Malarek insults Stella, SPoC, etc.

[JustBob]

Malarek is simply trumpeting the radical feminists view on prostitution which posits that it degrades women and furthers the power politics of the male gender. There are two main problems with this theory:

1. It relies on generalizations and stereotypical notions of what a prostitute (or prostitution) is. Oversimplifying an issue frequently produces a logical outcome that can support just about any position.

2. It shows a lack of understanding of contemporary ethical concepts such as virtue, morality, and degradation. Of course, radical feminists will brush that aside, since they never admit they are taking an ethical position in moral terms.

 

[La Femme]

Malarek is simply trumpeting the radical feminists view on prostitution which posits that it degrades women and furthers the power politics of the male gender. There are two main problems with this theory:

1. It relies on generalizations and stereotypical notions of what a prostitute (or prostitution) is. Oversimplifying an issue frequently produces a logical outcome that can support just about any position.

2. It shows a lack of understanding of contemporary ethical concepts such as virtue, morality, and degradation. Of course, radical feminists will brush that aside, since they never admit they are taking an ethical position in moral terms.

Thank you for pointing that out! I've had it with people blaming everything and nothing on the big bad feminists.

Like any school of thought, feminism has its extremists and they do not represent the majority.

As for the rest of your message, I also agree with you.

 

[YouVantOption]

Good for the goose

JustBob is simply trumpeting the radical feminists view on prostitution which posits that it degrades women and furthers the power politics of the male gender. There are two main problems with this theory:

1. It relies on generalizations and stereotypical notions of what a radical feminism is. Oversimplifying an issue frequently produces a logical outcome that can support just about any position.

2. It shows a lack of understanding of contemporary ethical concepts such as virtue, morality, and degradation. Of course, JustBob will brush that aside, since he will never admit they are taking an ethical position in moral terms.

 

[JustBob]

JustBob is simply trumpeting the radical feminists view on prostitution which posits that it degrades women and furthers the power politics of the male gender. There are two main problems with this theory:

1. It relies on generalizations and stereotypical notions of what a radical feminism is. Oversimplifying an issue frequently produces a logical outcome that can support just about any position.

2. It shows a lack of understanding of contemporary ethical concepts such as virtue, morality, and degradation. Of course, JustBob will brush that aside, since he will never admit they are taking an ethical position in moral terms.

Fascinating...

 

[eastender]

I See..............

Just a guess but I would venture to say that not everyone has read his work or knows the man and really, in the end analysis, this fact is irrelevant to a discussion on ethics in journalism.



Hold the phone a minute. I think you have the cart before the horse. First comes the proposition then the facts to back it up.


Never made that claim. I simply stated that a fair and unbiased study must be comprehensive both by intent and design. To selectively choose the facts to support one's proposition and fail to account for other variables is either a mark of incompetence or a lack of ethics.

Guess reading his work would be expecting too much. Certainly would take away from comment time.

Proposition / Facts. Facts do not necessarily need a proposition. A runaway truck going 100km towards a group of people does not require a proposition for someone to determine that there is a possibility of danger.

Fair and unbiased study. Simply someone else should be able to replicate the findings or disprove the findings. Within the context of the thread this would mean show that there is ABSOLUTELY no prostitution to disprove.Doubt that this could happen. Showing that the numbers vary according to time and place would only support what is known - another pail of sand on the beach.

 

[Regular Guy]

There is more to this................

Guess reading his work would be expecting too much. Certainly would take away from comment time.

Well I don't know about the rest of society. Perhaps they just never ran across his work. But as for myself I listened to him rant and rave on a radio talk show about the despicable things the evil johns do to the quivering progeny of the human traffickers. That was two hours of my life I'll never get back. Think I'll pass on the book.

Proposition / Facts. Facts do not necessarily need a proposition. A runaway truck going 100km towards a group of people does not require a proposition for someone to determine that there is a possibility of danger.

Well I was replying to your position that prostitution is a fact and the rest is interpretation. Well okay prostitution is a fact. It would have been great if he had ended it there but he went on with facts concerning the nature of both subgroups, prostitutes and johns. He also presented as fact the elements of the nature of the hobby. Interpretation? No he laid out fact after fact. But you know? A lot of what he said had merit. My quarrel is not with the accuracy of a lot of what he said but with what he didn't say.

Fair and unbiased study. Simply someone else should be able to replicate the findings or disprove the findings. Within the context of the thread this would mean show that there is ABSOLUTELY no prostitution to disprove.Doubt that this could happen. Showing that the numbers vary according to time and place would only support what is known - another pail of sand on the beach.

This is not the kind of study where we throw a match into a test tube then see if our buddy in South America can also get it to explode 9 times out of 10. It is not about disproving the existence of prostitution. Okay I will give you that prostitution exists. You are not getting my point that this is about people not numbers. The study has a qualitative element to it not just quantitative.

Read my next post:

 

[Regular Guy]

A final note in the discussion for me

Just a final note here. I listened to the radio show again today to see if there might have been feedback from the previous day. Talk show hosts sometimes do this. This talk show host was somewhat sympathetic to Victor Malarek yesterday but I know him to be relatively intelligent and unbiased with his own work. In any event he wanted to share an email he had received after the show. He kind of rationalized it but the very fact that he chose this piece gave me pause.

The e-mail was from a chap who felt the impersonalization of an act which should have been a sharing between two people who had engaged in sharing, out of caring, respect, at the very least should incorporate a mutually shared regard for each other. He realized that this was held to be the highest standard where the morals and values we hold dear were concerning intimate relations between the sexes. He felt that prostitution fell short in that regard. He confessed that he had trouble with relationships. He cared for women but just didn't seem to be able to attract them (He didn't state the reasons. There are those in society either through physical disability or emotional trauma bear the scars.) There were many occasions where the longings born of loneliness were painful and of great sadness for him. His words in the e-mail were sincere and a painful baring of the soul. His pain certainly seemed genuine.

Now in the next part he went on to confess that he did frequent escorts and there found comfort if only for a brief moment. He was accepted without the preamble we call courtship. My point is that in all human interaction there are many dimensions. In this instance the very vilified activity of prostitution highlights the escort as healer. To be quite honest, if Victor Malarek had extended himself to make the effort to show even this dimension of it all I just might have been able to come away with a different point of view.

In any event, though the talk show host covered himself in his comments on th e-mail, what he did (by presenting this very touching expression of the very human need to connect with another on an intimate level notwithstanding the illusion which was the dominant element of the experience) was to present a positive dimension to the activity of prostitution.

I can't help but get the impression that even he was sensitive to the excesses of Victor Malarek in presenting his thoughts.

 

[eastender]

Voices Being Heard

Just a final note here. I listened to the radio show again today to see if there might have been feedback from the previous day. Talk show hosts sometimes do this. This talk show host was somewhat sympathetic to Victor Malarek yesterday but I know him to be relatively intelligent and unbiased with his own work. In any event he wanted to share an email he had received after the show. He kind of rationalized it but the very fact that he chose this piece gave me pause.

The e-mail was from a chap who felt the impersonalization of an act which should have been a sharing between two people who had engaged in sharing, out of caring, respect, at the very least should incorporate a mutually shared regard for each other. He realized that this was held to be the highest standard where the morals and values we hold dear were concerning intimate relations between the sexes. He felt that prostitution fell short in that regard. He confessed that he had trouble with relationships. He cared for women but just didn't seem to be able to attract them (He didn't state the reasons. There are those in society either through physical disability or emotional trauma bear the scars.) There were many occasions where the longings born of loneliness were painful and of great sadness for him. His words in the e-mail were sincere and a painful baring of the soul. His pain certainly seemed genuine.

Now in the next part he went on to confess that he did frequent escorts and there found comfort if only for a brief moment. He was accepted without the preamble we call courtship. My point is that in all human interaction there are many dimensions. In this instance the very vilified activity of prostitution highlights the escort as healer. To be quite honest, if Victor Malarek had extended himself to make the effort to show even this dimension of it all I just might have been able to come away with a different point of view.

In any event, though the talk show host covered himself in his comments on th e-mail, what he did (by presenting this very touching expression of the very human need to connect with another on an intimate level notwithstanding the illusion which was the dominant element of the experience) was to present a positive dimension to the activity of prostitution.

I can't help but get the impression that even he was sensitive to the excesses of Victor Malarek in presenting his thoughts.

So Victor Malarek contributes to other voices being heard that previously were silent. Things tend to balance over time.

 

[Regular Guy]

Interesting but I haven't the slightest idea where you're getting at.

Well perhaps if you gave some thought to the popular saying," Prostitution is the oldest profession!" that might be a start.

 

[YouVantOption]

Well I don't know about the rest of society. Perhaps they just never ran across his work. But as for myself I listened to him rant and rave on a radio talk show about the despicable things the evil johns do to the quivering progeny of the human traffickers. That was two hours of my life I'll never get back. Think I'll pass on the book.

We all want to believe that every sex-worker is entirely un-abused, well-centered and balanced, not pimped, entirely devoid of drug use, and as a hot young girl simply can't get enough cock in her daily life that she turns to a life of prostitution to provide her with enough pipe to satisfy her insatiable nymphomaniac needs.

However, some subset, the value of which is up for discussion, are not like that.

Given that, what is an acceptable number for those being pimped / sold into prostitution?

ALSO: How can you tell, when you are banging some sweet young thing, if she is there willingly, looking for her cock fix only available from middle-aged men, and her greed for the almighty buck, or if she is there to satisfy the demands of her pimp?

 

[Regular Guy]

We all want to believe that every sex-worker is entirely un-abused, well-centered and balanced, not pimped, entirely devoid of drug use, and as a hot young girl simply can't get enough cock in her daily life that she turns to a life of prostitution to provide her with enough pipe to satisfy her insatiable nymphomaniac needs.

However, some subset, the value of which is up for discussion, are not like that.

Given that, what is an acceptable number for those being pimped / sold into prostitution?

ALSO: How can you tell, when you are banging some sweet young thing, if she is there willingly, looking for her cock fix only available from middle-aged men, and her greed for the almighty buck, or if she is there to satisfy the demands of her pimp?

No, it was never my point that none of this goes on. I am not suffering from a Polyanna complex. There is no question that terrible things go on with human trafficking, abuse, pimping, women entering the profession through necessity not by choice. I also am not naïve enough to believe that a young 18 year old hottie just swoons when some old fat and ugly client opens the hotel room door. But can you honestly tell me that there are zero exceptions. You must admit that there those who work totally independent of outside influences. Regardless of the longterm financial considerations they have made for themselves, several return to the professions for reasons of their own. Is it such a stretch to believe that many have adopted a mindset which allows a positive perspective on what they do? Of course they have. Are all clients disgusting perverted old (or young) men who cheat on their wives and are rotten to the core? Of course not. It may be true that there is a disproportional seedy element to all of this. I am not disputing that.

Look, I am not trying to sugar coat this business. To a great extent there is a lot of truth to the way Malarek paints this activity. But no one is ever going to convince me that he has achieved balance in his presentation. What is an acceptable percentage to warrant inclusion? Quite frankly I don't care. It is easy enough to include that percentage in one's writings to satisfy the need for perspective. But Malarek includes none of that. Instead he is selective in the facts he includes and further, engages in sensationalism, a practice, I believe decreases the value of any piece which purports to represent itself as “investigative journalism.”

 

[Regular Guy]

I'm singin' in the rain..........

You must forgive me, I'm trying so very hard all the time to be unhappy, it's exhausting. Could you, perchance, tell me the name of that pill doctor Z prescribed to you? You sound so always - how should I put it? - ''well-adjusted'', I'm jealous.

Well don't blow a fuse! Also I am a realist - read my last post above.

I don't know how we got into the side issue of whether prostitution is simply a variant expression of the basic characteristic of the relationship between male and female where primitive cultures were concerned. Interdependence to this day, whether material or emotional, remains an essential element of all relationships. Do many women hang their hats on this interdependence even today? Well I suppose the radical feminists might dispute this. However at least the material aspect would seem to be an essential element of prostitution doesn't it? Quite frankly it is not a significant element to this discussion as far as I am concerned. But what do I know? Those happy pills I have been ingesting have left me in a perpetual state of "happy as a clam" with a perpetual grin plastered all over my face.

 

[Techman]

I don't know how we got into the side issue...
....

To understand that, you have to realize who you are discussing with...10-19 and EE, the masters of the side issue. By the time this discussion has concluded, it will have only the slightest relation to the original topic of the thread.


Techman

 

[Techman]

That's because you invariably fail to see the possible ramifications of a discussion.

Nah. It's just that I get bored easily and have better things to do with my time than getting into yet another never ending discussion that will eventually just fizzle out with nothing resolved.

 

[Techman]

You mean discussions like ethnic cleansing of Quebec anglophones? That one fizzled out with nothing resolved.

Well, with more anglo public schools probably being shut down next year I think that discussion will resolve itself in time.

 

[Regular Guy]

To understand that, you have to realize who you are discussing with...10-19 and EE, the masters of the side issue. By the time this discussion has concluded, it will have only the slightest relation to the original topic of the thread.


Techman

Yeah, I'm exhausted!

 

[CS Martin]

******editted************

 

[JustBob]

It's called intellectual masturbation but it never results in blowing your load.

 

[Regular Guy]

Not complicated at all for a lot of guys................

What's the term? Oh, yea CO-SIGN!!!. When a discussion can't stay on point, not worth continuing.

Yeah I don't know why things get so complicated. It's very simple as the following conversations I overheard, illustrate:

"Yeah, you open the door and lay out a whole bunch of things she needs. She makes it clear that you can screw her, if you really have to, and she ................................Wait a minute! No that's how it goes at home. I always get these things mixed up. - Hang on! Gotta get this straight now........!"

and

I overheard one guy telling his friend, “When I got home, the jumping around the excited cries, all that kissing.................!”


“Boy that dog sure missed me!”

 

[Regular Guy]

It's slow sometimes folks!

Well, ladies, that has been another episode of Listen to the Johns, the daily pissing contest that gives the entire spectrum of opinions delivered by girly-men who (so desperately) need to pay to get women.

What, are you bored on a Sunday morning you got to find a half dead thread, pump a little verbal CPR into it and rattle everybody's cages? How about all us (how does that go again?) - girly-men head down to Cleo's this afternoon and start an encounter group for this affliction of needing to pay to get women.

Let's see now how does that go, "Hi! My name is ........... and I am a girly-man..............."