More agencies, dramatic competition for girls, inflation on rates and criminality

[MarathonMan]

Things are getting worst than ever. This post might be very thought-provoking, will see.

Over the last 10 years, I ve noticed a very weird trend on the Montreal scene. Once every 2-3 years agencies are popping from left and right with many impacts on the industry:

1) The Indy trend: We have more and more "Indies" in Montreal (alluring allyah, Lilly, pretty much all the famous SPs from the Montreal scene are now indy or affiliated to Indy agencies (I’m still questioning myself about this concept!). Fucking crazy! Some of them are charging NY rates....Just to mention few examples: Vicky Vix (now 500$ for 2h)...

Reasons why they're going on Indy mode? My theories are:
- agency owner's are not really taking care of the business
- just not enough calls (I've heard about girls sitting in cars for 9h and making only one call)
- agencies are making sometimes more than 50% commission
- agency policy (stupid as fee! I’ve been told some agencies are giving them "ticket!! Exactly like LE do! Few agencies are imposing crazy 8-12 hours shift, others are encouraging drug abuse. We all know that drug use and high-quality SPing simply don't mix. Too many physical and mental signs of deterioration, big drop in reliability and availability....)
- "stupid clients" telling them stupid shits like " you're too good to work with an agency, you should be Indy", "I'm in love, let's meet anytime, I'll pay whatever the price",....

I've recently been told the story of one of the 'a bit too successful montreal famous' dealing with crazy shits such as threats, fake calls, harassments and so on.

2) New agencies: Let me ask you one question: How many new agencies do pop-out from nowhere during the last few weeks? Based on what I've noticed, here is a non exhaustive list: prestige escorts,topmontrealescort, montreal lust, sexualgirls,ouraffair,girls4unow,sinfulsandy, douce folie, asian123,.... on top of that we have to add existing agencies such as angelescorts, queens of spades, 2hot2touch, escorts-express, tempted2touch, montrealxxxtase, eleganza, devilish, montrealgirlsonfire, nadya, chloesplayground,....just to name a few. I've lost the count! For real, there's a new agency popping every week. Based on the point 1, there's some Indy who actually decided to pimp their collegues. At the beginning I was like "ok cool, new girls are coming!", yeah right. Still the same girls moving faster than ever from one agency to another based on stupid promises such as; ' come work with us we'll give you 20$ more per hour, we are good at marketing girls..... I'm not going to talk about the 'spin off' agencies, you got to be stupid to run spin off while you just can't run 1 agency the right way. This is a very strange phenomenon, I don’t know why suddenly we have so many new players jumping on the Montreal scene. Especially if we do consider the Montreal market size as a very small one compare to Toronto, Vancouver or N-Y. It seems counter-intuitive. In such a competitive market, you would expect there to be fewer agencies, as over-supply will just boost competition, restrict prices and therefore profits even more. Who are these marketing geniuses?

I think everyone think it is easy money to run escort agencies and everyone try to make a good at it. Girls who can't even deal with their own bookings think they can run an agency. It is all pure greed.

3) Gang infiltration: I've been told recently that Gang members are trying to take and reign over the industry (it’s probably going to be worst because of LE operations on organized crime). Many young SPs are controlled (exploited) by pimps (yes it does happen...). Sad but true. There's a rumour saying Gang members are also trying to sell girls to agencies. A year ago here in MTL it's been publicly said that MTLGeisha was under the control of BIKERS, we all know how the story has ended...LE got them and closed them. If you're checking websites such as annonce123, jaysxlist there's a lot of supposed to be indy girls announced, I ve been told that most of them are under the influence of gang members.That's may be the reason why LE has been very active the last several months.

4) Pricing policy: The Montreal SP market has been taken over by pure greed and has priced itself out of the market for some of the guy I know they could barely afford $160. At $200 and over there's no chance they could afford paying that. I do understand their situation but at some point it's not about how much we are making per year. Some of us (I should say just a few of us) are making really good money and could probably afford Indy rates without a problem. I can't complain, life has been good to me but I've never forgot where I came from and I still have respect for the money and I know what worths what. Couple of my friends are making 18$/h through payroll, after taxes they have in their pockets something like 12$ net....Keep this in mind. To me the hour rate should be 160 to a maximum of 180$ (the girl is making from 80$ to 120$/h net!) and tip should be given based on the girl performances and not by default as it is now (200, 220$ per hour).

In the past years, I have noticed the significant deterioration of the MTL scene for hobbyists and there is no sign the situation will improve anytime soon which I really regret. I just don't think the market can support that many agencies and most of them will not make it. It will be interesting to see how this changes the Montreal scene in the long run.

What do you think????

 

[EagerBeaver]

The Montreal SP market has been taken over by pure greed and has priced itself out of the market for some of the guy I know they could barely afford $160. At $200 and over there's no chance they could afford paying that. What do you think????

They charge what they can get, this is basic Economics 101. An SP may work less at $200, if so that is her choice. Other SPs who charge $200 work as much as those that charge $160, if they are popular and provide good service. It has nothing to do with greed, it is called supply and demand forces of the market. They are the forces that control pricing. It is the same thing in any business, and the economic model does not change because one guy's dick is hard and he does not have enough money to pay the market rate or something above that rate.

 

[zastava]

>>> Note by Mod 11: This is a Tony post. Please ignore. <<<

They are all a bunch of two dolla hoes. I hope them and their fucken laval nigga pimps starve to death.

 

[Merlot]

Hello all,

They charge what they can get, this is basic Economics 101. An SP may work less at $200, if so that is her choice. Other SPs who charge $200 work as much as those that charge $160, if they are popular and provide good service. It has nothing to do with greed, it is called supply and demand forces of the market. They are the forces that control pricing. It is the same thing in any business, and the economic model does not change because some guy's dick is hard and he does not have enough money to pay the market rate or something above that rate.

Generally speaking, if the mechanics of supply and demand controlled business I would have no complaints. Unfortunately, the principle of supply and demand is often subverted. There are many ways to alter the proper course of supply and demand, one common method being speculation to pump up prices artificially. I don't know if or how this might be happening with escorts at this time, but to throw out supply and demand principles as a kind of panacea explanation for higher rates naively denies that price manipulation for greedy or seedy intentions that distort supply and demand does exist. One method known in the past is to inflate the value of less popular ladies by holding back appointments from those in highest demand to push appointments with those in less demand as some ladies have told me and my friends. Or is cheating the ladies of appointments to push others a proper strategy of supply and demand?

1) The Indy trend: We have more and more "Indies" in Montreal (alluring allyah, Lilly, pretty much all the famous SPs from the Montreal scene are now indy or affiliated to Indy agencies (I’m still questioning myself about this concept!). Fucking crazy! Some of them are charging NY rates....Just to mention few examples: Vicky Vix (now 500$ for 2h)...

Reasons why they're going on Indy mode? My theories are:
- agency owner's are not really taking care of the business
- just not enough calls (I've heard about girls sitting in cars for 9h and making only one call)
- agencies are making sometimes more than 50% commission
- agency policy (stupid as fee! I’ve been told some agencies are giving them "ticket!! Exactly like LE do! Few agencies are imposing crazy 8-12 hours shift, others are encouraging drug abuse. We all know that drug use and high-quality SPing simply don't mix. Too many physical and mental signs of deterioration, big drop in reliability and availability....)
- "stupid clients" telling them stupid shits like " you're too good to work with an agency, you should be Indy", "I'm in love, let's meet anytime, I'll pay whatever the price",....

However, price manipulation strategies aside, over a long time if Vicky Vix or others are able to successfully ask for $500/2 hours it's because clients are willing to pay it. What's wrong with that? One of my best friends in Montreal met her and said she was worth every cent, even though the situation at the time made him very cost conscious. Any Independent escorts who can maintain such a price over time aren't the cause of higher rates, the clients paying it are. If too many clients say "NO" the price goes down or she starves. How can you blame the ladies for cashing in what clients are willing to pay over and over based on their meeting experiences?

MarathonMan, you are citing complaints about ladies going Independent and higher rates over all then justifying both. You say agencies are abusive in the extreme and yet don't seem to understand to alleged trend toward Independence. You say how clients are foolishly frivolous with their feelings and money yet don't seem to understand why rates are higher...according to you. Do you really have grievances here, or are you using verbal irony to support the reverse of your seeming complaints.

MM, you should keep in mind that seeing an escort is not a basic human right, it's a luxury. If you can't buy into the game, don't play it. There are unfortunately a number of clients who, for their economic heath, shouldn't be seeing us.

Truly!

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I think you're a bit early. The quarterly "the hobby ain't what it used to be" thread isn't due for another three weeks.

 

[EagerBeaver]

. One method known in the past is to inflate the value of less popular ladies by holding back appointments from those in highest demand to push appointments with those in less demand as some ladies have told me and my friends. Or is cheating the ladies of appointments to push others a proper strategy of supply and demand?

This has nothing to do with anything that I posted. Supply and demand analysis assumes a rational consumer, not a rational supplier. If I call up an agency and request a particular lady and somebody tries to push another lady on me, my answer is a resounding no. Basic economic theory of supply and demand assumes a consumer behave rationally and intelligently, and if he does then presumably this scenario does not come into play. If we start assuming otherwise we cannot develop economic theories that would be generally applicable.

Please note there is no focus on the rationality of market suppliers in supply/demand theory. The focus is on market consumers in supply and demand theory. I refer you to the assorted works of J.K. Galbraith.

 

[DM.Goya]

MarathonMan: congratulations! this is a bright topic ...
My two cents:
In general, the maturity of an escort strongly affect her behavior, success, and finally happyness.
In particular:
-I am always surprised to see girls "protected" by pimps here in Montreal ... this should not exist, but I personally met a young escort that admitted she has a pimp that take most of her money ... not be surprised that she was advertised from her agency christmas and new year nights ... This struggl em, how is possible in Canada?
-Agency take a % (30 to 50) of the money we give to girl ... actually half of the crest is for the call and half for the driver. I never understood why of we take X hours we generally pay X time the money; the call was just one and the driver made the same route ... but everyone pay and no one argument ... to me this is unbelievable, after the first hour fully paid, we should only pay the percebtage to the girl ...
-everyone want to make money on the ass of the girls, this is the truth !
-recently I started to meet some indys, established ones, where I am sure no pimps are there; I know that the money is for the girl only;
-money is very attractive for several girls, but money fast enarned is fast spend, this is also a truth;
-there are girls that really like sex, and this job is done for that girls; they are a minority; the other only do for money;

I also like your example, most of the people work and earn 10 to 20 $ per hour worked ... when a girl tell me I do this job because I need money to pay my school, I cannot do not reply: are you conscious that when you will have your diploma you will not be able to stop, mainly because you will need to work 5 to 10 times more for the same amount you earn today by selling your ass? one girl told me "I work 20 hours a month per 2000$" ... most of the people in Canada need to work 140 hours for such amount.

Recently I meet a very surpriseingly girl, mature and bright, in Montreal. I called her the "renaissance escort girl". She is the cleaver girl I never met. She said to me that she established her own rule: never work after 10 in the night, never accept more than 2 customers per day. she mentionned that she could not imagine herself to meet customer late in the night ... who calls at 3 am asking a girl? think about that, and you will see. Personally I found this girl so bright ... and equilibred.

In general, there are no rules ... but I would like in 20 years to meet these girls, their pimps and the agency tenurers that today are making this business, and see where and how they will be. sincerely.

 

[Rusty Staub]

4) Pricing policy: To me the hour rate should be 160 to a maximum of 180$ (the girl is making from 80$ to 120$/h net!) and tip should be given based on the girl performances and not by default as it is now (200, 220$ per hour).

I do find it interested that there is a relatively new but yet very popular agency that opened as a $150/hr base, successfully moved up to the $180/hr price point (which like it or not is the norm these days), but is now trying to establish the $220/hr rate for a good portion of their SP's

I also find it interesting that all the "specials" have dried up where some girls might be $20 less than usual on a slow night.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Recently I meet a very surpriseingly girl, mature and bright, in Montreal. I called her the "renaissance escort girl". She is the cleaver girl I never met. She said to me that she established her own rule: never work after 10 in the night, never accept more than 2 customers per day. she mentionned that she could not imagine herself to meet customer late in the night ... who calls at 3 am asking a girl? think about that, and you will see. Personally I found this girl so bright ... and equilibred.

DM Goya,

The things you mention are nothing new. The smartest escorts I have met told me they have tried to work the day or early shifts in order to avoid drunken and drug addicted clients who are more apt to call late at night. This is common sense. Who wants to service a guy who is puking and incoherent at 2 am in the morning, who reeks of Jack Daniels and slurs every other sentence. Some years ago, a regular poster on MERB posted that he was rejected by an SP who appeared at his door. Flat rejected him and he could not figure out why. 3 pages of thread later the guy admitted he was fucking cocked. Most men (and women) are not attractive when they are drunk. Some become scary. The SPs are human beings and they want to be treated well. Many clients become far less respectful when they are drunk and are not in control of themselves, and some ladies just don't want to deal with that.

 

[KylieD]

...seeing an escort is not a basic human right, it's a luxury. If you can't buy into the game, don't play it.
There are unfortunately a number of clients who, for their economic heath, shouldn't be seeing us.

That's ultimately what it all boils down to as far as price debates go. It couldn't have been said any better.

 

[DM.Goya]

Eagerbeaver: I agree, but look at the advertising today only, how many girls are announced up to 4-5 am? why?
we could do loke Dee suggest and boycott... let girl announced up to midnight ...things could change if we want them to change ...
to buy a service legitimate it's pertinence

 

[MarathonMan]

DM.Goya;536832]MarathonMan: congratulations! this is a bright topic ... THANK YOU !
My two cents:
In general, the maturity of an escort strongly affect her behavior, success, and finally happyness.
In particular:
-I am always surprised to see girls "protected" by pimps here in Montreal ... this should not exist, but I personally met a young escort that admitted she has a pimp that take most of her money ... not be surprised that she was advertised from her agency christmas and new year nights ... This struggl em, how is possible in Canada? It's sometime incredible to see how love can push people to do stupid things

-Agency take a % (30 to 50) of the money we give to girl ... actually half of the crest is for the call and half for the driver. I never understood why of we take X hours we generally pay X time the money; the call was just one and the driver made the same route ... but everyone pay and no one argument ... to me this is unbelievable, after the first hour fully paid, we should only pay the percebtage to the girl ...

Interesting, I ve never looked at the situation from that angle....I'm the one hour type of guy.
-everyone want to make money on the ass of the girls, this is the truth !
-recently I started to meet some indys, established ones, where I am sure no pimps are there; I know that the money is for the girl only;
Same here, I actually enjoyed much better experiences in such conditions.

-money is very attractive for several girls, but money fast enarned is fast spend, this is also a truth;
Most of the SPs I ve met over years are all broke, one of them has admitted earned 450 000$ over 3 years and there's nothing left but shoes...she was supposed to escort for only few weeks just to catch up on bills and finance her scholarship after 5 weeks her monthly burn rate was 5000$, another one of them has married a very rich client, the pretty woman exception....but I recently been told that they've divorced recently and she has ended up with nothing...)
.......

 

[MarathonMan]

Our Affair;536808]MM, you should keep in mind that seeing an escort is not a basic human right, it's a luxury. If you can't buy into the game, don't play it.
There are unfortunately a number of clients who, for their economic heath, shouldn't be seeing us.

AHAHHA! Same thinking with drugs, shopping....ask yourself why you're doing this! LOL


That is one of the reason we started our operations.

Reason #1 was to not have to deal with agency owners anymore and make our own rule. Unfortunately, since some of us can't handle the management part of it, we grouped together.

Let me rephrase....you now have your agency, right. What's the difference? different rules but still rules, different sort of owners but still owners...I don't think you're a Non Profit Organization.


Exactly. If it's too high don't pay. The girl will either get out of business or drop her price. As long as she gets clients, that means her price is right for her.

There's only few clients able to afford high rates during dayshifts....There must be a reason why all agencies are opening from 8 to 5 am...

 

[BIG-DADDY]

It hard to believe the nieviety of some of you guys.. I am an escort agency operator who has been in the business for over ten years and plan to be here for at least ten more before leaving for sunnier climes!

1) The escort business is one of the oldest business and no petty boycott by a small segment of the market will have any long term impact
2) The Market is essential driven by supply and demand
3) 99% percent of the Ladies working in this business are doing it for the money. Johns who fool themselves into thinking that the ladies are doing this because they are enjoying it are completely out of touch with reality.
4) There has always been a degree of vice associated with the industry. Here in Montreal the impact of organized crime is very low. Sure there is a high incidence of drug abuse - but most ladies need to take drugs and or alcohol to be able to do a job they would rather not be doing. This is the reality please don't kid yourself - I have the inside knowledge that the average John knows nothing about.
5) the rates in Montreal are about the lowest in North America. Far lower than most world class cities. You would have to go to some real dive locations to find significantly lower rates. You Johns don't seem to realize how lucky you are!
6) The services offered here are better than almost any North American City - I am surprised there has not been more discussion on STD impact of GFE Services - particularly in Montreal
7) Enjoy what we have here in Montreal - Trust me it does not get any better. If the Agency owners had any balls they would be all raising the rates - I think $200-250 is were the average should be.
8) What you Merbites need to realize is that Merb is just a small segment of the market - Many of you seem puffed up with self importance that you dont seem to realize that If you were all to disappear the escort Business would still continue to thrive - My Agency charges $250 an hour we cater to visiting businessmen and discriminating local clients. I am doing very well and would recommend more agencies to follow my lead. Not all, but most of you on this board sound like a bunch of cheap losers.

Big Daddy

 

[Aeolus]

How many new agencies do pop-out from nowhere during the last few weeks?

Are they all really "new"? New name, maybe, but new from the ground up? Me wonders. The management nuclei of some of these new agencies are probably about as new as many of their girls.

Not all, but most of you on this board sound like a bunch of cheap losers.

A cheap loser is an intelligent loser. If you're going to be a loser, you might as well be the kind that has at least one redeeming quality: thrift.

While I agree that Montreal rates are nothing to complain about, a recession isn't exactly the best time to raise rates. The escort industry isn't OPEC; it doesn't offer a product that we can't live without or obtain by other means. Raise rates at your own peril.

 

[evillethings]

Cream usually rises!

Just means with the expansion of the # of agencies... we'll also eventually see a contraction ... with talented ladies moving to established agencies when smaller agencies fold.

Then we'll wait another 3-5 yrs for the whole expansion thing to happen again.

Sucks for the agencies, especially the bigger players to have to "fend off" the new shops but for hobbyists, it's a good thing.

 

[MarathonMan]

A cheap loser is an intelligent loser. If you're going to be a loser, you might as well be the kind that has at least one redeeming quality: thrift.

While I agree that Montreal rates are nothing to complain about, a recession isn't exactly the best time to raise rates. The escort industry isn't OPEC; it doesn't offer a product that we can't live without or obtain by other means. Raise rates at your own peril.

100% agree with you