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Hockey Canada sex assault scandal

CaptRenault

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Both sides (prosecution and defense) have finished questioning the complainant, "E.M." The trial has moved on to other witnesses, starting with Tyler Steenbergen, a teammate who was in the room part of the time when the sexual encounters took place but he did not participate and he was not charged.

According to the CBC's report of Wednesday's trial proceedings:

Steenbergan says he, Dubé and Bean [other team members] went to McLeod’s room and saw teammates Sam Steele, Carter Hart, Max Comtois, Drake Batherson, Brett Howden, Alex Formenton and McLeod.

Steenbergen says that when he went to sit down at the desk at the far side of the room, he heard someone say, “Guys, there’s a naked girl in the bathroom.”

He testifies he was shocked to learn that. Soon after, he says, a naked woman came out of the bathroom.

“She went onto the floor and started masturbating and asked guys to come have sex with her,” Steenbergen says. “She said, ‘Can one of you guys come over and f–k me?’”

That’s when Hart got oral sex from her, Steenbergen says, and it lasted for about 30 seconds or a minute.

“He unbuckled his belt and pulled [his pants] down toward his knees.”

Steenbergen says that while this was happening, he was trying to have a conversation with someone else, so wasn’t paying much attention.

After that, Steenbergen says, he remembers the woman saying, “You guys are being pussies” and then he remembers McLeod “getting a blow job” in a similar manner to Hart.

Witnesses like Steenbergen and others are the wild card in this trial. They could make a big difference in a case that is basically a "She said, he (they) said" case. So far, Steenbergen's testimony favors the defense.

Here's an article from the London Ontario Free Press about today's trial proceedings:

 
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Doc Holliday

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Thank you for posting this. I read an account of Wednesday’s proceedings in the Athletic & it only mentionned Steenburgen & the familiar players. Bean, Steele, Comtois, Batherson & Howden’s names had been left out of that article. Geez! Were Cale Makar, Cale Clague, Dante Fabbro & Connor Timmims the only ones on that team who weren’t there? By the way i agree that Steenburgen’s testimony seems to have helped the defence.
 
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Flabert

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I think reporters already have 2 stories ready to print

If they are found innnocent "System fails abuse victim once again"
if they are found guilty: "Rape culture in hockey confirmed"

I wonder if she tried to get another round of compensation from Hockey Canada (was she not the one who got paid millions of dollars)?

Biggest victims here are actual victims of sex abuse.
 

Doc Holliday

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I think reporters already have 2 stories ready to print

If they are found innnocent "System fails abuse victim once again"
if they are found guilty: "Rape culture in hockey confirmed"

I wonder if she tried to get another round of compensation from Hockey Canada (was she not the one who got paid millions of dollars)?

Biggest victims here are actual victims of sex abuse.
I agree. By the way she said yesterday that she didn’t ask for the London Police to re-open the case last year. That they made this decisions on their own. She added that in her 2022 civil settlement with Hockey Canada she had been under the impression that the players names in the settlememt wouldn’t be made public.

Today i was thinking about this case & wondered how it would appear if the shoe was on the other foot & the roles reversed. Let’s imagine if a guy who goes out to a popular pub with his friends. Let’s pretend it’s in Montreal & the pub is called Hurley’s. The guy notices a good looking woman & asks her to dance & after the dance he tells her follow me to the bar i’m gonna by you a drink! At the bar the girl introduces you to one of her girlfriends who’s also gorgeous. You strike up a conversation & you eventually end up on the dance floor & the rest of her friends join you guys & some of them take turns dancing with you. You can’t believe your luck & enjoy the attention they give you! You then come on to your new target & kiss her. She seems to enjoy it & you then grab her crutch to see how she reacts. She doesn’t seem to mind. As time goes on you’re both enjoying yourselves & you all take turns doing shooters & dancing together. Then your buddies wonder if they should come & rescue you from the girl they saw you with earlier & you say no way i like this girl! I’m having fun! Thanks anyway! Later they text you again since they have trouble locating you since they haven’t seen you in a while & tell you that they’re leaving & are wondering if you want to leave with them & they’ll give you a ride home. “No way! I’m having a great time here! Take care, guys!”

By that time you have a pretty strong feeling that the girl you met whom you’ve been spending most of the time with is a sure bet & that you’ll likely leave with her to have sex with her. You no longer care that much that you’ll be screwing around on your current girlfriend. The girl you just met is hot as hell & her friends are a lot of fun! Party, party, party! Later you leave Hurley’s together & you go to the hotel she & her friends are staying at. Let’s call it the Vogue. You make your way to her room on the second floor & have great sex! Then when you’re done you tell her that she should invite her friends since you’re in a mood to have sex with any of them of they’re interested! “What? Are you kidding or are you being serious?”, she asks you. “I’m fucking serious! I want to fuck them all! Invite them over! Let’s have some fun!” So she texts her friends & tells them that if any of them are interested in having a threesome to come by her room on the second floor!” Alrighty then! I’m gonna go to the bathroom to clean up before they arrive! Get the place ready while i get ready!”

By then several of the girls have texted back that they were interested & would be on their way. She ordered some food already & it’s gonna be wild! Then while your cleaning up in the bathroom you overhear female voices from people entering the room. “ “Omg this is gonma be wild!” So you decide to surprise them when you come out of the bathroom by walking out nude with a huge hard-on which shocks them when they see you! “Howdy ladies! Remember me?” You notice that one of them already laid a blanket on the floor in the middle of the room so you lie down on the blanket & start masturbating in front of the group. “Now who wants to get fucked? Come on i wanna fuck someone! Let’s go, don’t be shy come & join me! I want to get fucked! Come on you chicken shits, let’s fuck!” Most of the ladies there don’t seem to be too interested in getting fucked so i’m starting to winder why they bothered to show up! There i am totally nude with my big hard-on in front of everyone & it seems none of them want to get fucked! “Come on! Do you want to get fucked or go play volleyball instead? Let’s fuck!” Finally one of them girls comes up to me, pulls up her skirt & takes her panties off. She offers me her pussy & i start to eat it. Then about 30 secomds later she pulls away & another girl does the same thing & let’s me eat her pussy. While i’m eating another girl who’s name is Dillon sneaks up behind me & slaps my ass! The about thirty seconds later the girl who’s pussy i was eating pulls away & puts her panties back on. Then one of the girls who’s also a gymnast lifts up her skirt & while i’m lying down she does the splits on top of my face while showing me her pussy. All i could see was her pussy! The other girls i. The room seemed to enjoy that gymnastic stunt. Lol. Then the girl i left the bar with whom i’ll call Michelle walks up towards me & offers me her pussy. So i eat her pussy again for about a minute & then she also pulls away. But i’m not satisfied. I want to fuck in front of them! “Come on, someone come lie down with me! I want to fuck one someone!” Then one of the girls calmly tells me not to make a big deal about it since it’s not personal. It’s just that some of the girls here have boyfriends so that’s why they don’t want to partake. I don’t care. I tell them if they don’t want to fuck i’m gonna leave! Then one of the girls whom i hadn’t met earlier & whom i later found out was Michelle’s roomate tells me she’ll fuck me but not in front of everyone. Although she had a bit of acne & was the youngest one of the girls there i still found her cute. I later foumd out that her name was Alexandra but by then i didn’t really care who i was fucking because i was horny while living out my pornstar fantasy & finally someone had volunteered to let me fuck her! So we decide to go together in the bathroom & by then people started to leave the room. While in the bathroom she turns around & positions herself onto the counter & says that it’s my choice if i want to wear a condom. She says she’s on the pill & i then fuck her while standing behind her while she’s holding onto the counter.

When we were done she went to bed while Michelle asked me if i felt like taking a shower with her. Then once in the shower we had sex again & this time i didn’t wear a condom. What a night! Then after she told me that she had to go to bed since she had to be up early in the morning because she had to attend a volleyball tournament. It was obvious that she wanted me to leave & i felt like a third wheel! I wasn’t totally pleased since i would have preferred to stay over. She didn’t even want to call me a Uber! What a bitch! And her roomate Alexandra who also had fucked me earlier was already snoring in the next bed & they were acting like i didn’t even exist! Oh well! So i got dressed, called my Uber & left these bitches! Lol. The next day i felt tired & hungover. I started feeling bad about what happened. I felt bad i cheated on my girlfriend, who’s a nice girl. What if she finds out? She’ll dump me! But i love this girl & she loves me! Let’s see…i’ll confess the next i see her. I’ll tell her everything since there were a lot of people at Hurley’s last night & she’ll likely hear about it anyway. Better she hears about it from me first. At least she’ll get to hear my version first. That i drank way too much & got seduced by some girl at the bar whom i ended up having sex with, which i instantly regretted! And when i was about to leave she had invited without my knowledge all her friends who surprised me by telling me i wasn’t leaving until i had sex with them! I’ll tell her that i found it so humiliating! That i really had no choice in the matter & they weren’t taking no for an answer! They wouldn’t allow me to leave! I’ll tell my girlfriend whom i’m hoping to marry one day that i have already spoken to my mother about it & she wants me to go to the cops & ask them to press charges against these sick women who forced me into having sex with them against my will! Of course they have a video of me saying that i’m having a great time & was consenting to everything but i’ll say that i was coerced into doing this & that imwas much drunker than i claimed in the video. I’ll say that i had sex with them because i feared for my life & by playing the role of a pornstar i pretended that i was willing to participate in a gangbang with a bunch of these woman in that hotel room! I’m a victim! I was sexually assaulted by these perverted women! They violated my body & i did not & could not consent because i was too drunk! Yep, that’ll work!

Get the picture? Lol
 
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CaptRenault

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...Let’s imagine if a guy who goes out to a popular pub with his friends. Let’s pretend it’s in Montreal & the pub is called Hurley’s. The guy notices a good looking woman & asks her to dance & after the dance he tells her follow me to the bar i’m gonna by you a drink! At the bar the girl introduces you to one of her girlfriends who’s also gorgeous....

By that time you have a pretty strong feeling that the girl you met whom you’ve been spending most of the time with is a sure bet & that you’ll likely leave with her to have sex with her. You no longer care that much that you’ll be screwing around on your current girlfriend. The girl you just met is hot as hell & her friends are a lot of fun! Party, party, party! Later you leave Hurley’s together & you go to the hotel she & her friends are staying at. Let’s call it the Vogue. You make your way to her room on the second floor & have great sex! Then when you’re done you tell her that she should invite her friends since you’re in a mood to have sex with any of them of they’re interested! “What? Are you kidding or are you being serious?”, she asks you. “I’m fucking serious! I want to fuck them all! Invite them over! Let’s have some fun!” So she texts her friends & tells them that if any of them are interested in having a threesome to come by her room on the second floor!” Alrighty then! I’m gonna go to the bathroom to clean up before they arrive! Get the place ready while i get ready!”

...By then several of the girls have texted back that they were interested & would be on their way. She ordered some food already & it’s gonna be wild! Then while your cleaning up in the bathroom you overhear female voices from people entering the room. “ “Omg this is gonma be wild!” So you decide to surprise them when you come out of the bathroom by walking out nude with a huge hard-on which shocks them when they see you! “Howdy ladies! Remember me?” You notice that one of them already laid a blanket on the floor in the middle of the room so you lie down on the blanket & start masturbating in front of the group....

...When we were done she went to bed while Michelle asked me if i felt like taking a shower with her. Then once in the shower we had sex again & this time i didn’t wear a condom. What a night!
That happened to me once! I told my mom about it and she reported me to the police. Since I'm a guy and my "victims" were all girls, I was charged, convicted and sent to jail for five years. Boy, I sure learned my lesson! :D
 
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Doc Holliday

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EagerBeaver

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Wow I have never heard of a jury being discharged by a Judge who then decides the case. In the USA there is usually a constitutional right to a jury even in a civil case if it is timely claimed and a fee is paid ($450). It's a state constitutional right. I realize the law is different in Canada but it seems kind of weird that a judge would take a case away from a jury unless she thought elements of the crime charged couldn't be met as a matter of law. In the USA there is a procedure for doing this but it's done by way of a motion for a directed verdict whereby the Judge directs the jury to enter a verdict for the defendant. This is done in civil cases somewhat routinely.

I can only speculate as to a different procedure in Canada whereby instead of the Judge directing a jury to enter a verdict for the defendants she does so herself.

It sounds to me like good news for the defendants.
 
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CaptRenault

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Both the Crown and the defense agreed to the judge’s decision. If either side had disagreed then the trial probably would have continued with a jury.

It’s obviously a good decision for the defense. All the testimony so far favors the defense. This trial will end soon with a well deserved not guilty verdict for the defendants.
 

CaptRenault

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This trial is developing into a fiasco and an embarrassment for the court, the jury and the prosecution. The judge needs to move the trial along and then take about 3 minutes to issue a NOT Guilty verdict.

As I stated at the beginning, this is a case with political overtones. The charges were made in an atmosphere of hysteria about Hockey Canada's 2022 financial settlement with the complainant. After politicians, the media and some members of the public caused an uproar, the police "reopened" the case that they had already investigated in 2018 when they found insufficient evidence to bring charges.

Since the trial is proceeding with no jury and the verdict is up to the judge alone, the press can reveal more details about some aspects of the trial, including why the judge dismissed the jury-basically because some female member of the jury became paranoid that the defense lawyers were making fun of her attire. :rolleyes:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/world-junior-hockey-trial-what-jury-did-not-hear-1.7536599

...The latest courtroom turn of events happened Thursday, when a note was sent to the judge by a juror in the trial that got underway in late April. The note outlined concerns that Dan Brown and Hilary Dudding, lawyers representing Formenton, appeared "every day" to be whispering to each other and laughing "as if they are discussing our [jurors'] appearance" as they entered the courtroom.

"This is unprofessional and unacceptable," the note said.

After speaking, all five defence teams asked for a mistrial or for the jury to be discharged and the case to proceed with just a judge. The lawyers cited perceived "prejudice" that the jurors might have against the defence and the "chilling effect" on those lawyers, who were worried to "zealously" defend their clients lest their gestures be misinterpreted by the jury.

Assistant Crown attorney Meaghan Cunningham argued that jurors could be asked if they could set aside any impressions they may have formed of the defence lawyers and given instructions reminding them to only consider the evidence before them, and to put out of their minds any negative ideas about Brown and Dudding.

Carroccia ruled Friday, after taking the evening to consider the options, that the trial would proceed with her oversight alone.

Because Carroccia let the jury go, the publication ban on anything heard without the jury present has now lifted, so we are able to report more of what happened since proceedings began and a jury was chosen in late April.

Lawyers for Formenton issue statement

Although both the Crown and defence agreed to the jury's discharge and for the judge-only proceedings, the decision drew swift reaction from lawyers for Formenton.

"We are not in the habit of making public statements during a trial, and this is likely to be the only time we do so in this case," said a letter sent from Brown to the media on behalf of his client's legal team.

The letter said discharging the jury "was a regrettable development" for Formenton, and noted, "He had very much wanted to be tried by a jury of his peers and has now lost that opportunity.

"We, his counsel, found ourselves involved in the unusual chain of events that led to this outcome."

It went on to give background on what led to the judge's move Friday.

"In short, a juror came to somehow believe that our courtroom demeanour was disrespectful of her. This was a [sic] unfortunate misinterpretation. No defence counsel would risk alienating a juror, and nothing could be further from the truth in this instance. … The very idea of counsel making light of a juror is illogical and runs directly counter to our purpose and function," the letter said.

"In a larger sense, perceptions and appearances play a central role in this trial, particularly, appearances that have been captured on videotape and perceptions about courtroom testimony," the letter adds. "If a single juror were prone to leap to unwarranted conclusions — and potentially impress these erroneous conclusions on their fellow jurors — the ends of justice and the right to a fair trial would be jeopardized.

"Accordingly, we will now be going forward with a trial by judge alone. We have every confidence that our trial judge will ensure a full and fair proceeding."...
 

Doc Holliday

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Wow I have never heard of a jury being discharged by a Judge who then decides the case. In the USA there is usually a constitutional right to a jury even in a civil case if it is timely claimed and a fee is paid ($450). It's a state constitutional right. I realize the law is different in Canada but it seems kind of weird that a judge would take a case away from a jury unless she thought elements of the crime charged couldn't be met as a matter of law. In the USA there is a procedure for doing this but it's done by way of a motion for a directed verdict whereby the Judge directs the jury to enter a verdict for the defendant. This is done in civil cases somewhat routinely.

I can only speculate as to a different procedure in Canada whereby instead of the Judge directing a jury to enter a verdict for the defendants she does so herself.

It sounds to me like good news for the defendants.
I had never heard of this either. Initially i thought not being judged by a jury of their peers would be bad news for the defendants however after discussing the case with a former policeman who now practices law he told me i had it the other way around & that having the case in front of a judge instead of a jury actually helps the defendants. He added that the judge isn’t a dummy & can see right through the plaintiff’s lies & would rule 100% in favor of the defendants. When asked why of them would get off he replied “all 5 of them! The prosecution’s case is very weak & this never should have even been brought to trial had the media not got word that Hockey Canada had reached a prior settlement with the the plaintiff!” He then showed me a video from last year when the London police chief held a public news conference announcing that the case had been re-opened & announced charges of sexual assault had been filed against Carter Hart, Michael Mcloud, Dillion Dube, Alex Formenton & Cal Foote. It’s rather obvious from wathing the press conference which side he’s on & later probably realizing maybe that he spoke too much he made sure to point out that the public should be reminded that the five accused are innocent until proven guilty. “What a dumbass!”, said my source. “Right away he potentially tainted the upcoming jury pool by letting his personal feelings known!”

By the way it was the defence’s turn to question Alex Steenburgen today & his testimony was a boost to the defence. He made it seem like it was E.M. who was the ring leader in that room that night.

Also: When the judge announced that she had discharged the jury & spent the previous evening trying to figure how to proceed all the lawyers for the 5 defendants requested either another mistrial or that the judge take over for the jury. That they couldn’t proceed with the possibility of a tainted jury. The prosecution in return had suggested interviewing each remaining juror individually & replace the one who had complained with one on standby. The defence & the judge didn’t think it would guarantee a fair trial somwe learned today it’s now a trial which will proceed without a jury & all parties agreed to go with the judge’s decision.
 

EagerBeaver

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the judge dismissed the jury-basically because some female member of the jury became paranoid that the defense lawyers were making fun of her attire. :rolleyes:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/world-junior-hockey-trial-what-jury-did-not-hear-1.7536599
I am not sure why that juror wasn't excused and an alternate allowed to take her place, unless she shared her paranoia with the other jurors.

The Judge may have given the Crown and the defense a choice of mistrial or proceed before me as trier of fact. If in fact that choice is allowed in Canada, because I think such a conversation may have been had in chambers here. If I were the Crown I would have resisted this because it seemed like the jury was self-tampered with in favor of the Crown.

The jury self-tampering element is the most interesting thing I have heard so far and in most cases this would result in a mistrial. But in a case like this with much time and money invested on both sides I can see how a choice would have been in order.
 
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EagerBeaver

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By the way have you guys ever had a chance to pick a jury? It's a really fascinating because you get to ask personal and intimate questions about how a total stranger thinks. After introducing myself to a prospective juror, I typically start by apologizing. I usually start by saying something like, "I apologize for the questions I am about to ask. It's part of my job and part of the process of seeing if you are able to serve as a juror in this case. These are not the things we would be talking about if I met you at a party or in some private social setting." Only then do I proceed. I then explain that the questions are not meant to needlessly pry into their personal views, but simply evaluate whether they would be appropriate jurors to hear that particular case.

Establishing a rapport with the jurors you select is very important and if the defense attorneys didn't do that with the woman in question, it doesn't reflect well on them. It WILL be noted by the firms who employ the defense attorneys in question.

If the woman was a kook, she shouldn't have been picked. Although CR noted there are no peremptory challenges. Which means "kooks are allowed."
 
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Doc Holliday

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I got a hard-on as I heard the details of her behaviour that night :p
That’s why it wouldn’t entirely surprise me if she wasn’t a sex worker a the time. Drunk or not it seems that she was a little too comfortable with nudity & performing sex acts in the open. Who knows maybe that’s why her boyfriend never dumped her. Maybe he was used to sharing his gf with strangers. The thing is about this case is that i could very easily imagine myself being caught up in a similar scenario like some of the players have. Personally i think it’s very unfair for people to refer to them as scumbags or assholes for being caught up in this type of scenario. We don’t live in a perfect world & no one is perfect. Same thing with E.M. In my opinion there’s nothing wrong with testing your sexual boundaries & trying different experiences if & when an opportunity comes up.
 

EagerBeaver

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ESPN is reporting more details about the jury dismissal. The allegation is that two defense attorneys, who have now been identified, laughed at jurors as they entered the Courtroom:
It should be noted that the Judge stuck up for the attorneys and said she didn't observe any unprofessional conduct. That's something she had to say, however, to cover her own ass, as she has a duty to maintain professional decorum in her courtroom. Meaning attorneys have to be told to respect the court, witnesses and jurors when necessary. My guess is if the alleged misbehavior happened when the jurors were coming into the Court, the Judge may have missed it.

This is something that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen. Even if the jurors were wrong and the two attorneys were actually laughing at a private joke having nothing to do with the jurors, that cannot happen either!!! I remember being specifically trained by my mentor about behavior and etiquette in front of a jury. You have to look and appear and behave professional at all times. Organization is paramount as well. If a jury sees you fumbling around in your file looking for something, they will assume you are disorganized. I was also cautioned about body language and this really falls into that category. The defense attorneys should never ever be perceived as treating any aspect of the trial as a joke.

There are different theories on excessive use of objections. One attorney I know told me he almost never objected to questions because the jury would think he was trying to hide something from them.

During trials I have watched juries and their reaction to testimony. One trial I knew was over when I saw how they reacted to my medical expert witness. They were mesmerized. I could see it in their faces. The defense attorney in that trial later admitted to me that he over cross examined that expert on the notion that he was a quack based on the deposition summary he received from his young associate who deposed the expert. The man was no quack. He was the best medical expert testifier I have ever seen. He was an ER doctor and an expert in emergency medical treatment.
 
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hankiepankie

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The idea that a defence attorney would laugh at jurors or otherwise antagonize them is ridiculous on its face. I can't imagine this is anything else than a neurotic juror that got overwhelmed by the importance of this trial and that never should have been put in that position to begin with.
 

CaptRenault

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This video provides a good overview of how this case became politicized after the settlement was revealed.

 
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Doc Holliday

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Take a look at these losers. They would be more useful & productive to society if they got a job & lept themselves busy instead of wasting everyone’s time & looking ridiculous! They’re not helping actual victims of sexual assault!
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