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Airlines cancel service to Tel Aviv - justified or not?

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michael99

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Jul 30, 2011
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What do you think?

Air Canada, many European and US airlines have suspended their service to Tel Aviv for the time being.
Bloomberg argues against that
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v...itzer-bloomberg-israel-gaza-conflict.cnn.html

Do you think the airlines are overreacting or are these temporary cancellations justified?

I personally think that these cancellations are not only fully justified but any airline that flies into a "combat" zone where missiles are flying is utterly irresponsible.
And so is Bloomberg with his arguments - I couldn't believe that he had the gall to go on national TV and make statements like that
 
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easyguy

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Apr 29, 2012
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michael99 said:
What do you think?

Air Canada, many European and US airlines have suspended their service to Tel Aviv for the time being.
Bloomberg argues against that
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v...itzer-bloomberg-israel-gaza-conflict.cnn.html

Do you think the airlines are overreacting or are these temporary cancellations justified?

I personally think that these cancellations are not only fully justified but any airline that flies into a "combat" zone where missiles are flying is utterly irresponsible.
And so is Bloomberg with his arguments - I couldn't believe that he had the gall to go on national TV and make statements like that
Click to expand...

Yes missiles are flying as well as birds, meteorites and other planes. But as soon as they are not anti- aircraft missiles the risk is negligible that they will hit aircraft in mid air. Yes you can be hit by missile on the ground, but if you are flying to Israel during this time you should be prepared for this and it is not airline responsibility.
 
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easyguy

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easyguy

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Poolguy said:
You can't get on board a plane with a pencil sharpener, and you expect airlines to fly into a war zone? Get Real.
Click to expand...
This is not the place to get into the long discussion but believe me that flying now to Israel is much safer than to many other places in the world seemingly free from the open military conflict. Israel is probably the only country in the world that has deployed countermeasures at civilian airport and it's aircraft against manpads and other weaponry.
 
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Poolguy

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well I hope those countermeasures are more successful than the ones against those Hamas missiles which keep hitting Israel with great success.
 
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easyguy

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Poolguy said:
well I hope those countermeasures are more successful than the ones against those Hamas missiles which keep hitting Israel with great success.
Click to expand...

Yes, I hope they are as good as Iron Dome that intercepted practically all Iranian and Syrian made rockets fired at Tel Aviv. Trust me, this is not a propaganda, this stuff is as good as can be done at this point. The only shortcoming is the very high cost of the intercept (up to $100,000). Thus direct energy defence (lasers) is next. This will reduce cost of intercept to a few bucks and will make unguided primitive rockets useless.
 
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michael99

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Jul 30, 2011
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easyguy said:
Yes, I hope they are as good as Iron Dome that intercepted practically all Iranian and Syrian made rockets fired at Tel Aviv.
Click to expand...

Oh boy - you are dreaming in techni-colour.
That almost 90% success rate claimed by Israel is BS.
Read this:
http://www.businessweek.com/article...iron-dome-weapons-expert-warns-of-major-flaws
or this:
http://scholarsandrogues.com/2014/07/29/the-contrails-have-it-iron-dome-is-a-dud/

And even if the almost 90% were true and only 10% of the rockets made it - all it takes is one of them.....
 
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easyguy

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michael99 said:
Oh boy - you are dreaming in techni-colour.
That almost 90% success rate claimed by Israel is BS.
Read this:
http://www.businessweek.com/article...iron-dome-weapons-expert-warns-of-major-flaws
or this:
http://scholarsandrogues.com/2014/07/29/the-contrails-have-it-iron-dome-is-a-dud/

And even if the almost 90% were true and only 10% of the rockets made it - all it takes is one of them.....
Click to expand...

No system is perfect but the Iron Dome is a game changer for low tech rockets interception there is no doubt about that and it is the best that is in this field now. Iron Dome only intercepts rockets that are predicted to land in built up areas and let other to go through. Thus claims that its effectiveness is less than 90%. In reality it is close to 90% for the rockets it decided to intercept. The effectiveness of this strategy is evident by the very low casualty figures from more than 2000 rockets lunched. I believe only 3 or 5 people were killed by the direct rocket hit. People are seeing how it works with their own eyes and it provides enormous psychological effect. It is simply marvellous to track the bullet and hit it with other bullet in a few seconds or even fraction of a second. And yes, technology changes our lives, all human history is shaped primary by the technology development just look what you looking at this very moment and typing on. The type of knowledge, invention that went into development of Iron Dome is incredible and will eventually benefit our lives in a way is difficult to predict. At the end all this marvellous stuff like computers, internet, jets etc., etc. was first developed as a military technology.
Anyway there are plenty of forums discussing this in detail and very professionally. Let’s change the topic a bit. In accordance to this forum mission let ask knowledgeable people if demand for escort service increased or decreased in Israel these days. It will be interesting to know in if stress imposed by the war affects this business. Also what people do if the siren sounds at the very moment your are on or under the girl?
 
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Merlot

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Hello people,

easyguy said:
The effectiveness of this strategy is evident by the very low casualty figures from more than 2000 rockets lunched. I believe only 3 or 5 people were killed by the direct rocket hit. People are seeing how it works with their own eyes and it provides enormous psychological effect. It is simply marvellous to track the bullet and hit it with other bullet in a few seconds or even fraction of a second.
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You know easyguy...I get it,...I think we all get it. Technology can be like that guardian angel that removes our fears and endows ALMOST certain immunity, at least of a sort from one angle. Still, I can't help but find it a little bit...ish...that the fact "only 3 or 5 people were killed" gets dismissed so blithely like those people were just numbers in a math problem. Yes, I get that in the grand scheme of things the losses are infinitesimal. Still, not so dismissible if they were your own wife, kid, parents as they were for someone. Yes, we get it. Still, while taking some kind of exultant joy in the math I think you missed the point that missiles are falling and being fired back on the other side where 100s of innocents on the other side are being brutally torn and killed like the 3 or 5 being dismissed like numbers instead of lives in this grand nirvana of technological victory.

The real victory is to stop missiles from flying at all and not having to use Iron Dome, NOT dismissing 3 or 5 and forgetting the 100s. And, by stopping it I don't mean blowing up those firing the rockets, I mean removing the hatred that brings the desire to fire them. Your technological victories offer one side great security, security that probably creates a psychology that will keep the Israelis from feeling like they have to make any deal while the 100s multiply into 1000s and continue to make Iron Dome a necessary fact of life that really symbolizes the tragedy that the real danger will continue.

If I were an Israeli I'd also be thinking how great this defense system is, but never get so smug as to forget the underlying tragedy goes on and on. A life is a life regardless of sides. Despite my support for dealing with terrorists this is a catch 22 situation. Your grand technological victory is breeding more terrorists...not really solving the danger.

BTW - the lesson of history is that one technological panacea eventually gets trumped by another...then on and on. There once was a man who feared his foes and so he created the club and felt secure, then his enemies developed and ax, his enemies developed a spear, his enemies developed a bow, his enemies developed a gun...then artillery...then aircraft...then missiles...then Iron Dome...then................:(.

Cheers guy,

Merlot
 
PSEfreak

PSEfreak

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The way I see it the most of the people who fly there are Jews (citizens or not) & religious pilgrams (who wouldn't mind meeting their god anyway) so does it really matter that some airlines stopped going. Those people will find other airlines to get there anyway, a few rockets are not going to stop them. Personally you couldn't give me enough money to go there at this time.

Basically if you don't NEED to go, why take the risk?

This argument that Israel has been able to minimize the damage from missiles & rockets would not reassure me one bit. The Israeli gouvernment themselves have admitted to thousands of missiles/rockets having been fired already. When I heard Bloomberg on CNN say its safer to fly there than flying into most US cities actually made my choke on my food it was so preposterous to say, he even was able to do it with a straight face no less.
 
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easyguy

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deboner said:
The way I see it the most of the people who fly there are Jews (citizens or not) & religious pilgrams (who wouldn't mind meeting their god anyway) so does it really matter that some airlines stopped going. Those people will find other airlines to get there anyway, a few rockets are not going to stop them. Personally you couldn't give me enough money to go there at this time.

Basically if you don't NEED to go, why take the risk?

This argument that Israel has been able to minimize the damage from missiles & rockets would not reassure me one bit. The Israeli gouvernment themselves have admitted to thousands of missiles/rockets having been fired already. When I heard Bloomberg on CNN say its safer to fly there than flying into most US cities actually made my choke on my food it was so preposterous to say, he even was able to do it with a straight face no less.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you want to go for vacation with some hobbling you can wait for a calmer time there. By the way nobody replied to my question. So if you are engaged with the girl over there and siren sounds (rockets are coming) would you finish or interrupt risking to be left with blue balls?
 
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