Anna Nikova Revisited - Refunds

eastender

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The Anna Nikova episode has taken up alot of bandwidth in the last 24 hours and I am far from convinced that we have an accurate picture of what happened.

All the posts, including those deleted, do not portray a positive picture.
Alot has been posted about the inappropriate actions of all parties involved but the key question has not been asked and obviously not answered.

$1500.00 is a fair amount of money. Most of us will pick-up a loonie if we see one on the sidewalk. So the unasked question:

What would be the appropriate procedure to get a refund in such circumstances?

Stop diverting the subject to other issues as to whether proper reasearch was done, the morality of taping, mitigating circumstances, etc and simply answer the key question posed above.
 
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Apr 16, 2005
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I suggest the reason for the lack of such a narrow focus is that some members are not clear on the specific details. Apparently the mod acted quickly to do damage control by removing posts which contained the details. If a member happened to be away from his/her computer for a length of time the details might be fuzzy. I suggest you do a recap here which will also present the question within the context of the narrow focus you are seeking. You can keep names and the like out of it. Draft it as a hypothetical case in point.
 

eastender

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This Was Done

Regular Guy said:
I suggest the reason for the lack of such a narrow focus is that some members are not clear on the specific details. Apparently the mod acted quickly to do damage control by removing posts which contained the details. If a member happened to be away from his/her computer for a length of time the details might be fuzzy. I suggest you do a recap here which will also present the question within the context of the narrow focus you are seeking. You can keep names and the like out of it. Draft it as a hypothetical case in point.
The key question is hypothetical asking ".......... in such circumstances?" as opposed to this specific instance.

Again you are drifting from the issue at hand.
 
Apr 16, 2005
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eastender said:
The key question is hypothetical asking ".......... in such circumstances?" as opposed to this specific instance.

Again you are drifting from the issue at hand.
Actually it was the "circumstances" issue I thought should be clarified. Keep it in general terms if you like but I for one would like to have a bit more clarity. A bit of discussion by you, perhaps, to "prime the pump?" It doesn't hurt, for the sake of clarity to restate the issue as you see it.
 
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eastender

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Changing Perspective

Regular Guy said:
Actually it was the "circumstances" issue I thought should be clarified. Keep it in general terms if you like but I for one would like to have a bit more clarity. A bit of discussion by you, perhaps, to "prime the pump?" It doesn't hurt, for the sake of clarity to restate the issue as you see it.
Let's ask the question from a different perspective.

What circumstances would justify a full or partial refund in the situation described in the two Anna Nikova threads or in other situations where there is a high level of dissatisfaction?

or

We can frame the question in a different context. Obviously the $1200.00 was there at the start of the session. No dispute about the money being there at the start. Would a "Work in progress" approach be a viable alternative, payment being made in increments as the session progresses?

BTW if we the discussion focuses on the alternative question then it is rather obvious that refunds are not part of the equation.
 

freedom3

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Jun 10, 2006
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what happened?

I would appreciate it if someone could give a summary in english as to what happened. My french is too limited to understand the posts in the other threads. Thanks in advance to anyone who would do this.
 

seymourhass

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eastender said:
Let's ask the question from a different perspective.

What circumstances would justify a full or partial refund in the situation described in the two Anna Nikova threads or in other situations where there is a high level of dissatisfaction?

or

We can frame the question in a different context. Obviously the $1200.00 was there at the start of the session. No dispute about the money being there at the start. Would a "Work in progress" approach be a viable alternative, payment being made in increments as the session progresses?

BTW if we the discussion focuses on the alternative question then it is rather obvious that refunds are not part of the equation.
Eastender,


Given the client has done his homework or had a previous positive encounter with the provider.

Payment in increments would be a viable alternative given the length of the visit. A lot can happen in twelve hours.

I have to confess, I have been on the receiving end of some unscrupulous providers without any compensation, only to be told you roll the dice, you take your chances!
 

Special K

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I'm pretty lost as far as this whole episode goes. There's two threads titled "Anna Nikova" one in the 411 section and one in the outcall section. How much of the session did the guy's tape show? How did he get ripped off? I can't make heads or tails of most of the posts because they went from English to French.

Also, why aren't the mods doing their job and merging all the review posts in the 411 section to the thread in the outcall section? I distinctly remember being berated just last month by a Mod for starting my own threads on two gals I recently saw (which I've been doing for 5 f'n years by the way). On top of that gasparchanceaux' "offensive" posts are in both threads.

SK
 

Kepler

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eastender said:
What would be the appropriate procedure to get a refund in such circumstances?
The idea that someone is going to hand over $1500 or more, have her driver take off with the money, then spend a few hours with the girl, get two full services (as I remember he stated) and then start haggling over a partial refund (while the girl is high on crack!) is ludicrous , completely unrealistic in my mind.

I fear that any such attempt would be likely to end in someone getting hurt.

I think the best idea is to do incremental payments. This way the girl feels safe (she won't get stiffed) and the customer can cut his losses if things turn bad.

I'd prepare 4 to 6 envelopes with 2 - 3 hours payment each, and obviously I wouldn't keep them all in the same place.
 

Mod 8

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Regular Guy said:
I suggest the reason for the lack of such a narrow focus is that some members are not clear on the specific details. Apparently the mod acted quickly to do damage control by removing posts which contained the details. If a member happened to be away from his/her computer for a length of time the details might be fuzzy. I suggest you do a recap here which will also present the question within the context of the narrow focus you are seeking. You can keep names and the like out of it. Draft it as a hypothetical case in point.
Just a small clarification: no details were removed. All the details of the encounter are contained in the posts that remain on the board. All that was removed were links to audio and video recordings which were made without the SP in question`s permission.

M8
 

eastender

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Jun 6, 2005
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Two Points

Maxima said:
eastender,

What does one expect from a $1500 / 12 hrs date? in the point of view of a the client, the SP and the agency?

The answer is not too clear for most of us. Therefore it would be quite difficult for most of us establish a clear procedure / a fair amount for refund.
Your short post refers to two valid points.

Expectations. Each client,SP and agency would have subjective expectations. Regardless of the subjective nature of these expectations I feel it is valid to ask if it is a question of time or services or a blend of the two.

Procedure / a fair amount for a refund. You are correct that it would not be a very simple calculation. What is very important is that at least there is some recognition that in certain circumstances a refund is the proper option.
 

Possum Trot

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I'm thinking that the chances of receiving any kind of refund or compensation is about equal to the chances of the Leafs winning the Cup in '08-'09 or of Stephane Dion being nominated as Oilman of the Year.

The co-op group Tamara & Friends has cut her loose ( rightly so) so there is no one left in this equation but the john and the sp. So is there an approriate procedure ? I can't think of one. I imagine this girl is going to have a significant decline in business starting immediately.

Everyone loses.
 

rollingstone

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Sep 4, 2006
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I think a refund in such a situation would be appropriate from a customer service perspective. Of course some agencies will say whatever happens between 2 consenting adults is none of their business.

However, I can't help but point out that if you are the sort of person whom $1,500 is a sizable chuck of money, don't book 12 hours with someone you have never seen before! Heck, even if it is not a sizable sum for you, you are still spending 12 hours with someone! You'd think you would be a bit more selective!
 
Apr 16, 2005
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eastender said:
Let's ask the question from a different perspective.

What circumstances would justify a full or partial refund in the situation described in the two Anna Nikova threads or in other situations where there is a high level of dissatisfaction?

or

We can frame the question in a different context. Obviously the $1200.00 was there at the start of the session. No dispute about the money being there at the start. Would a "Work in progress" approach be a viable alternative, payment being made in increments as the session progresses?

BTW if we the discussion focuses on the alternative question then it is rather obvious that refunds are not part of the equation.
Okay! Looking at the first instance, fees paid to any professional usually involve an invoice which outlines the services provided and agreed upon in advance. There is often a fee structure involved and monitoring by a professional association to which clients often have some kind of recourse for adjudication. The fact that this is a marginal activity by societal standards makes the entire question moot. The best we might be able to manage is to apply generally accepted standards to this profession and perhaps prorate the refund. You are still left with the problem of adjudication.
In the second instance billing carried out by invoice would solve it all. But again with a marginal activity such as escorting most would find this ludicrous. Paying in increments would be the most pragmatic appeoach.
 

eastender

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Marginal Activity

Regular Guy said:
Okay! Looking at the first instance, fees paid to any professional usually involve an invoice which outlines the services provided and agreed upon in advance. There is often a fee structure involved and monitoring by a professional association to which clients often have some kind of recourse for adjudication. The fact that this is a marginal activity by societal standards makes the entire question moot. The best we might be able to manage is to apply generally accepted standards to this profession and perhaps prorate the refund. You are still left with the problem of adjudication.
In the second instance billing carried out by invoice would solve it all. But again with a marginal activity such as escorting most would find this ludicrous. Paying in increments would be the most pragmatic appeoach.
If we were to accept your description / definition of a marginal activity then it would be premature to call the workers professionals. They may work hard, face risks, get paid and have various positive attributes but they stop short of forming a profession.

Any consideration of a marginal activity has to be made within the context of the mainstream. Evidenced by boards such as this and changing attitudes over the last fifty years the marginal activity is approaching the mainstream at a brisk pace.

Perhaps pragmatism is a step forward.