I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. Psychedelics are good for you.

[Madmanacross]

No, that is your silly misinterpretation. You are again directed to read the lyrics. They talk about affirmative action by the subject, not acquiescent action. Do I need to read it to you as a book is read to a child before bedtime?

Let's all take a zen attitude here :hippie:
or may be we should all share a pipe together and get high :smile:

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

whatever condition Barrett may have had, his extensive use of drugs did not help.

100% correct...and that is what the song is about.

Do you suck this much in a court of law? You, yourself agreed "100% correct" with madmanacross' take above. You're getting in deeper, Beav.

I'd claim to have good bullshit radar, but it doesn't take a pro to see through the lame shit you're tossing here.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

or may be we should all share a pipe together and get high :smile:

Personally, I'd prefer a pile of 'shrooms. Not only are they good for you, as the article referred to in post 1 above, but they significantly improve one's appreciation of The Firesign Theatre.

 

[Madmanacross]

Personally, I'd prefer a pile of 'shrooms. Not only are they good for you, as the article referred to in post 1 above, but they significantly improve one's appreciation of The Firesign Theatre.

Yes, I personally think shrooms are the best; very similar experience to LSD, qualitatively, but shorter in time and almost no risks of bad tripping... I really enjoyed shrooms when I was in my twenties... Well, those were the days, and I don't regret a thing. Still... water, cardio and sex make me feel better than drugs, now that I am almost 50 !!!

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

very similar experience to LSD, qualitatively, but shorter in time and almost no risks of bad tripping...

Certainly more visual, less cerebral and less intense. It's been over 30 years for me, but as I enter the second half of my 60s, I'm thinking of taking them up again. I don't know that I'd take acid again and if I did, I'd want to know that the chemist knew what he/she was doing. 'Shrooms are the likely way to go. 'Shrooms and Surrealistic Pillow by the Airplane.

Still, water, cardio and sex make me feel better now that I am almost 50 !!!

You haven't lived until you've had sex with a headful.

 

[Madmanacross]

Certainly more visual, less cerebral and less intense. It's been over 30 years for me, but as I enter the second half of my 60s, I'm thinking of taking them up again. I don't know that I'd take acid again and if I did, I'd want to know that the chemist knew what he/she was doing. 'Shrooms are the likely way to go. 'Shrooms and Surrealistic Pillow by the Airplane.


You haven't lived until you've had sex with a headful.

I would probably like to try mushrooms again, it is a great and safe experience (in the "hendrixian" sense of the word..). LSD ? Not sure, for the same reasons you're referring to.

 

[Merlot]

Inconclusive at best

uh huh,

When much younger, I gobbled psychedelics like they were candy. In all honesty, I credit my still youthful outlook on life to the (thoroughly non-clinical) use of all the psychedelics listed above, including peyote despite it's awful taste. It's been over 30 years, but I'm now giving serious thought to taking another stroll through the doors of perception.

This reminds me of the guy who smokes for 50 years and says look at me I'm fine. It does nothing to refute the millions who died of causes directly from smoking.

Sez who? Says medical science. This 'shroom's for you, Harry Anslinger.

Why are you referring to a guy who died in 1975 and was a fierce anti-drug crusader. Was the reference to Anslinger sarcasm. It doesn't look it.

Dr. Krebs said. "In particular, mental illness is rather common, and symptoms often appear in the early 20s, which is the same time that people often first use psychedelics."

If you read this line you provided in the report it points to the difficulty of making any connection, good or bad, to psychedelics and mental health.

"We cannot exclude the possibility that use of psychedelics might have a negative effect on mental health for some individuals or groups, perhaps counterbalanced at a population level by a positive effect on mental health in others," the authors note. Nevertheless, "recent clinical trials have also failed to find any evidence of any lasting harmful effects of psychedelics."

The article also suggests harmful effects on mental health, but once again the point is lack of proof either way.

"Although there is evidence suggesting beneficial effects of psychedelics in well-controlled clinical research, that does not address the occurrence of psychiatric adverse effects in the population. It is very interesting to know that these drugs are not associated with adverse mental health outcomes at the population level," Dr. Johnson said.

"However, as the authors note, it is certainly possible that individual recreational users experience harms. This analysis would just suggest that this may be limited in scope, and possibly offset by some individuals also receiving benefit at the population level," he added.

More of the same warnings of harm and the inconclusive nature of the evidence.

http://www.livescience.com/39026-psychedelic-drugs-mental-health-problems.html

At first, the results showed that mental health problems were more common among people who had used psychedelic drugs. But then the researchers accounted for a number of factors that could affect the results, such as age, gender and participants' experience with any extremely stressful life event, which can affect the risk of mental health problems. With those factors accounted for, the researchers found that people who had used psychedelics were no more likely to develop mental health problems than those who hadn't used the drugs.

So according to this article the study saying psychedelics don't do harm edited out a laundry list of many factors to remove as much negative effect ass possible and still were only able to conclude psychedelics don't do harm or good. Basically the study is practically an inconclusive wash.

The link at the bottom of your post http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0063972 has this:

Conclusion

We did not find use of psychedelics to be an independent risk factor for mental health problems.

It's a statement that absolves psychedelics of mental health damage, but says nothing about the immediate risk of functioning under their influence.

No one can claim conclusively psychedelics are either good or harmful based on this study, even if there are as many or more positive views as bad.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[Madmanacross]

There has been a resurgence of interest for the use of psychedelic agents in psychiatry over the past ten years. Different research protocols have been developed for various conditions. LSD and MDMA (which is often seen as a psychedelic substance despite its molecular resemblance to amphetamines) are presently being explored as potential treatment facilitators for PTSD (post traumatic stress disorders). In recent years, interesting results have been obtained with people battling incapacitating physical conditions or facing terminal illnesses. In those cases, it appears that LSD and MDMA can facilitate emotional adaptation.

Now, I wouldn't wanna see those substances used with people suffering from schizophrenia or type I bipolar disorder with psychotic symptoms... Why ? Well... Do I really need to answer this ? I think it goes without saying : If you are psychotic or predisposed to psychosis, psychedelic agents and amphetamines are the last substances you need to take, they will essentially trigger or exacerbate your delusions and your hallucinations.

This is my humble contribution to this thread, but, heck, what do I know ? I'm just a mental health professional with 25 years of practice :lol:

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Thanks, MMA. It's nice to see an article confirm what I've known personally for decades, as I've long held that my once frequent trips through the doors of perception (to use the Huxley phrase again) had significant long term positive effect. Of course, as you might imagine, I consumed them primarily for fun; the enlightenment was merely a side-effect.

Why are you referring to a guy who died in 1975 and was a fierce anti-drug crusader. Was the reference to Anslinger sarcasm. It doesn't look it.

Duh. BTW, I've also heard, though it's not confirmed, that psychedelics will aid in the relaxation of the sphincter muscles.

By the way, Merlot, why do you repeatedly make a statement and then quote an article that directly refutes what you've said? You wouldn't have been tripping when you wrote your post, now, were you?

 

[Merlot]

By the way, Merlot, why do you repeatedly make a statement and then quote an article that directly refutes what you've said? You wouldn't have been tripping when you wrote your post, now, were you?

Rumps,

I'm tripping? I give you back your own quote:

When much younger, I gobbled psychedelics like they were candy.

... that psychedelics will aid in the relaxation of the sphincter muscles. You wouldn't have been tripping when you wrote your post, now, were you?

I didn't insult you at all in my previous post, I made honest comments respectfully. If your first choice is to get nasty by referring to sphincter muscles and tripping... it doesn't speak well for the effects of psychedelics when the first impulse a long time user is to be insulting instead of responding civilly.

You've said nothing, except you disagree, insults included. I posted what was written honestly, looking at the information given, dealing with all of it. The study has a lot of points that say psychedelics do no permanent harm and a lot of other points that say they can. I looked at both sides while you charged in with this study seeing only one side, the side that fits your previous view. No one can take an honest look at this study and honestly say it says psychedelics are wonderful.

I credit my still youthful outlook on life to the (thoroughly non-clinical) use of all the psychedelics listed above

Could you explain this? We all know you are an avid bike rider, as you have said. You've been doing this for years and belong to a club. Why wouldn't you give some credit to the exercise and the fitness that comes with it to a "youthful outlook?

As scientific studies go we all know or should know one study is rarely conclusive no matter how decisive it is toward one direction, and in this one the researchers admit that when using psychedelics it is "certainly possible that individual recreational users experience harms" and that "psychedelics might have a negative effect on mental health for some individuals or groups". This study is INCONCLUSIVE. Even if it wasn't, true and honest scientists would caution that years further studies to confirm their findings would be necessary for proof.

Who is Dr. Teri S. Krebs anyway? There are studies by scientists that purport to prove marijuana helps eye sight, though many other scientists say proof is very thin and uncertain, while still more scientists and studies say not so at all. Maybe Dr. Krebs knows what she is doing, but it's one study...sometimes with conflicting conclusions. Leaping at this study as proof of anything is WISHFUL.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[gugu]

This study is INCONCLUSIVE.

The study is not conclusive in regards with rumple's hypothesis that psychedelics are good for you. But it is conclusive on the study hypothesis that there is no link between lifetime use and current mental health of adults. From a falsification perspective, it debunks the myth of such link, generally based on anecdotal evidence. It is yet an other study, but based on a very large sample, that arrives at the same conclusion as those obtained in other clinical trials.

From my experience with San Pedro during a field trip in Peru, I must admit that taken in very high dose it was very certainly an initiatic voyage, a defining moment, very positive as far as I am concerned. Things were never quite the same after as before. In that sense I agree with rumple: it can be sensed as "good for you". But that is not a mental health issue.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I didn't insult you at all in my previous post, I made honest comments respectfully. If your first choice is to get nasty by referring to sphincter muscles and tripping...

Where, Merlot, in my post did I make any suggestion that my reference to sphincter muscles was directed toward any particular individual? Among the things that psychedelics did for me when younger was to teach me not to take myself too seriously. As we all know, life goes on within you and without you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljnv3KGtcyI

There's a time and place for everything, and sensory exploration is best kept for special occasions.

True, but in a life well lived, every day is a special occasion. That's another thing that psychedelics have enabled me to embrace. There was a time when I, a long suffering young poet back when, did take myself way too seriously; I won't do that again. (Let me be a bit less glib here. I was always very careful with psychedelics and treated them with great respect. I never ingested when there was shit hanging over my head that might come down on me in mid-peak.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE

 

[Madmanacross]

Ultimately, with drugs in general and pretty much every experience you make, there's a lot of variability in terms of reactions from one individual to another, and it doesn't depend solely on your preprogrammed genetic psychodynamic. To quote Aldous Huxley :

Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you.

 

[Joe Pistone]

That is like saying that a drink a day is good for your heart, until you find out that it has destroyed your liver.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

That is like saying that a drink a day is good for your heart, until you find out that it has destroyed your liver.

A glass of red wine per day is indeed good for the heart, Joe. And a glass of wine per day will never destroy your liver.

 

[Madmanacross]

A glass of red wine per day is indeed good for the heart, Joe. And a glass of wine per day will never destroy your liver.

Brilliantly said, rumple
Moderation is always key when it comes to using substances