Craig's list under fire

[JH Fan]

Craigslist founder rendered speechless by CNN's sex trafficking questions

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/yahoocan...speechless_by_cnn_s_sex_trafficking_questions

Mmm... I'm gonna stick to Merb

 

[Cronkite]

They were under fire a couple of years ago when the SP was killed in Boston. They changed the erotic section to the adult section to fool the public.

 

[Aeolus]

Okay, I viewed the CNN report. The reporter appears to lack objectivity, as she comes off as though she thinks something is wrong with prostitution. I find this amusing coming from this particular reporter because just look at her! How does someone her age land a gig with CNN? Would she seriously deny that her above average appearance, toned body, perky breasts, and fake blond hair didn't influence the people who hired her? Come on, she is far from being the most refined, objective reporter I've ever seen with her college girl speech mannerisms and backpack slung across her shoulder. She couldn't have gotten the job because she was the most qualified in this competitive job market, where a lot of talented people are scrambling for a handful of open jobs. She used her body to land the job she has, and she's hoping to prevent other women from also using their bodies to make a living? Seems very hypocritical and self-rightous to me.

 

[CaptRenault]

I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED to find that prostitutes are using Craigslist to advertise!

BTW, has anyone tried this girl from CL?

 

[daydreamer41]

They were under fire a couple of years ago when the SP was killed in Boston. They changed the erotic section to the adult section to fool the public.

This is for the US only, but I think they changed the Erotic Services name to Adult Services after several prosecutors from various US cities threatened to sue Craigslist in Federal court for aiding prostitution. The case was dismissed but the owner of Craigslist agreed to rename the Erotic Services section and require posters to pay $5 per ad. They have to pay by credit card and agree to a statement that they are not promoting illegal services, etc. This was before the Craigslist murder.

The reason why Craigslist started an Erotic Services section in the first place was that they would post in every section for Escort Services. He wanted to keep it all in one place. He was interviewed on 60 Minutes and he explained to the Interviewer that he does not condone or promote the advertisements posted, but his website's concept is that it is self-service. He has a small staff and he could not justify policing using his staff.

But because of the charge, there are some who advertise in the Personal section and in the Casual relationship section. It is free there, but they do get flagged quickly.

In Montreal and other locations outside of the US, they still have the Erotic Services Section.

 

[CS Martin]

Craigslist founder rendered speechless by CNN's sex trafficking questions

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/yahoocan...speechless_by_cnn_s_sex_trafficking_questions

Mmm... I'm gonna stick to Merb

Yup, and just wait until her next expose' (pun not intended) on this board's content and income. No this board does not condone or sponsor human trafficing!!! But, it seems this JSP (Journalist Service Provider) wants to widen the definition of "human trafficing"

 

[Merlot]

Okay, I viewed the CNN report. The reporter appears to lack objectivity, as she comes off as though she thinks something is wrong with prostitution. I find this amusing coming from this particular reporter because just look at her! How does someone her age land a gig with CNN? Would she seriously deny that her above average appearance, toned body, perky breasts, and fake blond hair didn't influence the people who hired her? Come on, she is far from being the most refined, objective reporter I've ever seen with her college girl speech mannerisms and backpack slung across her shoulder. She couldn't have gotten the job because she was the most qualified in this competitive job market, where a lot of talented people are scrambling for a handful of open jobs. She used her body to land the job she has, and she's hoping to prevent other women from also using their bodies to make a living? Seems very hypocritical and self-rightous to me.

Aeolus,

The founder of Craig's List can't even find an idea to defend himself for the sex trafficking on his website, which he pledged to keep out and is illegal in the U.S., and you want to blame the reporter for her looks and mannerisms. ISH!!! Is that really more to the point than the gross exploitation of women and girls? You may have some sort of rosy vision of prostitution, but don't forget many of the "women" are not fully self-responsible adults making a free willing career choice here.

Craig reminds me of those tobacco barons. "I know nothing...NOTHING" (sergeant Schultz).

Yup, and just wait until her next expose' (pun not intended) on this board's content and income. No this board does not condone or sponsor human trafficing!!! But, it seems this JSP (Journalist Service Provider) wants to widen the definition of "human trafficing"

Yes, we all participate here, but that doesn't mean we should totally lose all scruples just to avoid the hypocrisy.

C'mon,

Merlot

 

[Aeolus]

You may have some sort of rosy vision of prostitution, but don't forget many of the "women" are not fully self-responsible adults making a free willing career choice here.

Merlot, no, actually I don't have a rosy vision of prostitution, but I do accept its reality in so far as it pertains to untrafficked, unpimped adult providers. I don't like it when people try to impose their biblical versions of morality on the rest of us. If no one is getting hurt, everyone is an adult, and the actions are consensual, then people should be able to buy, sell, and use whatever they please. Your body, your money, your choice.

Of all the sex ads, what percentage of them do you honestly think are posted by independent providers versus pimps who hawk exploited women and girls? I personally don't know the answer because I've never used Craig's list for this purpose, but I'd guess that most are probably independent adult providers ... or vice officers looking for a collar. Yet the journalist sensationalizes things by playing-up the "helpless underage victims" card in order to outrage viewers. Where was the interview with an independent provider who would probably represent the majority of advertisers? Reports are supposed to be balanced. Hers was not.

Craig provides a service. I'm not going to fault the man for what others do with his product, any more than I would fault a gun manufacturer for producing a rifle that was ultimately used in a homicide. Perhaps Craig didn't have an answer for not purging underage ads because many, if not most of them, are posted by police departments in an attempt to ensnare scumbag pedophiles.

 

[daydreamer41]

I have to agree with Aeolus on this one. The majority of the ads on CL, if not 99.999 percent, do not involve Human trafficking. Human trafficking has to be very rare in the US or Canada. It involves keeping several women enslaved without the ability of escaping or calling for help. The only setup that could keep a woman from calling for help would be a brothel where the women would be kept captured 24/7 with people there at all times to ensure they would not leave. And these women would probably not know the local language either. These women could not be Escorts doing outcall. They could not be a single woman at an Incall apartment or hotel. And at a brothel type of establishment, it would take only one woman to call police to break up the entire operation.

I have read about women from China or Korea being held tricked into SP work in a MP. I am sure there is a percentage of underaged run aways who fall victim to pimps and are enslaved by fear. It happens, but not in the percentages that some of the women rights groups will have you believe.

 

[Merlot]

Hello all,

Merlot, no, actually I don't have a rosy vision of prostitution, but I do accept its reality in so far as it pertains to untrafficked, unpimped adult providers. I don't like it when people try to impose their biblical versions of morality on the rest of us. If no one is getting hurt, everyone is an adult, and the actions are consensual, then people should be able to buy, sell, and use whatever they please. Your body, your money, your choice.

Of all the sex ads, what percentage of them do you honestly think are posted by independent providers versus pimps who hawk exploited women and girls? I personally don't know the answer because I've never used Craig's list for this purpose, but I'd guess that most are probably independent adult providers ... or vice officers looking for a collar. Yet the journalist sensationalizes things by playing-up the "helpless underage victims" card in order to outrage viewers. Where was the interview with an independent provider who would probably represent the majority of advertisers? Reports are supposed to be balanced. Hers was not.

Craig provides a service. I'm not going to fault the man for what others do with his product, any more than I would fault a gun manufacturer for producing a rifle that was ultimately used in a homicide. Perhaps Craig didn't have an answer for not purging underage ads because many, if not most of them, are posted by police departments in an attempt to ensnare scumbag pedophiles.

I've used Craig's List to sell a car and other items, and I've also used it to find items. So I know it's value and I never disputed that. I have never done business with any prostitute or escort through this website, though I have taken a long look to see what it's like there. We all know there is far far more to Craig's List than the erotic or adult element. But calling attention to the escorting, prostitution, or human trafficking element is hard sensationalizing it more than that element is inherently sensationalistic. It's there and everybody knows that, so there are no surprises for anyone. But bringing focus on the sex trade in Craig's List might get something positive done, and no matter how that is handled it will be inherently sensational and no reporter no matter how professional can avoid it being so.

In all honesty, whatever your view of the character of prostitution is, I find it extremely questionable that Craig would allow any link to the sex trade to be part of his website no matter how anyone uses it. Why is it necessary at all except as some very seedy publicity tactic to draw in more business. The very presence of the sex trade on the website is a sensationalistic magnet and in my opinion that's why Craig allows it.

As for your analogy, a machine gun or rifle obviously is not a human being and therefor this rationalization has no relevance. But it really doesn't matter what percentage of the sex trade ads are seedy or police traps. The fact is Craig allows this element to exist on his site. Does Ebay allow this? Not to my knowledge. So if the sex trade element can be blocked why isn't it? Any sensationalism lies within the nature of Craig's choices and the looks, mannerisms, or level of professionalism of a reporter had nothing to do with those choices.

I have to agree with Aeolus on this one. The majority of the ads on CL, if not 99.999 percent, do not involve Human trafficking. Human trafficking has to be very rare in the US or Canada. It involves keeping several women enslaved without the ability of escaping or calling for help. The only setup that could keep a woman from calling for help would be a brothel where the women would be kept captured 24/7 with people there at all times to ensure they would not leave. And these women would probably not know the local language either. These women could not be Escorts doing outcall. They could not be a single woman at an Incall apartment or hotel. And at a brothel type of establishment, it would take only one woman to call police to break up the entire operation.

Uh, NO! Instill real fear of retribution into someone who feels alone and/or has emotional and confidence issues, or create a physical or emotional dependency that creates the perception of a lack of options and a 24-hour watch and constrain system as you infer isn't necessary. Control can be imposed on people through various emotional, mental, or dependency issues who feel they have no other choices.

Reading some of these posts I wonder how many hobbyists have constructed neat "feel better" rationalizations to sooth their consciences by mentally cleaning up their ethical or moral misgivings with being in the hobby to make it feel like they are not assisting the the seedier side in the sex trade. Maybe many here just have no qualms at all about the hobby. But the idea that there are evil all-controlling sex trade boogey men and their slaves we can easily avoid is far more about rationalized convenience than reality.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[johnmbot]

As for your analogy, a machine gun or rifle obviously is not a human being and therefor this rationalization has no relevance.

yes it does. criagslist.org is not a human being either. "guns don't kill people. people do."..."craigslist.org doesn't cause human trafficking. humans do."

The fact is Craig allows this element to exist on his site. Does Ebay allow this? Not to my knowledge. So if the sex trade element can be blocked why isn't it?

now that is a poor analogy. companies are founded on different principles.

 

[SexyNadya]

Craig Newmart

Hello guy's !

Well I just did some research of my own. Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster told
Wallstreet analysts that Craigslist has little interest in maximizing profit which a lie .
Craigslist annual revenue since 2007 is ranging from $150 million to $250 million
dollars a year with a grand total of """ 32 employes """
Just how can 32 employees overlook their daily postings """ Its impossible ""

Remember four years ago the owners of Kijiji "" e.Bay "" withdrew their erotic section;
and since 2004 e.Bay is also a share older of Craisglist, they purchased a 25% stake
in the company .But in typical Newmart style of conducting business both parties
are in turmoil !!!!
From Wikipedia :
In April 2008, eBay announced it was suing Craigslist to "safeguard its four-year financial investment." eBay claimed that in January 2008, Craigslist executives took actions that "unfairly diluted eBay's economic interest by more than 10%." In response, Craigslist filed a countersuit against eBay in May 2008 "to remedy the substantial and ongoing harm to fair competition" that Craigslist claims is constituted by eBay's actions as Craigslist shareholders.

I like this interview !

 

[Doc Holliday]

I actually kind of like Amber Lyon. She's bright, she's cute....and she's correct.

 

[Merlot]

yes it does. criagslist.org is not a human being either. "guns don't kill people. people do."..."craigslist.org doesn't cause human trafficking. humans do."

Hello JMB,

Ish...I was referring to the fact that a gun (of any kind) is purely a soulless product...a commodity...a thing: unlike a human being. If you are saying the analogy between between a gun and a human being is relevant based on my reply then you are saying a person is purely a soulless product...a commodity...a thing that can be owned. I know you didn't mean that.... I also hope the standard issue NRA handbook reply was intended as a joke. Funny as usual.

Craig's List is being used to sell sex. No surprises here. But whether the owner intended it or not it's his responsibility to deal with it regardless of what anyone else does to display the situation.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[Aeolus]

If you are saying the analogy between between a gun and a human being is relevant...

Not that it matters because I don't come here to obsess over trivialities, but I was not comparing guns to people. I was comparing two products: the Craig's list advertising medium to guns to illustrate that both products can be misused by consumers. The point being that a manufacturer, whether its Craig or Colt, should not be held liable for how its products are misused.

Personal responsibility, it's a beautiful thing. If only there were more of it...

 

[johnmbot]

Craig's List is being used to sell sex... But whether the owner intended it or not it's his responsibility to deal with it regardless of what anyone else does to display the situation.

how liable are the phone companies for allowing phone scams, etc. to happen over the phone lines? how liable are isp's for allowing all the illegal shit to occur over their routers? i believe the courts have held them both harmless. that's not to say isp's don't do they best they can to thwart illegal activities via their tos agreements, but in reality it's not their responsibility. i see craigslist in the same light. merb, too.

keep in mind sex related boards (like merb) and those that allow 'sex commerce' to take place (like craigslist) are started by liberal minded people who are toeing the legal line in the sand. would you shut down merlotslist.org because a small percentage of users break the law? i doubt it. i would expect you, and i'm sure you would expect of yourself, to prevent the illegal activities as best you can. however, i won't attack you and blame you for all of the bad stuff that squeaks thru as if you're the root cause of it. if i did, i would expect merb to disallow all of the pimp run incalls & mp's from advertising, cuz, like, ain't that illegal in mtl? but since they don't use use words in their ads that admit illegal behavior to the point of self-incrimination, what can anyone do?

so far the courts have left law enforcement in the hands of law enforcement, not the gate keepers.

i found the cnn report to be an insult to professional journalism. it was nothing more than a fluff piece. is it sweeps week already?

 

[CaptRenault]

The founder of Craig's List can't even find an idea to defend himself for the sex trafficking on his website, which he pledged to keep out and is illegal in the U.S...Is that really more to the point than the gross exploitation of women and girls? You may have some sort of rosy vision of prostitution, but don't forget many of the "women" are not fully self-responsible adults making a free willing career choice here.

Merlot, what evidence is there, in that TV report or elsewhere, that the girls who advertise on Craigslist are more likely to be victims of "sex trafficking" than the girls that you (and the rest of us) have hired through Montreal escort agency Web sites. The phrase "sex trafficking," has evolved into a loaded term that is used as a synonym for prostitution by those who are completely opposed to it in any form. There simply are no reliable statistics about the true extent of "sex trafficking" on Craigslist or elsewhere. That report is a typical example of the superficial, poorly documented, sensationalistic coverage of prostitution that you see on local TV news shows all the time.

 

[Merlot]

Merlot, what evidence is there, in that TV report or elsewhere, that the girls who advertise on Craigslist are more likely to be victims of "sex trafficking" than the girls that you (and the rest of us) have hired through Montreal escort agency Web sites. The phrase "sex trafficking," has evolved into a loaded term that is used as a synonym for prostitution by those who are completely opposed to it in any form. There simply are no reliable statistics about the true extent of "sex trafficking" on Craigslist or elsewhere. That report is a typical example of the superficial, poorly documented, sensationalistic coverage of prostitution that you see on local TV news shows all the time.

Hello Capt,

Nice to see you posting.

Yes, very lucid and all good points. There's no premise in your post that I disagree with. But the sex trade under any label is a naturally sensationalistic subject. Sure the media goes after this subject as much for ratings as any possible compassionate alternative motive. Also, I am not disputing the possibilities you alluded to about the nature of our hobby. But that's not the point for me. What I see is a website owner still dodging the of selling sex on his site and still unable to provide any answers about gaining more control over the selling of sex of any kind long after he should have been able to provide some answers or have done something about what is going on. I guess what really bothers me is the double game I perceive of both pretending his website isn't promoting an illegal sex business, whatever kind, and using that interest to promote the attention to the legitimate businesses on his website.

As for the question of what kind of sexual business is going on, for about a week or so I saw the so-called "adult" posts on Craig's List and they are blatant in themselves. That's one thing. Then I sold some items myself and found how easy it is to sell anything there. It's easy to see that whatever level or kind of sex industry marketing is being done on Craig's List it is such an accessible vehicle to exploit for anyone with any motive. You can question how much of what is going on is really so-called "sex-trafficking", but it's clear that such an easy to use and accessible website makes the worst case scenarios so easy to accomplish. In view of that to see the owner looking like he is trying to dodge the whole sex trade issue and play his games of...well...eh...ummm...while profiting from really doing little or nothing about the seediest exploitation possibilities of his website is pretty disgusting. That's my basic issue with him.

Lastly, if someone knows he is going to be interviewed and has set up an "adult" section on his website then questions about that are perfectly legitimate no matter how amateurish or sensationalistic.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[hungry101]

When is CNN going to do a story about poor slobs like myself that are fleeced of every last dollar by by these fallen women who post these adds in the adult section of Craig's List?

 

[johnmbot]

h101, let's do the interview now and then sell it to cnn and whoever else wants to syndicate it. we'll use the proceeds to fund our perpetual hobbying. well shit, there's a 2nd story right there... "2 pervs sell story about hobbying in order to fund more hobbying", now we got 2 stories to sell. after we syndicate the 2nd story, that story becomes the 3rd... and so on. now we got a sex driven series on our hands. we could get at least 2 seasons out of fox or even hbo.

fuck, this journalism-in-to-tv-series shit is too easy.