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Prostitution debate videos

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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That first video was really interesting. That was a great discussion. Civilians I meet think that 85% of the prostitutes have been "taken" and purposely hooked on drugs so they have to work the street. I wonder if that even exists in .1% of the cases? I liked the handicapped guy that chimed in. He just wanted some human contact. How else is he supposed to get it?

Whatever happened to the Lord's Bill?
 

gugu

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Feb 11, 2009
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The bill was past against the advice of the justice department. It is this law that Laura Lee was engaged to fight, a fight you can be assured will continue. High court decisions in the Commonwealth countries sometime tell what will happen in others.

True what you say about the handicapped guy. Each of his sentence hits solidly.
 

MattMiller

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Aug 30, 2012
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Opponents of the legalization of sex work usually try to advance their cause under the shield of a barrage of fake statistics (average entry into sex trade; level of violence; how many sex workers have a pimp; etc.).
See:
Ronald Weitzer: Sex trafficking and the sex industry: the need for evidence-based theory and legislation. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Vol.101, Issue 4, 2011
https://scholarlycommons.law.northw...ferer=&httpsredir=1&article=7413&context=jclc

This should not be surprising. The political economist Joseph Schumpeter wrote in his book Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (1942) that "the first thing man will do for his ideal or interest is to lie". (p.264)

But sometimes the real reason for their opposition to sex work is stated. Quote from the opposing view (link given by Patron):
"it [prostitution] is exceedingly violent, but that it also conveys a dark message about how too many men see women. Even in a non-violent exchange, paying another person to have sex with you should not be acceptable. Sex should be mutually desired by, and enjoyable to, both parties. An ethical, empathetic person wouldn’t want to have sex with someone who didn’t want to be there — who felt repulsed or dehumanized by the experience." [color added to the font by this poster]​

A different, and in my opinion realistic, view point:
Germaine Greer [one of the major voices of the second-wave feminist movement; scholar of English literature] on sex work and its relation to feminism, on the Australian show Q & A:
"Most of us have to sell ourselves in some way or another. In some ways selling sex is to sell less of yourself than when you become a company person, when you become identified with your employer, when your employer dictates your very mental processes. We are all involved in selling things that shouldn't be sold at all. It's called capitalism; it's the system, and Eve was the first person to work in it." (4:07)
https://youtu.be/ILN9x_IWKAU?t=4m5s

An older article that is still very much worth reading:
Martha C. Nussbaum: Whether from reason or prejudice: Taking money for bodily services. Journal of Legal Studies, 1998, Vol.27, 693-724
https://humanities-web.s3.us-east-2.../2018-10/Whether From Reason or Prejudice.pdf
Nussbaum is the Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago, appointed in the Department of Philosophy and the Law School.
https://philosophy.uchicago.edu/faculty/nussbaum
 

curly

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Sep 8, 2003
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All this takes the point of view that ALL women do NOT want to do sex work. Well in my admitedly limited sample of three woman i knew very well as friends or family who worked in sex trade, at least two of them absolutely wanted to do it and one didn't mind. And the one who didn't mind told me "for the same pay, I would rather be pampered and fondled, even by people whom I don't like, than work at McDonald serving bitchy clients and processing the garbage bags".

I guess each work hard it's load of stinky and disgusting tasks, one has the right to choose those they hate least...

That is not to say human trafficking and violence does not exist in sex work. And we should absolutely target it. Domestic violence also exist, and we're not making marriage illegal for it...
 

2fast2slow

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Jan 12, 2005
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Domestic violence also exist, and we're not making marriage illegal for it...

i like that analogy.

in the last 15 years of this hobby, i am positive i did not meet ONE trafficed or pimped sex worker.
 

sambuca

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Sep 9, 2015
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As can be expected, Spanish feminists who are also abolitionists wrap the issue in sex trafficking and violence.

Per the article cited below, “Prostitution is the best school on inequality, a brutal education where men learn to see women as inferiors whose bodies they can use, and women learn to see theirs as a product. That’s why [we say]: abolition or barbary.”

https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-11...ge-spanish-feminists-rally-eliminate-violence

The politics and economics of prostitution is complicated enough. Then you add modern feminism and you have a coalition of ideas that don't always mix well.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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And Patron, they won't interview the Indies because they already have the story written. Now the job of the activist is to go out and find the girls that will tell them what she or he wants to hear and ignore everyone else.
 

gugu

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Feb 11, 2009
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Today, the arguments were made before the Conseil constitutionnel in France, in favour and against the penalization of clients of prostitution. The main constitutionnal argument was about the freedom to do business. The decision will be published February the first. It will be a major piece of jurisprudence that will have an impact Europe wise. Surprise! I agree with one comment by the lawyer representing a prohibitionnist organization. Among the seven or eight lawyers representing the sex workers, he said, some centered their argument on the vulnerability of sex workers while others said sex workers were just doing a job that is still legal. I found the arguments by both sides very weak. The video of the arguments is in french only of course.

Présentation ce matin des arguments des avocats dans une cause importante pour l'avenir des travailleuses du sexe en France: la pénalisation des clients est contestée devant le Conseil constitutionnel (équivalent de la cour suprême) sur la base de la liberté d'entreprendre. La décision de la cour sera connue le 1er février. Ce sera un morceau de jurisprudence important pour toute l'Europe. J'ai trouvé les arguments des deux côtés assez faible, surtout très incohérents du côté des tds qui ont joué en même temps la carte de la victimisation et celle du refus de l'infantilisation.

Pour voir la video, il faut chercher l'affaire 2018-761 QPC sur la page des affaires en instance du site du Conseil. SI quelqu'un est capable de trouver le lien direct de la video, n'hésitez pas à le reproduire ici.

https://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/media/20424[/QUOTE]
 

Valcazar

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gugu

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Addendum to prevous video, the decision was made public yesterday: they lost. The decision is short. The "abolitionnistes" won each and every arguments. It's kind of final. No European court will or even can invalidate. It's a matter for each jurisdiction. Ruling bellow in french only. Google translate will do the job if needed.

La décision du conseil constitutionnel, voir vidéo précédente, a été rendue publique ce matin. La loi française a été validée. Les juges ont donné raison aux abolitionnistes de haut en bas et de gauche à droite. Je ne vois pas le tribunal européen des droits de l'homme invalider ce jugement C'est final.

https://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/decision/2019/2018761QPC.htm
 

2fast2slow

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Jan 12, 2005
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today on 985 with bernard drainville

https://www.985fm.ca/extraits-audio...xe-denoncent-le-programme-des-corps-policiers

he interniewed Sandra Wesley from Stella about the enew guidelines given to hotel workers and taxi drivers to help detect trafficed young women. Sandra would not have it. She denounced this practice for what it is, a total sham. I was in my car and listening to her put Drainville in his place and thought to myself ''you go girl!''
 
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