Malarek insults Stella, SPoC, etc.

[HaywoodJabloemy]

To continue on the subject of Victor Malarek, which arose in this Merb thread started in March by CaptRenault:

Malarek is still ridiculously trying to tell anyone left who will listen to him that the "vast majority" of sex workers in Canada are foreign women kidnapped, held prisoner, and forced into the business against their will. And he insults the sex worker groups campaigning for decriminalization (Stella, SPoC, Maggie`s, Pivot Legal Society, etc.) when he gives speeches or talks to parliamentary committees.

Malarek said some lobby groups want prostitution legalized. They say it would make the sex trade safer for women...

"It`s a bandwagon of happy hookers, who thinks that every woman on the planet wants to be a prostitute," he said. "Once you legalize, you open the floodgates.

...What galls me about the pro-legalization lobby is the wording of their position, oozing with sanctimonious concern for prostitutes, declaring that the sex trade is a profession central to the subsistence of many women who deserve the same workplace safety and social respect as any other member of society.

It`s one thing to believe that legalizing prostitution will somehow better protect these women from harm, but it is quite another thing altogether to suggest that prostitution is a worthwhile career, deserving of social respect. Think of it: recruiters heading into high schools and universities on career day to promote to our daughters the benefits of becoming a prostitute...

So just who are the advocates of legalization? This is the question that everyone should be asking. For the most part, they`re a ragtag bunch of former prostitutes singing the praises of life on the streets as a happy hooker. And behind these women, always, slinking in the shadows, pulling their strings, are pimps, brothel owners, and low-life criminals...

If Malarek could just be honest and admit he`s been duped into repeating huge nonsensical fabricated numbers, he would realize everyone would be on the same side, since everyone wants safety and freedom and no one favours coercion. But instead he continues to push his thinly veiled false prohibitionist agenda.

What we could use in Canada is some real surveys and information gathering, as done by New Zealand`s Prostitution Law Review Committee, which exposed the fear-mongering lies of the prohibitionists.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

More Malarek nonsense urging everyone to ignore the opinions of those who are actually involved in the business and speaking for themselves.
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/617144

You have no patience with what you call the "happy-hooker lobby," which claims that these are pros who take pride in their jobs and exercise choice.

The happy-hooker crowd is shilling for the porn industry, the strip clubs, pimps and escort services...

 

[Techman]

Malarek is an ass. He is always sensationalizing things to make them appear to fit his argument. Almost all of his articles about prostitution focus on the worst cases...the street girls in Vancouver or the Eastern European sex slave trade. While these problems do exist and they are terrible situations that need to be corrected, they are by no means the average example of the sex industry in Canada.

I love the way the comments on the story are closed. It seems that when the comments seemed to start turning against their point of view that they just shut things down. Amazing.

 

[Gotsome]

Well, the very worst aspect of prostitution would be the exploitation whether it be from pimps, boyfriends, agencies, to pump $ out of working girls like a personal oil well, or that some customer would exploit the services of a prostitute to vent his personal frustrations, hate, sadism etc.

Malarek, just by reading his articles, is also exploiting prostitutes, not for sex or profit, well maybe for some profit, but he uses them to prop his self image as an anti-prostitute puritan. His motives are entirely self indulgent and not for altruistic reasons as he makes it out to be. The real motive behind Malarek probably lays around the fact that he can't get it up or something.

 

[La Femme]

This is appalling!

 

[GTA refugee]

The guy is a journalist, a dirt digger. Some of these people will manufacture a story if there is no story. He has to report something sensational to sell it. The CBC is a sinking ship, he is a rat on deck holding on to dear life for himself.

 

[CS Martin]

1) One wonders if the total decriminalization** of prostitution would give authorities both the money (taxing it) and the ability to more effectively fight
any human trafficking and/or underage trafficking issues? I.E., would it be easier to fight the criminal element?

2) Would women's groups become more effective if women were able to openly choose what constituted exploitation?

3) Could total decriminalization** lead to reasonable zoning & health regulations, thus accomplishing the same goals as the current statutes?

**except human trafficking & undersaged prostitution.

 

[Merlot]

1) One wonders if the total decriminalization** of prostitution would give authorities both the money (taxing it) and the ability to more effectively fight
any human trafficking and/or underage trafficking issues? I.E., would it be easier to fight the criminal element?

2) Would women's groups become more effective if women were able to openly choose what constituted exploitation?

3) Could total decriminalization** lead to reasonable zoning & health regulations, thus accomplishing the same goals as the current statutes?

**except human trafficking & undersaged prostitution.

Hello all,

Before any of you feel the need to point out the hypocrisy of my hobbying versus my point of view on this matter, let me say you would be redundant about citing a point I already admit to. But go for it if you feel you must. But, I choose compassion for the conditions of prostitutes over any worries about spreading prostitution.

Remember first that there are women and girls as well as men and boys involved in prostitution. It is not just a female issue. But regardless of who has chosen or been forced by circumstance or slavers into this business it's a dangerous way to live for all. How much of this condition is due to the illegality of the business? Probably nearly all of it.

As many know, I have never been in favor of this "business" as a good choice for a livelihood for anyone. I have been generally undecided about legalizing prostitution and would never like to see it encouraged. However, if there is a scrap of compassion in anyone for all of the suffering and danger in prostitution that obviously has not been solved by preaching or attempting to enforce morality and the law, or fighting against abusers, then it must be obvious that something else must be done.

When human beings can simply be kidnapped and forced into prostitution and slavery it's seems to me that we have to end a situation in which the prostitute in effect is held captive by two sides: the captors and the legal authorities the prostitute fears from the threat of prosecution. And it's not just the specter of forced prostitution or slavery that seems to make legalization necessary. Because the business is illegal everyone in it, whether by choice or force, faces far greater chances of abuse or death than any other livelihood simply because it's illegal and the authorities can seem like as much of a threat to prostitutes as the abusive clients and/or dangerous pimps and enslavers that exploit them. Maybe by legalizing prostitution and making the authorities more of a positive force in this business prostitutes will have a much greater chance of protection and safety, as well as a better chance to leave the business, eventually, without facing so much physical and psychological damage or feeling they have no choice to leave because of the abusers on one side and the fear of the law on the other.

?????

Merlot

 

[CS Martin]

******editted************

 

[CS Martin]

******editted************

 

[CS Martin]

******editted************

 

[eastender]

Victor Malarek

A few points about Victor Malarek.

Read "Hey, Malarek!" before commenting on someone that you may know a bit as a talking head. At least Google his name and learn something.

His background - where and how he grew up will be very revealing. Growing up the way he did results in an attitude that keeping others from following the same path is a noble goal. Since the bad guys do not follow any rules then that is how the game will be played.

 

[Regular Guy]

What else then?

Prostitution only exists in the context of male-defined cultures: the civilized world in other words, where women were long known and to a certain extent are still known as inferior. Civilization is partly defined by division of labour where women were long confined to static roles of housewives and child-bearers...

Conversely, in the context of generally egalitarian ethos of hunter-gatherer or foraging societies, prostitution does not exist.

Same with matrilineal Iroquois, Crow and Pueblo societies: prostitution is alien.

Well not to put too fine a point on it that may be true but when Cook and his bunch arrived in Hawaii his men got it for free. First European visitors to an Inuit igloo were quite astonished with the matter of fact way in which the host offered the services of his wife for a night. This kind of thing was even common well into the twentieth century in Africa among the Masai, for example. Premarital and to some extent marital promiscuity was common in many stone age cultures, possibly because they had very little knowledge of human genetics. No need to pay for it if you can get it for free. The institution of marriage was tied to an eventual desire for sexual exclusivity in a mutually beneficial liaison between male and female, as you say. In the presence of institutionalizing this exclusivity with marriage, prostitution was born to fill a niche where only short term liaisons were possible for certain males as a result of geography, profession or time. Certain females realized the economic benefits and the colourful lifestyle and were prepared to risk censure.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

So what his numbers are off?..

Yeah, right. What do facts matter when he's pretending to be a journalist, and he's backing up his assertions (that far too many gullible North Americans are ready to believe without questioning) with lies?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/spectator/spec51.html

http://www.dangardner.ca/Colmar1408.html

...I've done extensive research on prostitution in the Netherlands and I've never heard of these studies anywhere but Malarek's book.

And here's an important number -- zero -- ironically revealed by abolitionists eager to believe Malarek's lies, through a freedom of information request.
http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=2cd6f659-68fb-4001-ad23-57cc587d6374

...since the solicitor-general's office to combat human trafficking was set up two years ago, there hasn't been a single victim rescued or charge laid.

...High-profile police raids on massage parlours, escort agencies or brothels haven't yielded a single victim...

 

[Techman]

Are you concerned with Malarek's credentials or with prostitute's safety? That's what I'm saying.

I would expect that everyone's safety, prostitute and client, should be everyone's concern. But the way Malarek inflates the statistics and attempts to inflame the situation with bold faced lies and absolutely no proof to back up his claims does more damage than good.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

Are you concerned with Malarek's credentials or with prostitute's safety? That's what I'm saying.

Yes. Both.
As Dan Gardner pointed out in his column, Malarek is dishonestly pretending to be concerned about their safety in order to falsely advance his abolitionist agenda, directly in contrast to sex workers who want decriminalization so they can work more safely.
That's what I'm saying.

 

[eastender]

Damage

I would expect that everyone's safety, prostitute and client, should be everyone's concern. But the way Malarek inflates the statistics and attempts to inflame the situation with bold faced lies and absolutely no proof to back up his claims does more damage than good.

Certainly does not damage the prostitutes or put them at greater risk. That it shines a more powerful light on the cockroaches may have certain merit.

Malarek's methods helped us understand the situation in some of the early youth institutions and created change.

 

[Techman]

Certainly does not damage the prostitutes or put them at greater risk. That it shines a more powerful light on the cockroaches may have certain merit.

Malarek's methods helped us understand the situation in some of the early youth institutions and created change.

I would say that his methods do exactly that by forcing prostitutes to go and remain underground to avoid the authorities. It also may force some to depend on pimps for their safety as they cannot depend on the authorities who are more interested in punishing and fining them than actually helping them.

As for Malarek's methods, while in the distant past when he first came on the scene he may have achieved some useful goals, lately, like Howard Galagnov, he has become more of a boy who cries wolf than anything else.

 

[Regular Guy]

There just might be a tad more to it...............

Inuit and Maasai societies were strongly patriarcal. Traditionally, division of labour was gender-specific.

The division of labour may be gender specific but this just may be more a function of biology than initiative by males. A definition of division of labour should also include role play. The worth of women in primitive cultures cannot be diminished simply by the rationale of male initiatives to dominate. Men and women relate to the world from a totally different perspective. So what yardstick do you use to measure their degree of satisfaction from assumed roles. Generally speaking women were highly valued intrinsically not merely as a convenience to be dominated and exploited. It seems that in patriarchal societies sexual exclusivity in the institution of marriage just may serve men more than women. Indeed this fact is a tenet of anthropologists who study primitive cultures. Also women are not above instituting a few initiatives of their own where men are concerned even in what are defined as patriarchal societies. The power of women in the rituals of courtship are a fact even in patriarchal societies. So the big question is, “Does the institution of marriage and sexual exclusivity serve men or women to a greater degree?” If you agree that it serves men to a greater degree then I guess prostitution is out. If you agree that it serves women to a greater degree then you are advocating that the resources they can exchange with men are exclusive to marriage. Perhaps arguments can be made for both sides. And therein lies the conundrum.

 

[eastender]

Pre Malarek

I would say that his methods do exactly that by forcing prostitutes to go and remain underground to avoid the authorities. It also may force some to depend on pimps for their safety as they cannot depend on the authorities who are more interested in punishing and fining them than actually helping them.

As for Malarek's methods, while in the distant past when he first came on the scene he may have achieved some useful goals, lately, like Howard Galagnov, he has become more of a boy who cries wolf than anything else.

Again the situation you describe pre-dates Malarek who was born in 1948. The relationship you describe between prostitutes and the authorities pre-dates Malarek by many centuries.So I fail to see how this situation may be placed at his door.

The useful goals you describe include breaking the code of silence that existed around juvenile institutions. Now he has given a voice to the code of silence that existed around the global sex trade. Hardly a Howard Galganov.