"Office québécois de la langue française" & Ville de Montreal Completely Useless

[Ocoq]

My daughter has mild allergies and it is important that I be able to read the labels on food. Federal legislation dictates that these labels must be in English and French, but in my neighborhood, The Plateau Mount Royal, this is often not the case.

I complained to the city and they said because I was east of Saint-Laurent Boulevard, that the law didn't apply . When I contacted the OLF, they wouldn't help either. I guess some Federal laws don't apply provincially in Quebec

Have any other Montrealers had similar difficulties? And does anyone know why provincial law supersedes federal law in Quebec?

 

[metoo4]

Of course, you are way too important to do some digging on your own, right?

Total time for this search: 5 minutes, including this cut-paste and highlighting the important parts you would have likely missed.

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/labeti/guide/ch2e.shtml

2.4 Bilingual Requirements [B.01.012, B.01.054; 6,CPLR]

All mandatory information on food labels must be shown in both official languages, i.e., French and English, with one exception:

• The identity and principal place of business of the person by or for whom the prepackaged product was manufactured, processed, produced or packaged for resale, may be in either English or French.

In addition, all information on the labels of the following may be in one official language only:

• Shipping containers that are not offered for sale to consumers;
• Local products sold in a local area in which one of the official languages is the mother tongue of less than 10 percent of the residents;
• Official test market products (see 2.15, Test Market Foods); and
• Specialty foods, as defined by the Food and Drug Regulations.

The province of Quebec has additional requirements concerning the use of the French language on all products marketed within its jurisdiction. Information on these requirements can be obtained from:
Centre québécois d'inspection des aliments et de santé animale
200 Chemin Sainte-Foy
Québec, Québec G1R 4X6
Tel.: (418) 380-2120 and 1-800-463-5023
Fax: (418) 380-2169
email: [email protected]
Quebec French language labelling information can also be found at the Website of l'Office de la langue française: http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/
​

 

[metoo4]

Somebody who would do this mainly for his kid's health would go to the source to get information, not to an ESCORT site where he is know to complain regularly of being treated unfairly by the bad bad frenchies (his word).

His goal is again to bash French language and French culture. If he'd be in Germany, that would be in German. He's in Québec and here, according to the text I provided above, there's nothing wrong with the situation.

And if I would be concerned for my kid's health, I would simply ASK somebody to translate for me or, even safer, buy the damn product, bring it home and translate it myself or get it translated by somebody I trust, What's a few dollar spent for a product my kid can't use compare to it's health? It's not like I can't use the product myself so it's not wasted anyhow...

 

[protagoras]

Mon vieux, comme dirait Séraphin: La loi, c'est la loi.

 

[Techman]

When I contacted the OLF, they wouldn't help either

Let me get this straight here...you contacted the OLF because there was NO English on the package? The OLF are there to complain to if there IS English on the package. They'll probably send the store a letter of commendation.

Seriously though, whatever you were buying it wasn't packaged by a major company and was probably some local product or store packaged product. Look, Oqoc, if you're going to live in Quebec take some French lessons, read a local paper, watch French television and try to pick up some of the language or buy a book or a home computer French language course. But do something or at least stop complaining about it.

And if you buy food and you aren't sure if it contains a particular ingredient, try asking someone who works there. I'm sure they would be happy to help. If they aren't, then spend your money elsewhere.

Techman

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Why is this site continuing to allow language-related threads, which we all know, almost always provoke flame wars?

There are a lot of mainstream sites where one can get into such debates. Even though it is the lounge area, I think there is enough of a history here to see where this and other threads like it, eventually end up.

If the mods want to tolerate this sort of thing, then so be it.

 

[metoo4]

John, we all know the original poster is full of it but don't call that one too quick. Read the link I posted. It comes from a site that belong to the Canadian Government.

The point is, those are likely products sold by Jean Tremblay from Avenue Mont Royal, products that Jean Tremblay buy in bulk from la ferme de Léon St-Pierre on the south shore and chances are neither Léon or Jean speak English and have no intention to sell these products outside Québec. Why should Léon and Jean pay to get an official translation of their labels done when they are small local business with 95% of their target customers speaking French and living almost within walking distance from the place where they sell? That's what the law is talking about.

If it would be about safety, we would have to write-down the ingredient list in all the languages on hearth! Come on! It's not like it was impossible to easily get a translation! And it's not like whatever somebody is allergic to can't be learned in french!

When somebody really have it's kid's safety at heart, not having the intent to be seen as a martyr, that person can easily learn that "lait" means "milk", "arachides" means "peanuts" or whatever! It's not a question of language or politics, it's a question of safety and good sense.

A friend of mine is allergic to peanuts, deadly allergic. Believe me, he know the word "peanuts" in the language of whatever place he visit, he make a point to find-out how it's written AND how to pronounce it properly so, Ocoq, isn't your kid's safety worth stepping on your misplaced pride and isn't it time to learn some French? Not for the "frenchies" but for the love of your kid.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I don't understand why the Mods just don't enforce the original ban on Ocoq, imposed back when he was Anglophuck. It would save the board a whole lot of problems. Tolerating someone who blatantly sidesteps bans by registering a new user name just reduces respect for the Mods' decisions generally.

And by the way, Ocoq, it not just the so-called 'Frenchies' who 'get angry' at you. Many of us Anglos get pissed off at you because: (a) You are a walking caricature of the "Ugly Anglo" that the anti-Anglo forces love to use as an example; and (b) Your complaints are an exact mirror image of those used by anti-English agitators in Quebec. It's scary how alike you sound:

-"I couldn't get served in [English/French] at a restaurant [East/West] of Saint-Laurent"
-"My food only has labeling in [English/French] in violation of the law"
-"[English/French] people are biased against me and my family because I'm [French/English]"
-"Why are people speaking in [English/French] to me?"

Simple logical consistency requires that if we think some crazy Jeune Patriote is silly, annoying, and often a bigot when he spouts such rubbish, we must think it of you when you spout the same.

Sorry to the board for the language-related blast only tangentially related to the thread topic. I just couldn't hold it in any more. I don't think I've ever known someone so obtuse.

 

[metoo4]

Yos, you nailed it right on.

 

[Mod 8]

Hello everyone,

We were aware that Ocoq was previously Anglophuck. When this was discovered, we decided to give him a chance to see if he was serious about becoming a worthwhile member of MERB. He was also notified that we were aware of his former handle and warned to stay away from such posts that had gotten him banned originally. As things have turned out, it seems that he is more interested in complaining about having to learn a bit of French than he is in anything else.

As a result of this, he has been banned permanently from MERB. He was given a second chance and he wasted it. He will not be given another.

We understand that language topics will come up on MERB on occasion and that they may get quite heated at times. But that is a different situation than having a member who includes language complaints in most every post he makes. This is unacceptable. MERB is and has always been a bilingual board where the members may express themselves freely in the language they feel most comfortable with. This is not about to change. Any member who is not willing to accept this should not be here.

Thank you,

Mod 8

 

[sapman99]

Ironically enough

A few years back The Ottawa Citizen ran a story about a bakery in south-eastern Ontario who thought it was unfair that they needed to have their baked goods labeled in two official languages when they were only offering them for local sale... They didn't see the need for French in this case.

Maybe it was as a result of that complaint that the federal law was changed and now we can have unilingual French food labeling on the Plateau .

Vive le Canada! By the way I love my country, but often give my head a shake.

 

[Dr Edgar Who]

I really doubt Ocoq was even a "new" anglo in Montreal.

His new nickname is surely a reference to the Mordecai Richler
book : O Canada, O Quebec and he would be more likely to be
familiar with this book if he was from here. Either an anglophone
shitdisturber or a francophone who likes to makes anglophones
look bad.

Bye, we won't miss ya!

 

[Techman]

I figured he got his name from the Au Coq BBQ chicken restaurants. Probably heard the name somewhere but didn't know how to spell it. It's French you know. Au, O, it's an honest mistake. Suitable too since it seems he's been cooked.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I also noticed the Richler reference in Ocoq's handle. Unlike Dr. Who, however, I actually believed he was from out West as he claimed. I just assumed he read the book back when he was a teenager, and he has hated French Quebec ever since.

Alternatively, perhaps he already hated Quebec and that's why he was drawn to the book.

I wonder, though, whether we just expelled him from the only place he had to vent his silly views. I hope we don't see a front page story about a disgruntled Anglo going postal in the next few months. Maybe someone can hook him up with Howard Galganov or something.

 

[Merlot]

Hello all,

I don't think I've ever known someone so obtuse.

Actually, he has an equally opposite number on the French side. No names please.

I don't understand why the Mods just don't enforce the original ban on Ocoq, imposed back when he was Anglophuck. It would save the board a whole lot of problems. Tolerating someone who blatantly sidesteps bans by registering a new user name just reduces respect for the Mods' decisions generally.

And by the way, Ocoq, it not just the so-called 'Frenchies' who 'get angry' at you. Many of us Anglos get pissed off at you because: (a) You are a walking caricature of the "Ugly Anglo" that the anti-Anglo forces love to use as an example; and (b) Your complaints are an exact mirror image of those used by anti-English agitators in Quebec. It's scary how alike you sound:

-"I couldn't get served in [English/French] at a restaurant [East/West] of Saint-Laurent"
-"My food only has labeling in [English/French] in violation of the law"
-"[English/French] people are biased against me and my family because I'm [French/English]"
-"Why are people speaking in [English/French] to me?"

Simple logical consistency requires that if we think some crazy Jeune Patriote is silly, annoying, and often a bigot when he spouts such rubbish, we must think it of you when you spout the same.

Sorry to the board for the language-related blast only tangentially related to the thread topic. I just couldn't hold it in any more. I don't think I've ever known someone so obtuse.

First, regarding product labeling, even in the U.S. many products and all medical products I see often offer English, Spanish, and French...sometimes also German, Japanese and other languages.

I agree with YS. This kind of self-damaging thinking is not a peculiarly French or English tragedy. It's a human embarrassment.

My good friend in Montreal, born speaking French and now speaking almost perfect English, keeps telling me it's so funny how an American is so willing to learn and speak French when there are many on both sides of the bilingual culture in Montreal unwilling to learn the second language. I learned some basic French in high school and I have held on to the basic essentials for many years, adding more every time I visit Montreal. I am still not very good on the whole. But I want to keep learning. I enjoy learning languages and would love to be able to know many more.

So it seems very oddly unnatural to me for those who live in a bilingual world to hide from the second language. Because hiding is what has to happen. With that bilingual world all around, you must have to make a great effort not to pick up essential key words over the years. I live in a area where only one language is needed, and still just by being open I am told I know more of a second language than many Montrealers. That's difficult to accept. Why reject what can only help when the necessity is unavoidable. Despite the cultural resentments, one must have to work very, very hard to avoid learning so little that you lack that essential necessary vocabulary skills to protect yourself or your family. That kind of effort shows a disturbingly self-damaging attitude that is inexcusable no matter what cultural attitudes one may harbor inside.

All I can say to anyone who has such a resentment that it prevents them from having the skills to be safe and live healthy, to where this situation is now a real threat to you and your family...YOU are and have always been the problem. When one rejects what one must have, no one else is to blame.

If you are from somewhere else, I have had no problem finding any item in both French and English in Montreal.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[metoo4]

Merlot, I work with Americans and I experienced exactly what your friend is talking about. I often have Americans working with me in Montréal and, the phrase that comes quite often when out for food or at a bar is "How do I say ... in French?" Even in the US, I had peoples asking me to speak to them in French so they could practice the little they learned in school!

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Americans generally have a fetish with French, as do most (but not all) well-educated English Canadians. Just look at the "Education" section of iTunes podcasts: Five of the top 15 are French classes. French has a romantic place in the international Anglo's imagination that other languages spoken by as many people (say, German or Russian) simply do not.

The problem for the unilingual native Anglo Montrealer (and apparently some other Anglo Canadians) is that French has been a source of frustration for their whole lives. They couldn't make friends with someone, couldn't tell what meat was on sale, couldn't get a certain job or promotion or certification, couldn't understand what the Hydro guy was saying. They've gotten dirty looks from police officers, civil servants, waitresses, and merchants when their unilingualism manifested itself. Additionally, they don't get the free pass that tourists get. These people will never see French as a cool Romantic language. It is the language of the oppressor, just as English is the language of the oppressor for some unilingual French Montrealers.

So, you may ask, why wouldn't they just learn French, given all this adversity? I tend to blame the parents. No native Montrealer should grow up unable to carry a basic conversation in French; to be honest I don't know how they do. But if they don't speak French by 13, it's going to be tough. For people without an affinity for languages it can be extremely difficult. Some people respond well to such adversity, others don't.

People who don't speak French, have difficulty learning languages, and are uncomfortable out of their comfort zone find it easy to stay mostly in their neighborhood. They know they should get out more and learn French, but they don't. For better or worse, you can still live very comfortably in certain areas of Montreal without speaking French (why Ocoq chose the Plateau is beyond me), even if you can't really begin to appreciate all the city has to offer.

So they stay in the neighborhood they grew up in, be it Westmount or Hampstead or the West Island. They may occasionally go party on Crescent street, but it's more likely to be a bar on Sources. Every so often, they'll take a French class, because they know they should, but it will end in frustration, because it's hard to do 5 hours of practice every week when you live in the West Island and your kids or your neighbors or your neighbor's kids think your accent is just too funny.

To be fair, I could be talking out of my ass. I actually don't think I currently know any native Anglo Montrealers who can't carry a basic conversation in French. I think they're a dying breed, particularly among the educated. But I do know Anglos who have moved to Montreal from elsewhere in Canada and the U.S. Sometimes they manage to learn French, sometimes they don't. But when they don't, they tend to see it as a personal failing, and the resulting frustration is not felt to be a violation of their rights.

I've gone on too long...

 

[metoo4]

...

To be fair, I could be talking out of my ass. I actually don't think I currently know any native Anglo Montrealers who can't carry a basic conversation in French. I think they're a dying breed, particularly among the educated.

...

Again, your're right on!

The only thing I differ is what I quoted above. I can present you a handful if you like! Highly educated, late 30s early 40s, holding key positions in big companies and making a few hundred thousand $ a year! Those are the worst since they think so highly of themselves they don't see why they would lower themselves to speak French.

 

[Mod 8]

Another thread that has gone on too long and has no reason to exist.

Thread closed.

Mod 8

 

[Mod 8]

Hello everyone,

I have received a number of PMs regarding the closing of this thread. There are two reasons it was closed, the first one being that we do not need a pointless language discussion on the board which will eventually turn into a flame war. The other, and main reason, is that the thread starter has been permanently banned and is no longer able to respond to any posts directed at him. This is unfair and as such the thread has been closed.

Thank you,

Mod 8