I've also been to Venezuela. Loved it. Loved the people. I wouldn't go as far as calling it the most dangerous country in South America. Several other countries including Brazil would get my vote.
Be careful what you wish for.
Hugo Chavez R.I.P. (1954-2013)
- Thread starter Doc Holliday
- Start date
I've also been to Venezuela. Loved it. Loved the people. I wouldn't go as far as calling it the most dangerous country in South America. Several other countries including Brazil would get my vote.
Be careful what you wish for.
Surely a ridiculous proposition, GWB not democratically elected. Chavez tried to implement a system that has failed society over and over and over again. He rigged the voting system in his favor using oil money to bolster his campaign. He supported terrorism, look up FARC.
I beg to differ, you are implying that poor people are poor because they do not want to work, that is a load of crap and typical right wing ignorance, people are poor because of lack of opportunity, and to imply that people are poor in a third world country because they are lazy is even a bigger load of crap, just my two cents on the subject.
Hello Wallseye,
So not possibly knowing where you learned your information Doc says it's "American right-wing propaganda machine". Talk about poisoning the well with a totally uninformed presumption..
Well, we're still waiting for any specifics on why Chavez should be considered...hmmm...Great? Aside from spreading the oil money profits there's nothing else from Doc except a Wiki link he chose that contains as much that cites the negatives of Chavez as well as the positives. If Chavez is truly Great then that has nothing to do with using comparisons with the U.S. or any other country to excuse abuses or bad choices as was done in post number 8. A great man/woman can stand on their own by their ideas, courage, and accomplishments.
From the reading of late, it seems whatever Chavez accomplished was achieved by cutting off dissent with force and seizing control of the government system and economy with self-sustaining checks and balances. So what's his model for the future? Strongman dictatorship. As far as I've read it seems he failed to establish a government system that would put checks on dictatorial abuses, and failed to establish an economic system that would be self-sustaining on it's own.
I have nothing against Chavez resenting and opposing U.S. politics. I commend him for trying to keep Venezuela free of U.S. impositions. I also give Chavez credit for overall improvements. But his governing methods model is one that encourages dictatorial abuses, and some of the international political associations he chose probably did more to stifle more progress than help the country. He doesn't seem a whole lot different than a Juan Peron and that ilk in basic methodology.
I guess any country needs a heroic icon as a symbol of greatness. I don't know a whole lot about Venezuela specifically, but if Chavez is it there must have been a significant void otherwise.
Grade on his "Greatness": C- ( being generous). That's besides the fact he's simply not in a class of Greatness in a positive sense.
Depends what you mean. Doing it just for the sake of doing it achieves nothing. Establishing a level playing field where everyone has relatively the same opportunity and equal responsibility is quite different.
Cheers,
Merlot
Joe....slack tes shorts.... if you fail to understand what I wrote....then its your problem.
I never implied that the poor are lazy....what I wrote was when you take from the rich to give to the poor.. you remove the incentive to work from both groups.
Capiche?
Hello Cloudsurf,
I didn't think you would be playing Joe.t by presuming "level playing field" meant playing Robin Hood. It must be an emotional reaction. You're far too smart to make that mistake otherwise. Besides, I did specifically say the two things were..."quite different".
I'm a bit surprised you seem to have missed that. Maybe your "date" tired you a bit.
It must have been GRRRRREAT!!!. It must be we're all getting older. In the old days you would have taken on half a dozen NFL Cheerleaders and still read my post exactly. :nod:
Cheers Cloudy,
Merlot
I didn't think you would be playing Joe.t by presuming "level playing field" meant playing Robin Hood. It must be an emotional reaction. You're far too smart to make that mistake otherwise. Besides, I did specifically say the two things were..."quite different".
I'm a bit surprised you seem to have missed that. Maybe your "date" tired you a bit.
It must have been GRRRRREAT!!!. It must be we're all getting older. In the old days you would have taken on half a dozen NFL Cheerleaders and still read my post exactly. :nod:Cheers Cloudy,
Merlot
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Fuck Chavez that piece of shit.
He was an enemy of the US and people who love freedom all over the world.
Venezuela is sitting on the biggest oil reserve on the planet. And a civilized country like the USA needs to get control of it or else we will all be fucked.
I can't believe some people here thought he was a nice guy who loved his people.
This bastard made his whole country die of hunger to keep control of the oil.
He was an enemy of the US and people who love freedom all over the world.
Venezuela is sitting on the biggest oil reserve on the planet. And a civilized country like the USA needs to get control of it or else we will all be fucked.
I can't believe some people here thought he was a nice guy who loved his people.
This bastard made his whole country die of hunger to keep control of the oil.
And dropping bombs (via drones) on civilians isn't a form of terrorism?? Invading & destroying a foreign country isn't a form of terrorism? Technically speaking, our respective countries all support a form of terrorism one way or another.
Chavez: Another CIA assasination victim?
CIA Banksters elite assassins:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/06/292131/was-hugo-chavez-murdered-by-the-cia/
Am I 100% certain that the CIA killed Hugo Chavez? Absolutely not.
It could have been non-governmental assassins working for the bankers.
But any way you slice it, the masters of the US empire are undoubtedly responsible for giving Chavez and other Latin American leaders cancer. How do we know that? Just examine the Empire’s track record.
Fidel Castro’s bodyguard, Fabian Escalante, estimates that the CIA attempted to kill the Cuban president an astonishing 638 times. The CIA’s methods included exploding cigars, biological warfare agents painted on Castro’s diving suit, deadly pills, toxic bacteria in coffee, an exploding speaker’s podium, snipers, poison-wielding female friends, and explosive underwater sea shells.
The CIA’s assassination attempts against Castro were like a Tom and Jerry cartoon, with the CIA as the murderously inept cat, and the Cuban president as a clever and very lucky mouse. Some might even argue that Castro’s survival, in the face of 638 assassination attempts by the world’s greatest power, is evidence that El Presidente’s communist atheism was incorrect, and that God, or at least a guardian angel, must have been watching over “Infidel Castro” all along.
Theology aside, the CIA’s endless attempts on Castro’s life provide ample evidence that US authorities will stop at nothing in their efforts to murder their Latin American enemies.
John Perkins, in his bestselling book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, supplies more evidence that the bankers that own the US government routinely murder heads of state, using private assassins as well as CIA killers.
Perkins, during his career as an “economic hit man,” gained first-hand knowledge about how the big international bankers maintain their empire in Latin America and elsewhere. Perkins’ job was to visit leaders of foreign countries and convince them to accept loans that could never be paid back. Why? The bankers want to force these nations into debt slavery. When the country goes bankrupt, the bankers seize the nation’s natural resources and establish complete control over its government and economy.
Perkins would meet with a targeted nation’s leader and say: “I have a fist-full of hundred dollar bills in one hand, and a bullet in the other. Which do you want?” If the leader accepted the loans, thereby enslaving his country, he got the payoff. If he angrily chased Perkins out of his office, the bankers would call in the “asteroids” to assassinate the uncooperative head of state.
The “asteroids” are the world’s most expensive and accomplished professional killers. They work on contract - sometimes to the CIA, sometimes to the bankers, and sometimes to wealthy private individuals. And though their specialty is causing plane crashes, they are capable of killing people, including heads of state, in any number of ways.
This isn’t just speculation. John Perkins actually knows some of these CIA-linked professional killers personally. And he has testified about their murders of Latin American leaders. Confessions of an Economic Hit Man is dedicated to Perkins’ murdered friends Gen. Torrijos of Panama and President Jaime Roldos of Ecuador. Both were killed by CIA-linked “asteroids” in engineered plane crashes.
Do CIA-linked killers sometimes induce cancer in their victims? Apparently they do. One notable victim: Jack Ruby (née Jack Rubenstein), a mobster who was himself a professional killer, and whose last hit was the choreographed murder of JFK-assassination patsy Lee Harvey Oswald in the basement of the Dallas Police Department. Ruby begged to be taken to Washington to tell the real story of the JFK murder, but instead died in prison, of a sudden and mysterious cancer, before he could reveal what he knew.
CIA Banksters elite assassins:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/06/292131/was-hugo-chavez-murdered-by-the-cia/
Am I 100% certain that the CIA killed Hugo Chavez? Absolutely not.
It could have been non-governmental assassins working for the bankers.
But any way you slice it, the masters of the US empire are undoubtedly responsible for giving Chavez and other Latin American leaders cancer. How do we know that? Just examine the Empire’s track record.
Fidel Castro’s bodyguard, Fabian Escalante, estimates that the CIA attempted to kill the Cuban president an astonishing 638 times. The CIA’s methods included exploding cigars, biological warfare agents painted on Castro’s diving suit, deadly pills, toxic bacteria in coffee, an exploding speaker’s podium, snipers, poison-wielding female friends, and explosive underwater sea shells.
The CIA’s assassination attempts against Castro were like a Tom and Jerry cartoon, with the CIA as the murderously inept cat, and the Cuban president as a clever and very lucky mouse. Some might even argue that Castro’s survival, in the face of 638 assassination attempts by the world’s greatest power, is evidence that El Presidente’s communist atheism was incorrect, and that God, or at least a guardian angel, must have been watching over “Infidel Castro” all along.
Theology aside, the CIA’s endless attempts on Castro’s life provide ample evidence that US authorities will stop at nothing in their efforts to murder their Latin American enemies.
John Perkins, in his bestselling book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, supplies more evidence that the bankers that own the US government routinely murder heads of state, using private assassins as well as CIA killers.
Perkins, during his career as an “economic hit man,” gained first-hand knowledge about how the big international bankers maintain their empire in Latin America and elsewhere. Perkins’ job was to visit leaders of foreign countries and convince them to accept loans that could never be paid back. Why? The bankers want to force these nations into debt slavery. When the country goes bankrupt, the bankers seize the nation’s natural resources and establish complete control over its government and economy.
Perkins would meet with a targeted nation’s leader and say: “I have a fist-full of hundred dollar bills in one hand, and a bullet in the other. Which do you want?” If the leader accepted the loans, thereby enslaving his country, he got the payoff. If he angrily chased Perkins out of his office, the bankers would call in the “asteroids” to assassinate the uncooperative head of state.
The “asteroids” are the world’s most expensive and accomplished professional killers. They work on contract - sometimes to the CIA, sometimes to the bankers, and sometimes to wealthy private individuals. And though their specialty is causing plane crashes, they are capable of killing people, including heads of state, in any number of ways.
This isn’t just speculation. John Perkins actually knows some of these CIA-linked professional killers personally. And he has testified about their murders of Latin American leaders. Confessions of an Economic Hit Man is dedicated to Perkins’ murdered friends Gen. Torrijos of Panama and President Jaime Roldos of Ecuador. Both were killed by CIA-linked “asteroids” in engineered plane crashes.
Do CIA-linked killers sometimes induce cancer in their victims? Apparently they do. One notable victim: Jack Ruby (née Jack Rubenstein), a mobster who was himself a professional killer, and whose last hit was the choreographed murder of JFK-assassination patsy Lee Harvey Oswald in the basement of the Dallas Police Department. Ruby begged to be taken to Washington to tell the real story of the JFK murder, but instead died in prison, of a sudden and mysterious cancer, before he could reveal what he knew.
I don't know if the $2 billion amount floating around is reliable in any way, but it's pretty clear that Chavez managed to amass quite a large personal fortune, in the high millions if not in the billions of dollars, through his presidency.
You people are just rubes. I mean, seriously, you're just simple marks. Some guy says he's for the little guy, spends money that isn't his on the little guy (and some of it sticking to his own hands in the process...), wrecks his country's economy (and in the process, disenfranchising the people who built those businesses and some of those businesses sticking to his hands...), says bad things about countries that you may not like... and he's a hero.
No wonder pro wrestling is so popular up here. You are all custom-made marks. You think wrestling is real, too, don't you?
You people are just rubes. I mean, seriously, you're just simple marks. Some guy says he's for the little guy, spends money that isn't his on the little guy (and some of it sticking to his own hands in the process...), wrecks his country's economy (and in the process, disenfranchising the people who built those businesses and some of those businesses sticking to his hands...), says bad things about countries that you may not like... and he's a hero.
No wonder pro wrestling is so popular up here. You are all custom-made marks. You think wrestling is real, too, don't you?
No lol but trust me. We are better of with the USA running the world economy rather than Venezuela. lol
Doc, joe.t, RobinX and other oblivious pinko`s
Here is lowdown on your hero Chavez.
He is an egomaniac and a bully who worshiped Fidel, Mao, Lenin, Bolivar, Musolini.
His friends were Saddam, Quaddafi and the idiot and murderous leaders of Iran.
Instead of spending his country`s wealth on health, education and job building....he stole it to bribe the poor for votes while he lined his own pockets with millions of stolen money. Venezuela is now an economic mess and the poor will be in worst condition than when he took power.
This countefit of a leader is your hero because self hating "humanatarians" like Penn and Stone tell you that he was a saint. Bullshit!
Here is lowdown on your hero Chavez.
He is an egomaniac and a bully who worshiped Fidel, Mao, Lenin, Bolivar, Musolini.
His friends were Saddam, Quaddafi and the idiot and murderous leaders of Iran.
Instead of spending his country`s wealth on health, education and job building....he stole it to bribe the poor for votes while he lined his own pockets with millions of stolen money. Venezuela is now an economic mess and the poor will be in worst condition than when he took power.
This countefit of a leader is your hero because self hating "humanatarians" like Penn and Stone tell you that he was a saint. Bullshit!
So i guess you're saying that most world leaders, including Obama & Harper, are dictators.
What's wrong with worshipping Castro, Mao, Lenin, Bolivar & Mussolini? I believe they all did good things for their countrymen once they respectively got control of their countries. Was Cuba really better off before Castro when it was literally run by a corrupt king (who was also a dictator) who slept with the mafia? Many Canadians & Europeans flock to Cuba every winter.....aren't they somehow worshipping Castro & his communist government by giving him their money by travelling there? As for Mussolini, he did very good things for Italy before he entered WWII.
As for Saddam Hussein & Ghadaffi, they were once also allies of the United States. Same with the murderous thug the Shah of Iran, who was nothing but a puppet of the United States government before he was overthrown by the Iranian people who had enough of his iron-fisted dictatorial rule.
If you really want to expose a true dictatorship, point your finger at Saudi Arabia, who just the other day beheaded 7 men on bogus charges for robberly. They just recently imprisoned for 10 years two very well-known civil rights activists. Why do they get away with this barbaristic behaviour? Because the Saudi Royals are nothing but puppets of the United States government.
As for the 'spending his country's wealth on health, education & job building', the same criticism could be hurled at the United States. Bush bankrupted the US economy by starting the Iraq & Afghanistan wars. These wars' costs were astronomical (and they're still financing the Afghan one) and put the country into an economic whirlwind. And yes, the poor (and middle class) people of the United States got poorer and poorer over the past 10 years or so.
Basically, what i'm saying is that Hugo Chavez is not that much different from the very same people who run our own countries. Actually, i consider him a saint as compared to some of them. Long live Hugo Chavez!!!
America has supported some of the worst dictators in history, which one is the worst?, take your pick -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtj1uqXqKok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtj1uqXqKok
Do you include Stalin and Hitler in that group? Why not they all ordered the murder from tens of thousands to millions of people?
You see Doc, people like you glorify, Communism, which is nothing but forced tyranny to attempt to achieve an achievable Utopia. Except the only people who live in Utopia in the Utopia State is the head Utopians, or head of the parties.
Remember what was said in Animal Farm: Everyone is equal, except some are more equal than others.
Hugo Chavez was a punk Dictator, who stole property from people who did nothing to him. People who praise Chavez are dishonest.
