Indonesian Couple Caned In Public

[EagerBeaver]

This news report contains some rather brutal photographs of an Indonesian woman being caned in public- viewer discretion is advised. Her crime: she, an unmarried woman, was seen alone with an unmarried man. He was also caned:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-married-Indonesian-region-s-sharia-law.html

I don't know much about Sharia law (didn't study it in law school), but it seems a bit harsh for the offense. I can see (maybe) a few lashes for adultery, but 5 lashes that sends her to a hospital for being alone with a dude? Seems excessive to me. Of course, I went to a strict Catholic School that was not above dishing out physical punishment either. I observed my classmates have their asses spanked with a wooden oar in front of the class, and that was just for misbehaving in class. I was at one time hit by one of the priests with a bamboo pole, not very hard and not to really hurt me, but more to get my attention, when I dozed off in his class.

What do you think of these forms of public punishment? Cruel? Unusual?

 

[johnybird]

It always amazes me and infuriates me at the same time how unevolved some cultures still are. Also the fact that there are sometimes thousands of people there to witness it and some even participate, is down right scary.

Caning for being in 'close proximity' of an unmarried man? Really?

There have also been stories about:
Stoned to death for just being Gay
Beheadings for witchcraft (yes for witchcraft)

And this one just boggles my mind more than anything:, just makes my blood boil
(excerpt from an online article)

13-year-old girl-child, was gang-raped. She went to register the crime with the courts, presumably expecting the police to find and arrest her rapists.

This last bit came back to haunt her, her family, and anyone with a conscience! At this ‘admission of engaging in extramarital sexual intercourse’ and ‘demands to be punished’, the police officials had ‘no choice’ but to arrest her. The ‘Sharia Court’ (if you can call it a court) had heard the case and had ‘no choice’ but to sentence her to death by stoning. After all, she herself ‘freely admitted her guilt’ and ‘demanded justice to be done’!!!

You got me all worked up on a late Tuesday evening EB.

 

[Sky_rocket]

A few years back, a man in my country got decapitated and thrown into the sewers. His fault? Dating a muslim woman while being a non-muslim. The killers were relatives of the girl. My gf at the time was a muslim. You can imagine how freaked out my family was around the time.

 

[Sara Cleavage]

This punishment is stupid. Christian societies learned how to depart from religion. Unfortunately, Muslims and Jews are still slaves to their old beliefs. Call me a pessimistic girl, but I don t think that this situation is going to change any time soon.

 

[EagerBeaver]

A friend of mine who lives in New York City started dating a Muslim girl. They eventually got engaged and even while they were engaged, she denied him vaginal intercourse, but allowed anal intercourse. Her reasoning/rationale in allowing premarital anal intercourse was that as long as the vagina wasn't touched, her virginity was preserved for marriage. We all thought this was funny and wondered where in Muslim law it says premarital anal sex is okay and preserves virginity. Does anyone know?

My friend did marry that girl and they are still married, although she kicked him out for about a month when she found evidence of him cheating Tiger Woods's wife-style, by peeking at his cellphone. Eventually they made up and are now back together.

 

[Sky_rocket]

Did your friend convert to islam to marry his gf? I was constantly reminded that we could never have a serious relationship(Engagement, marriage) unless I convert.

 

[EagerBeaver]

No- he didn't convert. He is a Christian guy with roots in the US Deep South. Keep in mind this is a Russian Muslim girl from Brooklyn that he met in NYC. My friend is a NYC hedge fund guy and the girl, when he met her, was an off the boat Russian girl. Off the boat Russian girls coming to NYC and finding themselves in a relationship with a hedge fund guy normally don't make such demands. If she had made the religious conversion demand, he would have found a way to negotiate it. For all I know, he negotiated the anal sex, but he claims she consented to it and considered it an act that keeps her virginity intact. This was the first time I ever heard such reasoning.

 

[hungry101]

It always amazes me and infuriates me at the same time how unevolved some cultures still are. Also the fact that there are sometimes thousands of people there to witness it and some even participate, is down right scary.

Caning for being in 'close proximity' of an unmarried man? Really?

There have also been stories about:
Stoned to death for just being Gay
[/I]

.

These are not stories. I have seen men thrown off of buildings for being gay on video. The girl is lucky she wasn't stoned to death. This is the religion of peace that the left marvels at and celebrates while turning a hostile eye toward Christianity (Note# I find it ironic that a guy is photographed with the battle flag of Lee's army of Northern Virginia on his T-shirt and kills 7 people and the flag is removed from all public buildings and shunned. Now they are removing monuments to dead Confederate Generals in public places like New Orleans. Meanwhile, we have murder after murder in the name of Islam - the so-called peaceful religion - and the left reminds us that not all Muslims are terrorists and blame global warming.)

I have not been to church in years and I don't really know what I believe in. I am a skeptic. It's all a crock! However, I prefer religions whos followers are not constantly trying to kill me in the name of that religion. I am hoping that one day the followers of Islam will become like the Catholics I knew growing up. They went to church for 1 hour on Sunday and that was it. Many skipped Church and grabbed a church bulleton for their parents and went out to breakfast. Can Islam become more like this? I believe that the breakfast part could be tough because so many dishes involve pork but maybe they can all do lunch?

Sara - I believe the majority of Jews in Isreal are secular. I'm sure this is true in the US as well.

 

[rollingstone]

This news report contains some rather brutal photographs of an Indonesian woman being caned in public- viewer discretion is advised. Her crime: she, an unmarried woman, was seen alone with an unmarried man. He was also caned:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-married-Indonesian-region-s-sharia-law.html

I don't know much about Sharia law (didn't study it in law school), but it seems a bit harsh for the offense. I can see (maybe) a few lashes for adultery, but 5 lashes that sends her to a hospital for being alone with a dude? Seems excessive to me. Of course, I went to a strict Catholic School that was not above dishing out physical punishment either. I observed my classmates have their asses spanked with a wooden oar in front of the class, and that was just for misbehaving in class. I was at one time hit by one of the priests with a bamboo pole, not very hard and not to really hurt me, but more to get my attention, when I dozed off in his class.

What do you think of these forms of public punishment? Cruel? Unusual?

I have lived in many countries and regions that claim to practice sharia law. Interpretation of this form of jurisprudence differs from one country to another. Usually 4 witnesses are required to have seen intercourse between the two parties(usually impossible to establish). However, people not familiar with this requirement are sometimes tricked into a confession, which can supersede the 4 witness requirement. Forensic data of adultery cannot be used to convict someone, but can theoretically be used to dispute the witnesses (and have them caned instead). Being alone in a room or seen close together is not enough. But I have never lived in Indonesia so I cannot speak as to why they were convicted here.

The common thread is that these punishments all originated in the desert. Resources and water were scarce, so every form of punishment is either corporal or capital. The notion of 'jail time' does not exist because scarce resources could not be used to house and feed inmates. I would also point out that what Sharia means and whether its relevant to our age is a not something there is universal agreement on among muslims.

 

[EagerBeaver]

This punishment is stupid. Christian societies learned how to depart from religion. Unfortunately, Muslims and Jews are still slaves to their old beliefs. Call me a pessimistic girl, but I don t think that this situation is going to change any time soon.

Sara, Israel is the only country in the Middle East in which there is a separation of Church/Mosque/Temple and state. As hungry101 said most of the Jews in Israel are secular but Jews, Muslims and Christians all practice their religions freely and without interference from the State. There is, to be sure, a small crackpot Orthodox Jewish right in Israel, but they are primarily religious extremists and do not dole out these kinds of punishments. However there are some elements of Talmudic law that are sexist/archaic and seem unreasonable but not usually in regards to punishment.

 

[hungry101]

The common thread is that these punishments all originated in the desert. Resources and water were scarce, so every form of punishment is either corporal or capital. The notion of 'jail time' does not exist because scarce resources could not be used to house and feed inmates. I would also point out that what Sharia means and whether its relevant to our age is a not something there is universal agreement on among muslims.

Interesting and it helps make my point. The religion needs a reformation. They are no longer nomadic tribes wandering through the desert. If they could only be more like modern day Catholics who skip mass but sneak in to grab a church bulleton as proof that they were there to placater their parents. However, that would require 35 bulletons a week instead of 1.

 

[PopeDover]

Israel is the only country in the Middle East in which there is a separation of Church/Mosque/Temple and state.

and yet if you're Jewish and oppose the policies of the political state...
http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/from-albert-einstein-to-noam-chomsky-famous-jews-who-have-opposed-israel

you're somehow labeled as an antisemetic self-hating Jew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hating_Jew

 

[Sky_rocket]

No- he didn't convert. He is a Christian guy with roots in the US Deep South. Keep in mind this is a Russian Muslim girl from Brooklyn that he met in NYC. My friend is a NYC hedge fund guy and the girl, when he met her, was an off the boat Russian girl. Off the boat Russian girls coming to NYC and finding themselves in a relationship with a hedge fund guy normally don't make such demands. If she had made the religious conversion demand, he would have found a way to negotiate it. For all I know, he negotiated the anal sex, but he claims she consented to it and considered it an act that keeps her virginity intact. This was the first time I ever heard such reasoning.

Hymen is kind of a big deal and a marker of a woman's chastity in honor based patriarchal societies..islam being one. From what I know, at least among the muslims in my country, it is expected of the the bride to bleed (hymen breaking) while indulging in intercourse with her husband for the first time after marriage. I have seen a few cases where the husband had filed for a divorce just a matter of days following the wedding - I presume it was the reason I mentioned. However, most of these cases happen in the more religiously attuned and uneducated portions of their society. Anyone who has gone to school will know that hymen can break for a multitude of reasons other than intercourse.

Regarding anal intercourse, I quite not sure what their religion has to say, but given how heavily their religious text has borrowed from the talmud and the bible, we can expect that anal sex is forbidden just like in judeo christian tradition.

 

[rollingstone]

No- he didn't convert. He is a Christian guy with roots in the US Deep South. Keep in mind this is a Russian Muslim girl from Brooklyn that he met in NYC. My friend is a NYC hedge fund guy and the girl, when he met her, was an off the boat Russian girl. Off the boat Russian girls coming to NYC and finding themselves in a relationship with a hedge fund guy normally don't make such demands. If she had made the religious conversion demand, he would have found a way to negotiate it. For all I know, he negotiated the anal sex, but he claims she consented to it and considered it an act that keeps her virginity intact. This was the first time I ever heard such reasoning.

Like any other religion there are people who more religious or more observant than others. You can go to Dubai and find tonnes of muslim women having sex with non-muslims (both normal and anal). In Marrakech I had to make sure I did not make any noise going up to her appartment so I dont alert her neighbors. In Dubai that's not an issue and no one cared I was bringing a woman back to my place. Different countries have different sensibilities and what passes for acceptable behavior. Cases like this Indonesian thing get coverage because of the shock factor.

 

[rollingstone]

Interesting and it helps make my point. The religion needs a reformation. They are no longer nomadic tribes wandering through the desert. If they could only be more like modern day Catholics who skip mass but sneak in to grab a church bulleton as proof that they were there to placater their parents. However, that would require 35 bulletons a week instead of 1.

You are generalizing a lot here. Like any religion you have the pious and true believers, the fanatics and fundamentalists, and those who dont observe any of the practices and pay only lip service. Lots of people skip prayers, drink , fuck...etc...Catholics do not have a monopoly on that.

 

[Doc Holliday]

A friend of mine who lives in New York City started dating a Muslim girl. They eventually got engaged and even while they were engaged, she denied him vaginal intercourse, but allowed anal intercourse. Her reasoning/rationale in allowing premarital anal intercourse was that as long as the vagina wasn't touched, her virginity was preserved for marriage. We all thought this was funny and wondered where in Muslim law it says premarital anal sex is okay and preserves virginity.

I dated a hot girl while in high school for about six months and she was a virgin. But she gave me a blowjob every few days for nearly 6 months. It was okay, i suppose. I wasn't much experienced back then. I felt lucky to get a blow job from such a hot-looking girl, although no one knew at the time nothing else was going on sexually. She didn't even want me to eat her pussy, which was okay i guess. She wound up losing her virginity before she ever got married. So sucked to be me, i guess.

 

[Mod30]

Stay on the subject of this thread. Cleaned.

 

[cloudsurf]

This punishment is stupid. Christian societies learned how to depart from religion. Unfortunately, Muslims and Jews are still slaves to their old beliefs. Call me a pessimistic girl, but I don t think that this situation is going to change any time soon.

Sara,
You can`t generalize like you do because it shows your ignorance.
All religions have their minority of fundamentalists and extremists......the silent majority are not.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews and fundamentalist Christians are just as intolerant as Islamist terrorists.... except in their degree of violence.
Again the majorirty in most religions is relatively tolerant.

 

[RobinX]

All religions have their minority of fundamentalists and extremists

This is true. In the case of Islam, the worst offenders, when it comes to the strict enforcement of Sharia Law are Saudi Arabia and ISIS, in that order. Sharia Law also applies in other Muslim countries, but is not always fully and strictly enforced, as it is by Saudi Arabia and ISIS. There are a series of offenses punishable by death, under Sharia law, usually by means of beheading, in the case of Saudi Arabia and ISIS. These include insulting Islam, acts of homosexuality and adultery (if the adulterer is married). In the latter case, Sharia Law is very specific. The death sentence must carried out by public stoning until death.

It is interesting that while Saudi Arabia is as barbaric as ISIS, Western countries are friends and allies with Saudi Arabia and enemies of ISIS. Of course, ISIS is seen as a direct threat to the West, while Saudia Arabia is not, and Saudia Arabia has the world's largest oil reserves. Money invariably trumps morals. Even though Saudi Arabia supports and fosters the most extreme form of Islam with the most extreme practices, and despite Saudi Arabia's apparent involvement in 9/11, since most of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, the US and it's Western allies refuse to sanction Saudi Arabia. This includes Canada, which signed a $15 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia, while Harper was in power.

Saudi Arabia has just performed a mass public execution of 47 people in one day, mostly by beheading. The 47 were accused of terrorism but included a Shia Cleric who was a fervent dissident against the Sunni Muslim Saudi royal family and had called for their deposal during the Arab spring uprisings in 2011. However, do not expect any concrete action from Western countries because money trumps morals.

 

[Lawless]

And to make things worse, the guy doing the caning is wearing Flip Flops...

Hi Everyone..:smile: