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Thread: Disagreeing Factions

  1. #1
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    Disagreeing Factions

    I am placing this post in the general forum, as it seems to be a recurring theme in the review forum (definitely NOT the place for it).

    I will never understand the mentality that because a lady decides to charge a specific price, that many men continue to complain about it. If you think itís not worth it, donít pay. There are many things that I will not pay for, because they are not worth it TO ME--including an expensive car or really expensive wine (the latter being just because I donít really like wine).

    Wow! People having different views of the world! How novel! This whole process/hobby is all subjective. What is worth it to one person is not worth it to another. Thatís the way it is. Accept it.

    But there are some people who disagree so vehemently that they feel it necessary to refer to others as ďlosersĒ for wanting to spend the extra money on themselves (for something that THEY FEEL is worth it). Or there are some gentlemen who determine that they are ďmore interestingĒ than the women they meet because they have more money than the ladies, giving them the air of importance and the ability to judge whomever they want.

    Suddenly, a war breaks out between both factions who agree and disagree. Well, these forums are designed primarily to help people and not compare sizes, which is all these wars seem to be.

    I guess the line someone used is, ďCanít we all just get along?Ē

    All it comes down to is that there are people who want to pay the extra money and people who donít. Why not leave it at that? It does not mean that one or the other is right. It simply means that people use their money for different reasons.

    If I determine that spending time with a woman talking is worth it, followed by sex, then so be it. You know? Maybe the game of flirtation and watching a woman makes having sex that much better for me. Or maybe I just want to hop in the sack sometimes. Neither way is better, but a personal taste or mood.

    Maybe I wonít hit it off with a lady either. Thatís a risk.

    Or maybe someone really does find the escort heís with to be a great person, no matter if itís all fantasy or not. This does not turn him into a loser. It just means that is his fantasy. Leave it at that.

    So, to those who donít think itís worth it? Itís not worth it to you, and there are plenty other women to help you along in the hobby. You may not be able to meet the lady whose web page or pictures you like, because you donít like her prices, so you move on.

    For those who do think itís worth it? Itís your money. Spend it how you will.

  2. #2
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    Thanks, Bob.

    I should also clarify that I have only paid for an HDH once, and it was a great time, but I cannot say it is worth it each time.

    I have met so many through the old Heartbreakers and through BetterHalf that I have so much more fun with.

    I think you're correct that there has been some belittling from the HDH supporters, and I should have added that to the thread. I am not supporting that either. They are just as wrong as the ones who complain about the prices.

    I am just hoping, in vain I am sure, that both sides can simply understand that each has their preferences, goals, etc., and that we can maintain the path that these boards are intended for: in support of each other finding the right escorts for their criteria.

  3. #3
    Actually my point of view has nothing to do with who can, who won't, how long, dinner, no dinner etc...

    My gripe is the fact that these ladies are banding together and dictating what they are willing to charge and many people seem very satisfied with this and are going in blindly.

    Don't get me wrong I am not cheap. Personally I like 3 hour visits so that I can establish some sort of bonding before the physical act begins.

    Back to my point, The HDH's of this city (some are and many charge as if they are, buyer beware!) WILL increase their prices as long as there are enough people willing to pay. This is pure economics with some greed and vanity thrown into it.

    Here is a true story to establish my point.

    Back in the early 70's a company came out with a revolutionary new pen. They priced it at around 49 cents. No one bought it because they thought it was cheap. The company finally took it off the market. One year later they put this exact pen back on the market for $1.19 and everybody loved it.

    Now back to our dear HDH's. We are starting to say that our sp's at $140 are not good anymore and that at $250 they are amazing. What everybody is missing is that these are all the same girls or if you rather "pens".

    What the sp's are actually doing is charging more and everybody thinks they are automatically better. In a few years these $250 girls will be the low end and the good will be $500. Many are already trying to charge this price and I've seen a few at $700.

    Then the arguments start. People are paying and finding out that at $250 you are not necessarily getting anything better. Yes you can get a good sp at 100 and yes you can get a bad one at $250. Many are content with asservissante, others with FKS. Does it really matter?

    Now people are starting to actually believe that a HDH is a GFE with appalling service like CBJ'S, no DATY, no DFK. Some actually say they are satisfied with this level of service. She may be sweet and intelligent but she ain't no GFE in my book.

    In the end it's your money, but don't forget, if all of you push the price up, it's now my money also!

    By the way for those who don't know, the pen in question was the BIC Ball Point pen.

  4. #4
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    Re: Disagreeing Factions

    Originally posted by fizzylove
    I am placing this post in the general forum, as it seems to be a recurring theme in the review forum (definitely NOT the place for it).

    I will never understand the mentality that because a lady decides to charge a specific price, that many men continue to complain about it. If you think itís not worth it, donít pay. There are many things that I will not pay for, because they are not worth it TO ME--including an expensive car or really expensive wine (the latter being just because I donít really like wine).

    Wow! People having different views of the world! How novel! This whole process/hobby is all subjective. What is worth it to one person is not worth it to another. Thatís the way it is. Accept it.

    But there are some people who disagree so vehemently that they feel it necessary to refer to others as ďlosersĒ for wanting to spend the extra money on themselves (for something that THEY FEEL is worth it). Or there are some gentlemen who determine that they are ďmore interestingĒ than the women they meet because they have more money than the ladies, giving them the air of importance and the ability to judge whomever they want.

    Suddenly, a war breaks out between both factions who agree and disagree. Well, these forums are designed primarily to help people and not compare sizes, which is all these wars seem to be.

    I guess the line someone used is, ďCanít we all just get along?Ē

    All it comes down to is that there are people who want to pay the extra money and people who donít. Why not leave it at that? It does not mean that one or the other is right. It simply means that people use their money for different reasons.

    If I determine that spending time with a woman talking is worth it, followed by sex, then so be it. You know? Maybe the game of flirtation and watching a woman makes having sex that much better for me. Or maybe I just want to hop in the sack sometimes. Neither way is better, but a personal taste or mood.

    Maybe I wonít hit it off with a lady either. Thatís a risk.

    Or maybe someone really does find the escort heís with to be a great person, no matter if itís all fantasy or not. This does not turn him into a loser. It just means that is his fantasy. Leave it at that.

    So, to those who donít think itís worth it? Itís not worth it to you, and there are plenty other women to help you along in the hobby. You may not be able to meet the lady whose web page or pictures you like, because you donít like her prices, so you move on.

    For those who do think itís worth it? Itís your money. Spend it how you will.

    Kudos to your statement on its face. I see you backslid somewhat below but hey, can't epxect it all in one fell swoop...LOL.

    EBS
    mi nombre en inglťs es "Good Sam"

  5. #5
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    Oliver,

    Worth is a dynamic thing. It has nothing to do with what you think, but what others who choose to afford these services think is the womans worth. She is worth that much because somebody will pay it, just as somebody will pay 200K for your house in one location and will not pay more than 100k for the same house somewhere else.

    I think it would be very worthwhile to learn that worth and value is a highly personal perception.

    EBS
    mi nombre en inglťs es "Good Sam"

  6. #6
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    Thanks, EBS. Yes, I did slightly slide down in the second statement, primarily because there are gulity parties on both sides of this issue.

    The people who don't want to or can't afford to pay always complain. And the people who can afford and want to pay the HDH prices often make "belittling" comments to the complainers.

    What it comes down to is that one knows what one can spend. If you can't afford something, stop complaining about it. Don't pay for it.

    If you can afford it, go for it.

    I mentioned having only paid once for an HDH, but I will state that I am not opposed to the prices (not that anyone's pointing). I just CHOOSE to pay what I want to pay while I am there.

    I stand by the first statement for sure, but I wanted to acknowledge that there are still those on both sides that need to be more constructive in their posts.

  7. #7
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    Right you are there are those who need to be more constructive in their posts. And the only ones who are complaining are those who think the prices are too high. There are no belittling statements to those who cannot afford that are made without the pretext of a lot of complaint on their part. You need to consider that. Nobody is on this board is here to belittle anyone who can't or won't afford a lady's asking price. I'll be damned if I let any one belittle me because I choose to afford that price.

    EBS
    Last edited by E B Samaritano; 08-05-2003 at 09:31 PM.
    mi nombre en inglťs es "Good Sam"

  8. #8
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    Personally, I think the value of HDH are set by the people willing pay the big dollars. Vanity and everything else aside, a girl is only worth $700 if you pay her. If nobody pays her, then she isn't worth it.

    Economics of supply / demand / marketplace / extremism / niche marketing says there there will probably be just enough people to make it all work out. The girls of places of these HDH "groups" or agencies that move their prices too high will find themselves slowly frozen out of the market place as others move in, willing to do "the job" at a lower rate. The question will be are their enough people willing to shell out that much money to get what they desire - short term I think yes, longer term I think it isn't a good business move.

    Montreal has never been a HD market, the base rates established and set by what appears in newspapers and tabloids in town, and the number of agencues (and girls) willing to go for $120-$150.

    The same can be said in the MP marketplace. There are great places with lower costs, and there are a few places (like Alicia) that end up costing you in the hundreds. This is only supported by either good value for money, or a constant influx of new clients.

    FKS in the end fails this concept because they charge more and have made it harder to keep the influx of new people going. I suspect in the long run they will have less and less clients and less of a pool to get new clients from, unless the girls are operating outside of the system. If they operate outside of the system, I suspect their rates will slip and things will return to normal.

    The dynamics of such a situation are not easy, but the end results are fairly predictable.

    MATt
    Your mileage may vary... mine did!

  9. #9
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    Well said, Bob!

    I only hope that the individuals with the attitudes will find your message in this. If theyíre as adept as they proclaim, they will.

    But I feel confident you shall be well prepared for, and somewhat expecting, their usual insignificant ranting.

  10. #10

    Train

    You are right that the price seems to have stabilized for now at $450 for 2 hours.

    Maybe it's just my bad luck, because I haven't really had that many good ďnew experiencesĒ in the last 2 to 3 years and the few good new ones that I did find, did not last long or have gone to greener pastures. Therefore I just basically kept to my regulars and was happy, but many now have retired. To be honest I also got tired of some of them and the raison díÍtre of this hobby is the ability of regularly meeting someone different otherwise; ďHell, get a wife and settle downĒ and it ends up costing about the same!

    So for the past year Iíve tried new agencies or same agencies, different girls and basically have been very disappointed. I even did a last ditch effort last December and called at least 12 different ladies and none (and I really mean none) were anywhere close to being a 5-5-5 (according to Robinís rating system). I wonít even try EBSís system as Iím not a rocket scientist.

    I've been on and off this hobby for a very long time. Hell my first sp was before the escort business (at least publicly) existed in Montreal. They were then called strippers that went and did ďprivate dancesĒ at your home/hotel. When I really got back into it in the early nineties I could blindly call up just about any agency at the $130 price range and get a GFE, or very close to it, experience. Today forget it, you have to do your research or you get burned.

    Maybe the well is drying up, I don't know what else to think? It canít be that there are only 20-30 very good SPís left in Montreal!

    Lord, tell me Iím wrong!

    The only ones that look interesting ARE the HDHís that I never needed to go to in the past. Maybe Iím just burned out and need a good break.

    Hope this makes my point of view clearer.

  11. #11
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    I completely understand and agree with almost everything said. I have been out of the game since 2000 and am now just reviving my activities. When I first started out, Heartbreakers was going strong in the early half of the 90s. Their demise, along with a few other key agencies, has left a hole in the Montreal scene, and I did not realize it until my trip to Montreal just this June.

    I have to say I was spoiled at the beginning too, having had a success rate of probably 90% with the ladies (looks wise, personality wise and all around service too). I did meet Nikki back then, who I guess is Sweet Nikki now, and she was my first. From what I gather, she has certainly raised her rates now, and no longer offers kissing (which is a must for me). Too bad too, as I really like her a lot. I just have certain criteria nowadays, that I may have let slide in my twenties.

    I will admit that I have never been a great researcher for the hobby (I guess not making me a hobbyist), and have usually steered clear of the boards, trying out new women each trip. I am not sure that it is necessarily a thing of the past for me to try our new ladies, but I did only have a 50% success rate on my June trip, and the two bad experiences were definitely with the LDH I met. The HDH, on the other hand, one of them being the incredible Florence Porti, and the other Rebeka (both of FKS) were incredible.

    I do not give intimate details on either, but letís just say, I was an extremely happy gent after the two of them. Luckily, I saved them for the latter half of my trip.

    I havenít ANY problems telling you why you should avoid Jodie of All-Star and Chanel of Classic Montreal. Both resembled their pics, but in each case, the session was either cut short, or they refused kissing or anything close to intimacy. One of them even seemed upset that I did not tip her for the mediocre service.

    I still find that in the LDH range, there are probably a few agencies that still have more liberal ladies at their disposal. You will find slightly more mature ladies at BetterHalf, or more liberal services with agencies as reputable (or that have been around for a time). BUT, I think most of the ladies know their worth is a lot more than $100 USD an hour nowóespecially if theyíre as hot as those like Florence or Rebeka are.

    I canít make a long story short now, but the bottom line is: Sure, I would love to see the Montreal scene of the 90s again, with the prices offered then. But I can also accept the ďnew trendĒ of $450 for 2 hrs as a means for me to, hopefully, and I stress ďhopefully,Ē judge who will provide the better experience.

    If anyone does come across HDH that are not HDH, I am sure we will hear. Right guys?

  12. #12
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    Train, it isn't the HDH that ruin it for us - in the end, it is the people willing to pay the HD for the action that make it hard. With enough tourists and enough locals willing to pay the freight, they are able to set a standard rate structure that other aspire to.

    Every girl who has working the business more than a short time is aware of where they are on the price scale of life. Many of them aspire to get the higher price, to work less for more money, etc. It is a normal part of life. The higher prices work only because enough people are willing to pay for them.

    When you think things are too expensive in a service industry, you only have to look at other people who are willing to pay the price to find out why it is so high. If nobody paided, the price would drop until someone did.

    I don't complain for the choices you and others make, just pointing out that we all have the parts we play to make the marketplace exist and work. Understanding that your actions have a small but direct effect on the marketplace is an interesting thought!

    MATt
    Your mileage may vary... mine did!

  13. #13
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    ManAboutTown,

    I'm agree with you.

    Another thing, It's not question if I can afford it or not.
    It's like when you go shopping,
    Do you want to pay the same shirt, same quality for the
    double of price? I don't think.
    But if the quality is better, I can understand.

    Because some members are not objective in their
    recommandations.
    It's to have the right informations.
    Sure we can do what we want with our money.

  14. #14
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    Eager, the problem is that most people see two classes, "HDH" and "needle marked LDL"... In reality, there is alot of grey between the two points, and most of us don't fall specifically on either end.

    Want real LDL? You can go the Oliver route, streetwalking in Montreal has it rewards. After that is the $80- $100 newspaper girls. Then the $120-$200 range, then finally the $250 minimum 2 hour girls, which is the leading edge of HDH territory.

    Which brings up maybe the most important part of the whole deal, which is time spent. Streetwalkers are basically "til it squirts"... beyond that is 1 hour SSOG, 1 hour MSOG, and finally when you fall into HDH, you are looking at the 2 hours min, usually MSOG, etc.

    There is ALOT of grey in the scale from one end to the other.

    MATt
    Your mileage may vary... mine did!

  15. #15
    benhur
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    Re: HDH vs. LDL Consumers

    Originally posted by EagerBeaver
    Let's be realistic. The choices we all make are primarily driven by our socioeconomic status. The hobbyists who have the financial wherewithal to do so are going to choose HDH ladies, who are generally a cut above the LDL ladies. The hobbyists of more limited financial means will of necessity select the LDL ladies.
    Eager [/B]
    Not always true Eager....last fall I went on my annual escort binge and during 2 weeks had girls from LFMJ (tried a couple from Asservissante and other agencies but not enough GFE for me) going in and out of my appartment....some of them I spent up to 8 hours with (Camille from LFMJ)...most of them a minimum of 2hrs....how much I spent is not important....but even though I did consider some HDH....I stuck with Jacques.....it was overall cheaper and most of the time amazing.

    In the end it is a very personal decision.....

    Ben

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