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Thread: Largest ever child sex ring broken up 150 pimps arrested, 105 children saved

  1. #1

    Largest ever child sex ring broken up 150 pimps arrested, 105 children saved


  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by John S. Black View Post
    The only justice for people who sexually abuse children is to take them out and shoot them!
    well said John like to ask these bastards how would they feel if this is done to their children and their sisters.

  3. #3
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    Too quick. Put them in prison but in general population. I would give them 48 hrs to survive.
    I do not think outside the box, I do not think inside the box, I do not even know where the box is.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by amazona View Post
    well said John like to ask these bastards how would they feel if this is done to their children and their sisters.
    They probably won't feel bad about it.

    I rather these pimps get tortured 24 hours non-stop.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptRenault View Post
    ...

    As for those of you calling for the torturing and shooting (without a trial too?) of the alleged criminals, I hope you never get caught using the services of a girl who looks 21 but is really 17 1/2 with a fake ID. I know that nobody here would intentionally seek out such a provider, but we all know that it is a risk of seeing a younger provider. I don't think it happens much with reputable agencies in Montreal, but it easily could. Do you really believe that you should be tortured or shot if it happened to you?
    I agree entirely. Obviously they are not going to show pics of the ladies to let us judge whether this is clearly child prostitution (which we all agree is extremely bad). It is a taboo subject, but with the fattening of America and the marketing of make-up and sexy clothing to American teens, there are a lot of 16 and 17 year-olds that look like college senior coeds used to look like a decade ago. The guy that answers the Backpage ad and goes to her hotel room thinks she is 18 or over because she certainly looks that old to him, and he figures if she was under 18 that she could not have checked into the hotel. The age of consent in many of those states is 16 for "non-paid" sex, but if the guy pays for it, and the girl is less than 18, he is in big trouble. Like you, I disapprove and wish that no minors were in the industry, but I am not willing to condemn every guy. There are plenty of Montreal escort agencies that advertise 18 year olds. So a guy is praised for doing a review of an 18 year old, but should be jailed for inadvertantly seeing a 17.5 year old? That is just not right, especially since the guy does not get to see her ID.

  6. #6
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    Hello all,

    Quote Originally Posted by amazona View Post
    well said John like to ask these bastards how would they feel if this is done to their children and their sisters.
    Maybe most of these people might draw a line at family relations, but do you real feel it's safe to say they don't also exploit their families too. I don't put any faith in the idea that those evil enough to use children like this are necessarily respecting their own children and/or relations. Once one has the sickness where does it really stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptRenault View Post
    But this story just goes to show that, thankfully, the problem of child prostitution is not nearly as big as law enforcement and anti-prostitution activists say.
    I think anyone making such assumptions about the extent of child slavery based on one large arrest episode is making an evaluation they wanted to make before any of this episode was known. If you want to base your opinion on what the FBI found then contradicting when the FBI says “sex trafficking among children remains one of the most prevalent, violent and unconscionable crimes in this country,” it contradicts the basis of your opinion. Using this case alone to back up a predisposed view is full of wishful thinking in my view.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptRenault View Post
    As for those of you calling for the torturing and shooting (without a trial too?) of the alleged criminals, I hope you never get caught using the services of a girl who looks 21 but is really 17 1/2 with a fake ID.
    About torture, I'm sure some mean what they say and others are having a very understandable emotional reaction. I can't say I blame them for feeling either way, but you make a good point. Considering that underage ladies have been exposed in this hobby before it's likely anyone who has been in it for a while and goes with ladies listed under, say 25 years old, may have easily made this mistake.

    Yet, these types of criminals tend to get singled out for "special treatment" in prison and I find it very, very hard to have any sympathy for them when they destroy young lives knowing the treatment if they get caught.



    Merlot

  7. #7
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    With all due respect Capt, your logic seems flawed. 150 pimps, but only 105 children? Unless things have changed, pimps are not known for sharing "employees". If that is the case,then several children were not found. The article stated that it was the seventh of it's kind. That means the problem is ongoing. Cut off the Hydra's head and another grows in it's place. To say that the problem is not as big as believed is naive in my opinion.

    The article stated that classified ads and social media sites were used. From what I know of child prostitution, which was learned from news shows/articles, it is a secretive crime. Like the trading of child pornography, it is done under the cover of anonymity, but amongst "club members" with unique ways of identifying themselves. Only fools would have answered ads or social media sites of a previously unknown origin. It is also possible that I am just underestimating the law enforcement agencies involved. If I'm not, then the more experienced perverts are still out out there.

    As for punishment, once found guilty, these diseased pieces of filth should be eradicated in ways the Mods would never allow me to post.
    Shorter of breath...One day closer to death. Pink Floyd

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by John S. Black View Post
    The only justice for people who sexually abuse children is to take them out and shoot them!
    Start with the ankles... then the knees... don't forget any joints and let it sit for a few hours till you get to the balls, then the "vital" stuff...

  9. #9
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    Hello CR,

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptRenault View Post
    But this story just goes to show that, thankfully, the problem of child prostitution is not nearly as big as law enforcement and anti-prostitution activists say.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptRenault View Post
    Furthermore, these kinds of busts have happened several times over a number or years and they always involve the same small numbers of people. Yet, the anti-prostitution activists always maintain that:

    Real Men Get Their Facts Straight

    Village Voice Media examined arrest records for juvenile prostitution in the nation's 37 largest cities over a ten-year period.

    I stand by my argument that the real purposes of these busts is to create positive PR for law enforcement and to stir up public anger with the ultimate goal of passing new tough Swedish style laws against all prostitution.
    I don't know what kind of expertise, if any, Ashton Kutcher has. I had totally forgotten hearing of his views when I posted previously and Iwouldn't credit him with much anyway. My point was you seemed to be using this episode (large or small) to prove something you decided already. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that if you've researched the subject thoroughly, however, looking to reinforce a decision already made is risky. As a history person I've seen the problem many times when new evidence forces reevaluation. Even dedicated experts lock their minds into old archaic views, and foolishly dismiss other possibilities because of traditional views.

    While some may be exaggerating the problem, possibly grossly, how many children does it take to define it as a "large" problem, 1,000, 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000? Just because the population of the U.S. is one of the largest in the world this issue is not small because of some lesser percentage. It's about selling children. The crime itself is huge whatever the numbers, and if anyone doesn't think so because of what they worry about or fear about social politics they need reevaluate their perspective. If you are worried that the PR aspects of anti-child prostitution raids like the subject here may affect some sort of political maneuvering, I have to ask how could anyone on whatever side of this numbers bantering could not be deeply affected regardless of biased PR advantages to a socio-political position. This is children being treated like trash. EVERYONE should be deeply affected.

    Please explain...how many child prostitutes would be a BIG PROBLEM in your view??? I don't think the real numbers are the point or should be fought over even if some want to use them for their own agendas.

    Cheers,

    Merlot

  10. #10
    I call it bullshit. Wait to get the whole story.

    The story is framed. They don't even pretend it is not. It is built for an effect. My guess is very simple: the newsrooms are unable to get their hands on some solid demonstration of the pseudo human trafficking epidemic. And the people feeding them the story are in great need to justify the continuation of their special program funding.

    Merlot, we can push the number game to the end: one is one too many.

    However, I have a strong conviction that child abuse is on the decline worldwide. It certainly is here, in our society. Some things made to the children less than 5 decades ago would come close to what we define as abuse today. I am also convinced that in most countries of the world, sex workers are older today than in any other time. It was normal, at least very frequent under the supervision of the law, to be a prostitute at 16 in Paris in the 19th Century. I'd suggest anyone not to be found with one today. Marriage before 18, especially for the girls, was natural here less than 50 years ago in the rural areas. And families had a lot to say as to whom someone would get married to.

    Child abuse has always existed and is here to stay since some of it has pathological origins. Elsewhere is the reason for framing the bust.


    Thanks captr for pointing Weitzer. I would also suggest Laura Agustin (the Naked Anthropologist).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptRenault View Post
    Village Voice Media examined arrest records for juvenile prostitution in the nation's 37 largest cities over a ten-year period. Law enforcement records show that there were only 8,263 arrests in these cities for child prostitution during the most recent decade, averaging 826 arrests per year. This number is a far cry from the 100,000 to 300,000 number of child prostitutes advocates and the media have been trumpeting for years.
    Roll over each city to see the year-by-year statistics of child prostitution arrests for each city....

    I stand by my argument that the real purposes of these busts is to create positive PR for law enforcement and to stir up public anger with the ultimate goal of passing new tough Swedish style laws against all prostitution.
    For sake of comparing apples with apples, do you know for fact how many juvenile prostitutes total these 8,263 arrests involve?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Palahniuk View Post
    For sake of comparing apples with apples, do you know for fact how many juvenile prostitutes total these 8,263 arrests involve?
    Alright so you don't know the answer.

    Unless all of the 8,263 persons arrested were underaged prostitutes, the comparison is not acceptable. What if, for sake of argument, all of the 8,263 persons arrested were pimps working independently and that each pimp on average had 10 underaged prostitutes under his control? Here we would be talking about 80,000 juvenile prostitutes.

    The point is that the Village Voice's report provides no detail on the 8,263 arrests. It just says: "This number is a far cry from the 100,000 to 300,000 number of child prostitutes advocates and the media have been trumpeting for years." Basically it's like saying: there can't be four eggs in the nest because there's only one hen in the barnyard.

    Village Voice is no less guilty of manipulating numbers and the fact they are reproduced here without giving it a thought may as well hint at some ulterior motive.

  13. #13
    1 It is obvious from reading the article that the arrests are individual cases.

    2 To make the type of inference you try to do, you would need to start with pimping arrest, not child arrests.

    3 The result of your inference would be 80 000 juvenile prostitute CASES OVER 10 YEARS. You cannot mix synchronic analysis with time series.

    Village Voice is certainly not guilty of manipulating numbers in this article. They legitimately question the link between the 1000/y arrests and the fantasy statistics provided by organizations needing the money for their moral crusade. They do not pretend they know the real numbers. They simply state that they have serious reasons not to believe the organizations providing these numbers and they explain why.

    4 Would you mind clarifying the "ulterior motive" you're talking about? It is useless to make such statement otherwise.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Laflamme View Post
    I don't know if you're trying to be rhetorical, but on account of what law would underage prostitutes be arrested? As far as I'm aware, at least in Canada, underage prostitutes are considered victims. That means, yeah, out of those 8,263 people, most of them were probably pimps, though it is very unlikely all of them were. A whole bunch of them were likely people aiding or abetting said-pimps' crimes.

    As for your hypothesis that each pimp would have on average 10 underage prostitutes under his/her wing, I think that's quite generous. In fact, if you look through the news for stories of pimps being arrested for pimping out minors, the number of victims is usually quite low, such as in the example provided as a thread starter, where 150 pimps were arrested compared to 105 minors saved.

    Unfortunately, your logical and humanitarian assumption is incorrect. Most U.S. prositution laws were not drafted to provide an automatic exclusion for the underaged sex worker. The vast majority of the time the prosecutor wisely chooses to simply not bring any charges against the underaged sex worker. There have of course been a few isolated instances in which an asshole of a prosecutor did bring charges.

    This fact is used by End Demand extensively. Almost all of the End Demand proposed legislation mercifully includes statutes to exclude underaged sex workers from prosecution, and they use those isolated instances in which a juvenile was charged as examples of why the law needs to be changed. But their proposed legislation always includes provisions strengthening the penalties for johns in concensual sex transactions. They present the bill as protecting underaged sex workers, but they do not really give a shit about underaged sex workers, they just use them as a Trojan Horse to get their enhanced john penalties through the system.

    Most hobbyists in the U.S., fortunately, never encounter underaged prostitutes or these "pimps" they discuss. Honestly, I view these types of sting operations with a skeptical eye. Notice that many of the locations are places like race tracks. The problem here is quite simply poverty. There is a huge underclass of American families that live on the edge of society. They live in cars that park in WalMart lots at night and in shelters and low-quality transient housing. The kids do not receive much of an education, and how can they? Try studying at night with a flashlight in a car.

    Inevitably some of these girls start offering sexual services at a young age and at low prices to those they have contact with, i.e. members of the American underclass who do not have much money and hang out on the streets or in sleazy places. Those guys may or may not know that the girls are underage. Most of these customers just take what is offerred to them within their environment - they have no idea how to find willing providers on the internet and they could not afford those providers, anyway. The girls use the little bit of money they receive to help their family get by on their day to day existence. The FBI may argue that all of the adult family members are pimps living off the earnings of a juvenile prostitute. In fact, they were all just trying to survive.

    The "rescued" victims will likely end up in foster care or a group home, where the girl's life will not be that much better than it was before. Maybe a few more resources than before (that is not guaranteed with the low funding of foster care), but a break with whatever family they had, which may result in psychological and emotional problems, particularly if their dad, uncle or brother is labeled a pimp and sent to jail.

    The problem in these cases is POVERTY, not prostitution. But law enforcement does not fix the poverty problem. They will present the story as a feel good one of them "saving" some nice suburban teenagers who got talked into doing something they did not want to do by a gold-toothed man they met at the mall. But that is not what happened. End Demand will present the story as a bunch of well-off men roaming the streets and searching the internet for helpless teen girls, but that is not what happened. The hobbyists who post on these types of boards only want to see providers who are in control of their lives and are eighteen years old or more. Neither the providers or the hobbyists on these boards have much in common with the people in these articles, but End Demand will never understand that.


    Law Enforcement and End Demand will just use these operations for favorable publicity and to further their agendas. They do not really care about the underaged girls or their families, whose biggest problem is living in poverty with no hope of getting out of poverty. Fix poverty and provide opportunities in the U.S. and this underaged prostitution issue goes away.

  15. #15
    Sidney, I don't think that's what Dick Plalahniuk meant at all. The question is how many victims (underaged prostitutes) are related to the 8000 and something arrests? 1? 500? 10000? 100000? We don't know. Whoever claims to know based on his impression or what he thinks sounds right or on his strong convictions is no more no less making up facts thanthe people who claim there are 100000 to 300000 juvenile prostitutes in the USA.

    In any case, who cares? The number is what it is. Regardless of it, LE must do everything it takes - EVERYTHING - to stop these slimy criminals.

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