En passant Lefebvre n'est qu'un bouc émissaire....ses joueurs en majorité ont joué pour les Habs...n'avait pas grand chose sous la main...de plus le Rocket n'a pas participé aux séries ces dernières années....un de ses adjoints Nick Carrière , le fils de Larry,lui n'a pas été congédié....peut-être lui qui va être le prochain entraîneur-chef.....c'est comme ca qu'on se passe la rondelle dans cette grande organisation.
Go Habs Go!
- Thread starter talkinghead
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J'ai compris qu'ils choisiraient qqun de plus près de Claude Julien. Je pense que des assistants comme JJ Dagneault sont dans l'eau chaude aussi.
Dominique Ducharme serait un bon choix pour remplacer Lefebvre.....a une belle crédibilité....pourrait se faire la main et se préparer à remplacer Julien MAIS sont mieux de faire vite car d'autres équipes de la NHL sont sûrement aussi intéressées.
Pascal Vincent serait un autre bon candidat comme entraineur à Laval. Le Canadien pourrait peut être même se payer les deux.
One thing is clear, Lefebvre's firing was long overdue. I just hope that he isn't simply a scapegoat for all of the organisation's woes. He was only part of a much bigger hockey development and scouting problem (both amateur and professional).
One thing is clear, Lefebvre's firing was long overdue. I just hope that he isn't simply a scapegoat for all of the organisation's woes. He was only part of a much bigger hockey development and scouting problem (both amateur and professional).
Many of the names suggested to become the next Laval coach are very popular and well respected major junior hockey coaches. They are well paid for the most part & many top junior coaches have a lot of power within their organization and several also act as their respective team's general manager.
Many of those coaches don't exactly see coaching a farm team as a promotion. Many actually see it as a demotion. Some may see it as a stepping-stone towards NHL employment, but as many major junior hockey coaches (and in college hockey) get appointed to NHL coaching positions as minor league coaches do. A minor league coach also doesn't enjoy the power that a major junior or college hockey coach would. Personnel decisions in the minors are often dictated by the big-league team they're affiliated to.
Therefore i'm predicting that the next Laval coach will be someone from within the organization or already in the minors. Most top-notch junior hockey coaching talent will refuse the job.
Many of those coaches don't exactly see coaching a farm team as a promotion. Many actually see it as a demotion. Some may see it as a stepping-stone towards NHL employment, but as many major junior hockey coaches (and in college hockey) get appointed to NHL coaching positions as minor league coaches do. A minor league coach also doesn't enjoy the power that a major junior or college hockey coach would. Personnel decisions in the minors are often dictated by the big-league team they're affiliated to.
Therefore i'm predicting that the next Laval coach will be someone from within the organization or already in the minors. Most top-notch junior hockey coaching talent will refuse the job.
Fair points, Doc. However, Ducharme already mentioned that he wants to "go pro" and I believe Vincent already coaches in the AHL. Vincent could be lured away from his current organisation with more money and the promise of a position with the big club down the road.
Pascal Vincent is currently the head coach of the AHL's Manitoba Moose. They are the Winnipeg Jets' top farm team.
So why would he leave a successful organization such as the Jets/Moose in order to join a losing organization such as the Canadiens/Rocket and basically have the same job? It makes no sense! He also would likely have less of a chance to become the habs head coach within the next couple of years due to Claude Julien's big multiyear contract that he signed a year or so ago. The habs are literally stuck with Julien for the next couple of years or so. However in Winnipeg you never know depending on how they'll perform next year or so.
I also doubt the Jets would agree to grant Vincent permission to join a rival organization for basically the same job. This usually doesn't get done in professional hockey unless it's a promotion and the coach is without a contract.
I'd also like to add that Sylvain Lefebvre was literally set up to fail as the Laval coach. How could he win without any talent on that team? He was stuck coaching with the players the organization gave him and did the best he could. Even Sheldon Keefe would have had a hard time winning with such a no-talent team. The real culprit is Trevor Timmins who has failed to provide quality players (and develop them) to the organization. You can't have a winning organization without talent.
Doc, you're right, Vincent would most likely not leave his current organisation, unless:
1. The habs offered him way more money than he's currently earning and that Vincent was swayed by that
2. Vincent always wanted to work for the habs organisation
3. Vincent (perhaps correctly) determined that a coaching change at the NHL level will happen in Mtl sooner than in Winnipeg and that being in this org would give him the inside track as Julien's eventual replacement.
As for Lefebvre, he failed to develop players, when given a team of young players and also failed to win games when given many veteran and proven AHLers. Some players actually regressed under Lefebvre. Recently, Stephane Lebeau, who coached with Lefebvre, commented that they had a major philosophical disagreement on where the modern pro game was headed. Lefebvre advocated for old style hockey with defensive defensemen, while Lebeau favoured a faster pace, with more speed on the back end. We all know who was correct in their assessment.
Timmins on the other hand was crippled by the team constantly trading away picks. Sure he has some misses, but so do most other scouts. Also, it seems that certain GMs don't heed his advice. Recently, Timmins explained how he was forced to pick Louis Leblanc, while he actually would have chosen Chris Kreider. He also wanted John Carlsson the year before that, but Gainey traded the habs' first rounder that year to get Alex Tanguay. Here's the link: http://blogues.lapresse.ca/lnh/2017/11/06/trevor-timmins-revait-a-john-carlson/
What has most plagued the habs, imho, is there atrocious choice of GMs, from Houle to Gainey to Gauthier to Bergevin with a brief respite of competence in Andre Savard. The asset management by those four GMs have wrecked the franchise and alienated fans.
1. The habs offered him way more money than he's currently earning and that Vincent was swayed by that
2. Vincent always wanted to work for the habs organisation
3. Vincent (perhaps correctly) determined that a coaching change at the NHL level will happen in Mtl sooner than in Winnipeg and that being in this org would give him the inside track as Julien's eventual replacement.
As for Lefebvre, he failed to develop players, when given a team of young players and also failed to win games when given many veteran and proven AHLers. Some players actually regressed under Lefebvre. Recently, Stephane Lebeau, who coached with Lefebvre, commented that they had a major philosophical disagreement on where the modern pro game was headed. Lefebvre advocated for old style hockey with defensive defensemen, while Lebeau favoured a faster pace, with more speed on the back end. We all know who was correct in their assessment.
Timmins on the other hand was crippled by the team constantly trading away picks. Sure he has some misses, but so do most other scouts. Also, it seems that certain GMs don't heed his advice. Recently, Timmins explained how he was forced to pick Louis Leblanc, while he actually would have chosen Chris Kreider. He also wanted John Carlsson the year before that, but Gainey traded the habs' first rounder that year to get Alex Tanguay. Here's the link: http://blogues.lapresse.ca/lnh/2017/11/06/trevor-timmins-revait-a-john-carlson/
What has most plagued the habs, imho, is there atrocious choice of GMs, from Houle to Gainey to Gauthier to Bergevin with a brief respite of competence in Andre Savard. The asset management by those four GMs have wrecked the franchise and alienated fans.
Isn't Pascal Vincent still under contract with the Moose? If so why would they let him walk to join a rival team?
Vincent may have indeed wanted to work for the habs organization as he grew up. But this one??? It's a circus!!! Who in his right mind would want to leave a good job in a comfortable and stable environment for the one currently in Montreal?
I doubt a coaching change will occur faster in Montreal than in Winnipeg. Paul Maurice was already on the bubble after last season and only the success of this season saved his job. In Montreal Claude Julien is one of the highest paid coaches in the NHL and his current contract expires something like 4 years from now. I also believe the team is still paying former coach Michel Therrien. So i doubt you'll see a coaching change happening soon.
It is true that Lebeau had a different philosophy than Lefebvre. But Lefebvre's philosophy was no different than Michel Therrien's or Claude Julien's. Organizations often will employ minor league coaches which have a similar philosophy as the NHL team's coaching philosophy in order to have both teams playing a similar brand of hockey for the sake of team development and make it easier for players to be implemented into the NHL team's system whenever a player gets called up (and vice-versa).
You can defend Trevor Timmins all you want but every single NHL team faces the same problems he has and every NHL team does trade their draft picks once in a while. So the fact the team traded some of their draft picks to other teams is no excuse since it's a normal occurence in the NHL. Look at Boston right now: they traded a first-round pick and one of their top young players to the Rangers in order to obtain Rick Nash and Nash hasn't delivered the goods and he'll likely test free agency once the season ends. Shit happens.
And Timmins saying that it wasn't his choice to select Louis Leblanc and wanted to draft John Carlson. Well again many teams experience this but maybe if Timmins was better in his job or better regarded by his superiors maybe his advice would count more. For example i can't see the Leafs' brass overruling Mark Hunter on player personnel/scouting decisions. It's actually fairly well-known that Mark Hunter has carte blanche on draft day and the likes of Lou Lamoriello & Kyle Dubas let Hunter make the selections.
And finally i think it's ridiculous that the Laval coach has to be a french-speaking person. Same thing with the habs coach. Same thing with the GM. Honestly what is the main reason why Marc Bergevin got the GM job? It's because he speaks french. Claude Julien? He speaks french. Sylvain Lefebvre? He speaks french. Michel Therrien? Speaks french. Pierre Gauthier? Speaks french. Bob Gainey? Speaks french. And on and on and on.
Those silly outdated unofficial team philosophies are the real reason why the Habs and their crummy farm team are among the lousiest teams in their respective sport. And unless they wake up & start to modernize their organizational philosophy things will continue looking bleaker and bleaker.
Vincent may have indeed wanted to work for the habs organization as he grew up. But this one??? It's a circus!!! Who in his right mind would want to leave a good job in a comfortable and stable environment for the one currently in Montreal?
I doubt a coaching change will occur faster in Montreal than in Winnipeg. Paul Maurice was already on the bubble after last season and only the success of this season saved his job. In Montreal Claude Julien is one of the highest paid coaches in the NHL and his current contract expires something like 4 years from now. I also believe the team is still paying former coach Michel Therrien. So i doubt you'll see a coaching change happening soon.
It is true that Lebeau had a different philosophy than Lefebvre. But Lefebvre's philosophy was no different than Michel Therrien's or Claude Julien's. Organizations often will employ minor league coaches which have a similar philosophy as the NHL team's coaching philosophy in order to have both teams playing a similar brand of hockey for the sake of team development and make it easier for players to be implemented into the NHL team's system whenever a player gets called up (and vice-versa).
You can defend Trevor Timmins all you want but every single NHL team faces the same problems he has and every NHL team does trade their draft picks once in a while. So the fact the team traded some of their draft picks to other teams is no excuse since it's a normal occurence in the NHL. Look at Boston right now: they traded a first-round pick and one of their top young players to the Rangers in order to obtain Rick Nash and Nash hasn't delivered the goods and he'll likely test free agency once the season ends. Shit happens.
And Timmins saying that it wasn't his choice to select Louis Leblanc and wanted to draft John Carlson. Well again many teams experience this but maybe if Timmins was better in his job or better regarded by his superiors maybe his advice would count more. For example i can't see the Leafs' brass overruling Mark Hunter on player personnel/scouting decisions. It's actually fairly well-known that Mark Hunter has carte blanche on draft day and the likes of Lou Lamoriello & Kyle Dubas let Hunter make the selections.
And finally i think it's ridiculous that the Laval coach has to be a french-speaking person. Same thing with the habs coach. Same thing with the GM. Honestly what is the main reason why Marc Bergevin got the GM job? It's because he speaks french. Claude Julien? He speaks french. Sylvain Lefebvre? He speaks french. Michel Therrien? Speaks french. Pierre Gauthier? Speaks french. Bob Gainey? Speaks french. And on and on and on.
Those silly outdated unofficial team philosophies are the real reason why the Habs and their crummy farm team are among the lousiest teams in their respective sport. And unless they wake up & start to modernize their organizational philosophy things will continue looking bleaker and bleaker.
Paul Maurice and Claude Julien are both veteran NHL coaches who have shown themselves to be winners when given proper talent to work with. Maurice has won 648 NHL games and has a career winning record. Julien has won 583 NHL games and has a nifty .592 career winning percentage. Give them talent and they will win. Maurice now has the best talent he has ever had at Winnipeg, it’s young talent and he may win a Stanley Cup. Julien on the hand has been handed dogshit and lemons and has been asked to make lemonade. If you put dogshit and lemons in a blender, mix it and see what happens. I doubt you will be able to make a tasty lemonade.
Dominique Ducharme will join the Habs as an assistant coach next year! Jonathan Drouin did quite when Drouin played for him in the QMJHL. Lacroix and Daigneault will not return.
Now we need Pascal Vincent or maybe Joel Bouchard to coach our AHL team in Laval. Btw, in answer to Doc: Vincent would join the Habs in a lateral move because of the opportunity/challenge. Most organisations don't stand in the way of an employee who wants to leave for another job. While usually these moves are for promotions, it does occur for lateral moves as well. Would an organisation want to keep a coach who wanted to leave (and risk having an unhappy coach).
As for the, "silly outdated unofficial team philosophies" (mentioned by Doc) that plague the Habs, I agree, with exception to the language issue. I understand the need for Francophone Quebeckers to have players and a coach that they can relate to and who can speak French. Although this limits the talent-pool, it still seems to be a requirement for many Habs fans in Quebec. The team has been successful with this constraint in the past and can continue to move past it.
Now we need Pascal Vincent or maybe Joel Bouchard to coach our AHL team in Laval. Btw, in answer to Doc: Vincent would join the Habs in a lateral move because of the opportunity/challenge. Most organisations don't stand in the way of an employee who wants to leave for another job. While usually these moves are for promotions, it does occur for lateral moves as well. Would an organisation want to keep a coach who wanted to leave (and risk having an unhappy coach).
As for the, "silly outdated unofficial team philosophies" (mentioned by Doc) that plague the Habs, I agree, with exception to the language issue. I understand the need for Francophone Quebeckers to have players and a coach that they can relate to and who can speak French. Although this limits the talent-pool, it still seems to be a requirement for many Habs fans in Quebec. The team has been successful with this constraint in the past and can continue to move past it.
Oz-Man,
This is 2018 and name one other professional sports team anywhere that in any way exercises preferences in selection of players or coaches or staff based on language, ethnicity or race? The answer is none that care about winning. Although there has been much made in recent years about a lack of black players in Major League Baseball and a lack of blacks in coaching and front office positions in the NFL, those leagues have quietly taken steps to address those issues. In the case of Major League Baseball, it at one time had a much higher % of African American participants, but the % has decreased for two reasons, (1) inaccessibility of inner city youths to quality youth development programs, and (2) the dramatic rise in the quality of youth development programs in the Caribbean and Central and South America. Nothing can be done about (2)- the Hispanic athlete has become a dynamic force in baseball and is here to stay, but MLB has addressed (1).
Montreal is too cosmopolitan a city to get bogged down with these silly agendas that run contrary to the spirit of any business to hire the best available talent. It’s simply not a winning outlook when you remove any talented worker from consideration for employment due to his language or ethnicity.
Branch Rickey was the first person to make this statement in baseball and as a result the Dodgers were one of the most successful franchises in MLB in the 1950s and 1960s, exceeded only by the NY Yankees in that era. Montreal has gone in the other direction and they need their own Branch Rickey to stop this nonsense.
This is 2018 and name one other professional sports team anywhere that in any way exercises preferences in selection of players or coaches or staff based on language, ethnicity or race? The answer is none that care about winning. Although there has been much made in recent years about a lack of black players in Major League Baseball and a lack of blacks in coaching and front office positions in the NFL, those leagues have quietly taken steps to address those issues. In the case of Major League Baseball, it at one time had a much higher % of African American participants, but the % has decreased for two reasons, (1) inaccessibility of inner city youths to quality youth development programs, and (2) the dramatic rise in the quality of youth development programs in the Caribbean and Central and South America. Nothing can be done about (2)- the Hispanic athlete has become a dynamic force in baseball and is here to stay, but MLB has addressed (1).
Montreal is too cosmopolitan a city to get bogged down with these silly agendas that run contrary to the spirit of any business to hire the best available talent. It’s simply not a winning outlook when you remove any talented worker from consideration for employment due to his language or ethnicity.
Branch Rickey was the first person to make this statement in baseball and as a result the Dodgers were one of the most successful franchises in MLB in the 1950s and 1960s, exceeded only by the NY Yankees in that era. Montreal has gone in the other direction and they need their own Branch Rickey to stop this nonsense.
Habs Can Assistant Coaches
Firing assistant coaches always looks like a blame shifting move. Or else addition by subtraction. But really can anyone tell me why these 2 deserved to be fired as opposed to anyone else in the organization?
https://es.pn/2JxdkXJ
Firing assistant coaches always looks like a blame shifting move. Or else addition by subtraction. But really can anyone tell me why these 2 deserved to be fired as opposed to anyone else in the organization?
https://es.pn/2JxdkXJ
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