what happened with the 'Occupy movement'. People were protesting on how wall street screwed so many and got away with it.
Then, slowly the gov. made people think it was just a bunch of frustrated ones. And it almost completely died.

Why ? because people don't want to take their responsabilities.
They think by taking 10min. every 4 years to go vote is enough. After all they work hard at paying taxes.
So they go fill their tank up. Complain about how gas is so expensive while living in an oil rich country and how we get screwed by the gov.

And yet, when someone is taking a stand... they just sit there and complain more on how much it will cost them to pay for this.
While never thinking that the gov. was responsible once for letting this get out of hands.

This is the country we live in now.

Fat, lazy, grumpy and cowards.
The best kind of people to control and brainwash.

Bravo !
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Jan 20, 2007
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It's silly to believe that everybody can or should go to the university. In the academic domain if you want to reach the top you have to be better than the other. There's no utopian or silly egalitarian principle here. The survival of the wisest.....
Reading this, one would think that you believe that having the money to attend university should be based on economic considerations rather than intellectual capability.

Let the universities be free, okay, but in return select the ones with the best aptitudes.
If you believe that universities should be free, then you support the primary objective of the strikers, no?
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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I wonder how many teachers and professors would be supporting the students if they had to take a huge pay cut and have their salary indexed to tuitions? As long as tuitions remain frozen, so do their salaries.

This is just another symptom of the welfare province that Quebec has become. Students would love to get their education for free but once they graduate they will be in a rush to leave Quebec to work elsewhere as they will not want to pay the taxes here even if they are able to find a job. Then again, it seems that about 7 out of 10 students I've heard interviewed are taking political science as their major so they'll probably be working slinging burgers for the forseeable future after graduation.
 

protagoras

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No, not at all. The strikers want free university for everybody...from the dumbest to the wisest students.

Free universities (as they exist in certain countries) are only acessible for the best candidates after a strict examination. Only the one with the best notes can attend a free university (such as is the cas in Brazil for example) [There is also racial quotas to give acces to racial minorities).

But at the end - if we examine the employment rate of graduate students in free university - eveything boils down to the resurgence of economic inequalities: (in France, for example, where the university is almost free, the ones that have the jobs are those coming from rich family because they have a greater general culture and better social habilities).
 

TheDon

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At this point the students really have no leverage as their winter semester looks to be a lost and they will not be getting their tuition fee refunded for a lost semster. The only leverage students have is with their distrubtions downtown with their nightly marches, metro distrubtions, destroying of property, and now lighting bonfires. The students are better off taking their protest to the Quebec Parliment in Quebec City and their voices will be better heard when the fall semester starts by not registering and the universities feel the pinch when theres no tuition money comming in from the students. Eventually we the tax payers will be paying for all these protest as Montreal police officers are logging a tone of overtime hours whether they are keeping the peace or just on standby when things get out of hand. If you are serious about school and getting your degree the tuition hikes should not bother you. But if you are not serious about school and jump around from course to course and program to program then of course you want a free education.
 

Gentle

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Again, a bunch of ignorants who still think this is still about tuition fees.

Just wait and see !

Anarchy on a mass level only happens when the exec. failed to prove they are governing within a frame of freedom, peace and justice.
But when gov. laughed in the face of its youngest generation, the result is simply of their own creation !

Keep paying more taxes for your car even if you live in a oil-rich country.
Keep paying for corruption in all levels of governing bodies.
Keep paying for all these roads and bloated construction contracts.
Keep paying for a health care system crumbling down.
And most of all keep paying for all the debts these gov. made on your back.

Surely the wisest argument is to keep being divided by blaming students or welfare or the sick, the childrens who aren't working and paying taxes as you do.
Keep believing the ones who are making billions on your back like the banks, the oil industry that fix the price of gas with the precision of an atomic clock.

Socialism only happens when the gov. body went too far !
Either it is from Imperialism, fachism or colonialism.

Enough is enough !
Charest has to go !

He created so much insecurity and instability by stalling a public inquiry on corruption that he has to go.
He was the only one with the liberals who didn't want this inquiry.

67% of Quebec didn't want him to lead.
Now, it's 84% who wants him to resign.

No matter what he does, now !
He will go down in history has the one who stirred too much sh!t in Quebec !

Don't you love that ? :D
 

Halloween Mike

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I have been protesting very hard against the "red" as a bright GREEN since nearly the beginning of this conflict. From where it still was about the fees to now that its about chaos, anarchism and just plainly disturbing quebec peace in a hope to bring down the Charest Governement.... It reached a status now that there is no good reason to let it continue what so ever. Quebec was a few months ago one of the best place to live in the world, and now its turning into an anarchist playground. I was a full supporter of every arabian country that rebelled against there governement, for obvious reason. But here in quebec, there reason are so insignificant... its pretty much complaining because your dad gave you 50 bucks to go out when you wanted a 100....

Would that would be for me, it would be the army in the streets right now, the immediate arrest of the leaders for 4-6 months of prison, and no "candy sentence" to the people that get arrest in the streets. Minimum a month in jail...

I was thinking of going to montreal to do what we all do here, but honestly i don't want to be caugh in the crossfire of these anarchist reds and the police. I fully support the police and the anti riot squads, but i know if i happen to be at the wrong time at the wrong place, some shit could happen to me.
 
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