About rent, questions for the owners/landlords or lawyers

[Halloween Mike]

Here are the questions, for context etc read the text if you don't find it too long..

1) Can a rent (bail in french) be broken in case of situations out of controls like neighbors being too hard to live with? Can "perte de joie de vivre" be used as an argument? Since they started renting in March, could an exeption be made at the "regie du logement" if we decide to go lets say in august because its too hard to live here anymore. Could we use the argument that the situation changed and we couldn't know before?

2) Can stuff like noise clause can be put on rent, for instance no noise at certain hours, or a certain level etc if we go to a different place. Making sure this don't happen again?

3) Whats the real legal laws about noise? I mean is it really 11 to 7, or all time? How much warnings/tickets can police give before more can be done either by owner or the law?

No idea if americans and canadians law are different on this, but if you are americans precise it so i know that it may be


So you guys probably remember i had issues with neighbors a few years ago. We moved out and found a nice new place. It had been great for years because the way it is made, our kitcher/living room is over a neighbor downstair but the upper part (bedrooms) was above a commercial place. So far the 2 neighbors we had downstair were cool in general, the first one did go to sleep late/put some music at times late but since our bedrooms are another level above, it never was an issue at all. And since she was a mid 30 "hot lady" she would go out often and bottom line is she never was an issue. Since last year its a mother with her son and exept her son sometimes raging on fortnite when things don't go well (wich i found rather funnier than bothering because i can relate) they don't make noise in general and never bothered us at night. The son threw ONE party at new year once but he told us before and it was an exeption, and even there we didn't hear much on top, it was just annoying in the living room that evening but since it was an exeption, its fine...

But here is the new thing. The commercial place in front has been turned into an appartement because the former business that was there moved (due to the owner raising the rent too much) and no new business came in months, so instead of loosing money the owner decided to turn it into a normal appartement. And sadly it ended up being peoples who just don't know how to live in society. The owner really isolated as best as he could because it was very badly isolated at first due to the commercial nature of it, its not "soundproof" but he put all he could in regular isolation. So its not an issue of "bad isolation" or such.

But those peoples like i said, they are not "good peoples", they been in jail (dude told me himself), they barely sleep (i suspect they take "vivian") , they spend most of the night up and play music, loud TV etc. I been there a couple times before to tell him to lower the music, until yesterday it was "alright" , he would do it and altough i would still hear noise and "some" music, it was tolerable. But i grew tired of it and yesterday at 1 am i got there again because i was hearing "bass" in my room. They got pissed because "it was just TV" and started to tell me im trying to prevent them to live and other shit like that. I told him, in the day im pretty tolerant, put your music, i won't bother you (and today no idea if he wanted to be more of a jerk but he put it pretty loud, i was feeling the bass on my floor, but it didn't last too long) but at night im the kind of guy who want a "0 noise" style. They don't seem to comprehend the concept of 11 to 7 no noise rule. I even heard technically even in the day your not supose to make "exercisse noise" but im not sure, maybe a lawyer could confirm it or not, but anyway PERSONALLY ill tolerate noise in the day, even if annoying, ill just put my gaming headset if i need to.

The little hope is that its been a few times i get in text with the owner and he said if they are too much of a pain he won't keep them for the next year (july+) but currently they have paid til june so in the meantime he recommanded i call the cops , wich i would prefer not but if it comes to that... :/ I really hope he keep his word and does eject them but i told him, with the current virus issues we can't currently go visit place and tell him if we leaving or not, but if it becomes intolerable... wich led me to the questions above...

Oh did i also mention it smell weed in my room so often now? Even tough im not a smoker myself, im not exeptionally annoyed by the smell, i would rather not it to be there but i can tolerate that, but others maybe would not. And the guy been receiving friends (and at night) even with the quanrentine in effect now...

 

[OnJustALark]

Not sure of the law in Quebec and Montreal, but here locally the police have said that a "neighbor in an apartment building can not infringe upon your right to NOT have pot smell in YOUR unit even if THEY are allowed, by law, to enjoy the sustance - it, however, can NOT impact your living space. Call the cops. Good luck.

 

[HookerHounter]

If your current lease end in end of June this year, you have till March 31st to notify landlord your decision in writing to protect your rights and to give options to your landlord in reason of your downstairs effects your peaceful enjoyment of your apartment. If by July the problems still there, you maybe have to move to somewhere else. Good luck!

 

[Halloween Mike]

Good to know for the weed. Honestly this is the less bothering thing of the bunch for me, but it could be usefull if i have to use it. I mean i can't say i like that my room smell weed a bit (its not like super prohiminent but it smell) but if it was ONLY that i could live with it. Yesterday it was super loud many times during the day but at least it was the day and the night part was calm so i see it as a win. Today it was rather quiet in the day, so far so good for night (even tough its mostly evening) but with them we never know. Just hoping i can sleep later and it stays quiet. Hopefully the owner was very clear this time.

Wich led me to part 2

The thing is with him is that he has rather hard to reach, he is a business owner always busy. Even when he comes here he always appear in a hurry, even on phone last time i spoke to him i had to make it fast.

So Hooker, can i put an open option in that letter, like i reserve the right to leave if things are still shit? The thing is, we do like the place, we do want to stay, even more with the damn virus wich make things harder to find a new place obviously at the moment, but if things do not stay calm with these peoples i don't see myself living a year like that.

Thing is yes i have not yet involved the cops, im actually not a fan of cops personally in the first place, so maybe a ticket or 2 would make him reconsider, but then there is always the fear it may do the opposite, angry him so he make more noise, even do bad stuff like on the car and such... The other place we left with the crazy neighbors, we never called the cops ourselves because how it was made, we didn't heard them too much at night, it was all the other neighbors that got the noise, we had only 1 wall next to them and it was our kitchen, so not a place we were often in... We didn't heard them a lot in living room and less in the bedrooms due to how it was done. But she called the cops on them and they kept doing it, it never stopped them... considering the kind of peoples they were, i wouldn't be surprised a week or 2 in jail to pay tickets wouldn't bother him...

Anyway... all i ask is to have normal peoples for neighbors damn it lol. Peoples who work in the day, go to sleep at night, middle age familly or old folks, no drug involvement etc

 

[jalimon]

So Hooker, can i put an open option in that letter, like i reserve the right to leave if things are still shit?

No you cannot. The letter has to be clear if you renew or not. If you dont the owner will have to start to look to replace you.

Sorry I did not read the whole thing but verbally tell your owner that you will leave if they occupants don't go away. He may then find reason to throw them out instead of seeing you leave.

Cheers,

 

[jalimon]

Not sure of the law in Quebec and Montreal, but here locally the police have said that a "neighbor in an apartment building can not infringe upon your right to NOT have pot smell in YOUR unit even if THEY are allowed, by law, to enjoy the sustance - it, however, can NOT impact your living space. Call the cops. Good luck.

You must be from the States right? Very different here in Quebec. In the US yes you can call the cops. You can even throw tenants out if they do not pay the rent by calling the cops.

Here in Quebec you must file complaint with the Regie. He can drag on many months before reaching a conclusion. Being an owner is hard here that is why pretty much anything new being built is condo.

 

[Charlie Smart]

You actually cannot just throw tenants out in the US for non payment of rent...it is actually a long and expensive legal process...in the end the laws are more tenant vs landlord friendly in the US.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Charlie Smart is right about evictions in the USA and law being tenant friendly. In CT you have to serve what's called a "Notice To Quit" on the tenant specifying nonpayment of rent when due and if he doesn't get out, you then serve a complaint seeking possession. Once you get a judgment you then need to hire a State Marshal to serve what is called an execution which first must be signed by the Court clerk. The defendant gets 5 days postjudgment before you can serve an execution.

Right now all executions and evictions in Connecticut are stayed by order of Governor Lamont. So you can start an eviction lawsuit but cannot finish it. This due to Covid-19 and not wanting people kicked out of their homes.

I did a commercial eviction about 2 month ago and evicted a restaurant owner who wasn't paying his rent to my client, the landlord. The law provides that in a commercial eviction the tenant has 15 days to get his shit out of the rented space after service of the execution and if it's not removed the landlord gets to keep his shit and also gets storage charges as permitted locally. Fortunately we got the tenant out of there long before Governor Lamont's orders were issued.

I heard Quebec has some rental board and it's a sort of administrative tribunal. In Connecticut it is a strictly judicial process and there is no rental board.

 

[OnJustALark]

You actually cannot just throw tenants out in the US for non payment of rent...it is actually a long and expensive legal process...in the end the laws are more tenant vs landlord friendly in the US.

Correct ... want to see this play out ... watch the movie Pacific Heights with Michael Keaton .... brilliantly done and should scare anyone thinking of being a landlord!

I never posted they could be thrown out ... simply that stench of pot in YOUR unit from another person's unit is an invasion of privacy and cops can be called here in States ...

 

[EagerBeaver]

OnJustALark,

That would be considered the tort of private nuisance- which is different than the tort of invasion of privacy. It's potentially a grounds for eviction of the tenant as well. Most residential leases have provisions that state a tenant cannot create a nuisance on the premises and it's a breach of the lease if it happens. However for one neighbor against the other it's not a lease issue but a private nuisance issue. It is a deprivation of the use and enjoyment of the leasehold interest and damages would be measure by the deprivation. In Halloween Mike's case, if it was in Connecticut, damages would be measured by an abatement of the amount of monthly rental. In other words the tenant owes Mike a portion of his rent for each month of the nuisance consisting of the amount by which Mike was deprived of the use and enjoyment of his leasehold interest in the premises in each month in which the nuisance existed.

 

[Charlie Smart]

EagerBeaver knows of what he speaks!!!

 

[Mike Nelson]

In case you are wondering what the reason is for seeing people drape white sheets on their front door is. It is not to warn people of the covid-19 virus. The white sheet is to signify that they are on a rent strike. What a misguided sense of entitlement these people have. They want the landlord to give them free rent? I hope the landlord throws them out on the street.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Update...

So 3-4 days ago i crossed path with him (we stayed afar due to virus but spoke) and he apologized and said he had a bad day, something happened outside of his home and he was kinda piss that day so i was the one getting his frustration. Is it true? I dunno. Said he would be carefull and he does not want to be kicked out. Owner must have been very clear this time. Since then at least when it comes to music/overly loud noise like TV bass etc, its been "alright"

Now i still hear some "noise" even if its well after midnight, but its moderate and i guess tolerable. Im just used to live very quietly in the night, like making sure if i take a plate from the kitchen that i don't "cling" 2 of them together , stuff like that, always been very very carefull at night, some peoples i guess are not like that. But considering the shit it was before its an improvement. I just wish i could go back to 0 noise in the night but at least its better...

I would still rather have him go by summer, but well... Cause even without the over the top noise, can't say im fine of the whole type of person he is. Yesterday there was like 6/7 of them in front of his door(yeah they don't care about corona virus it seem, at all), and without going into big details its just not the type of persons i want to surround myself with. I would rather take an elderly couple or normal family with kids where the parents work in the day, stuff like that.

But if it remain like it is now, i guess if we have to stay til next year its ok. But we talked about moving next year. Thing is we have lots of stuff both me and the roomates and finding a place as big as we have now for a similar price may be challenging. And if we do, we can't be assure that even if current neighbors are fine, they won't go and same situation could happen again...

I wish i had my own house so bad...

 

[Charlie Smart]

With the Covid causing economic hardship for so many along with many financial aid programs (rent, payroll, etc..), I fear many people are going to abuse the system...stay home vs working and collect unemployment, or not pay rent...abuse galore.

 

[PSEfreak]

Its is very difficult to remove someone from a leased residential space in Qc. The law (Regie du Logement) tends to lean in the tenants favor.
Your only recourse is to call the police when noise or nuisance happens. Create a paper trail and if possible, if there are other tenants in building, get something in writing from them that they too are affected by the noise (highly recommended).
once you've accumulated adequate reports and complaints you increase you chances of removing the problem people if your landlord is on board, but removing someone is no cake walk.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Its is very difficult to remove someone from a leased residential space in Qc....you chances of removing the problem people if your landlord is on board, but removing someone is no cake walk.

The only good thing with this type of people is often they are uneducated/ignorant and do not know their right and/or will not engage in court stuff. Last time the noisy/crazy neighbors i talk about, the owner kicked them out and they didn't fough back. My little city is not known to be hard to get a new appartement either, plenty of them empty unlike Montreal and such. So owner raising the wage to maximum possible could also be a huge factor for them to want to move out.

 

[mr.magoo]

its called une lettre de decarpissement double check for the spelling... the article is 1974 or 1975.. good luck