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Moment of Truth Arrives for France

EagerBeaver

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Ever since France enacted its silly policy banning Islamic scarves, I felt it was only a matter of time before the usual demented Islamic fundmentalist terrorists kidnapped some Frenchmen and threatened them with beheading if the policy is not revoked. The inevitable has now occurred:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/28/iraq.main/index.html

The question now is not the French policy, which is bizarre. The question now is, with the whole world watching, we will now find out whether France is truly a country of democratic principles, or a country of weasels that is dictated to by terrorists. Which is it going to be?

Notice how the kidnapping of Americans has stopped? Has anyone wondered why that is?
 

Lawless

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You cannot question your country though!
What do you want France to do, withdraw its troop from St-Pierre and Miquelon?
I am unaware of the policy in the US in relation to Islamic scarves, Where does your country stand on that?
Is is a matter of States, Counties of Cities?
 

EagerBeaver

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Lawless,

You are not getting it, this is not about the policy (there is no such policy anywhere in the USA or Canada to my knowledge), it is about the French response to terrorist demands.
 

Lawless

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I am getting it pretty well indeed!

You have to look at history to find out how France responded over the years.
Who have the best trained troops to respond to terrorism?
Israel, Germany and France! In that order!
Your country is still attemting to develop a policy! And when you find the way to do it, you bring your troops to trial!
 

Reppy

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Well, France did implement a dumb policy to begin with

Yet it doesn't give right to the terrorists to do what they did.

It shouldn't take terrorists to erase racist country policies...what a shame to France...shame
 

Lawless

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Sorry you didn'tread my answer! You should have understood!
France will respond as they have always done it, the hard way!
You frankly believe that banning the scarves is a racist policy?
We have banned knives in schools, is that a racist policy, some minorities have say so!
Where do you stand on that?
We are resisting the establishment Islamic tribunal/arbitration in our country, is that racist?
Another problem is Islamic women showing up at the broders; should they be requested to removed their scarfes? To be properly identified?
 

EagerBeaver

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I never said banning the scarves is a racist policy. Drrep said that.

We shall see how France responds. The two journalists may get beheaded within the next 48 hours. Perhaps, if France is so well trained to fight terrorists like you say, they should send in a commando squad like the Israelis did at Entebbe.
 

Red Paul

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Beaver remarks: "Notice how the kidnapping of Americans has stopped? Has anyone wondered why that is?"

On the other hand, supporters of the war say Madrid got bombed because Spain took part in the war. Very mysterious the motives of terorrists, especially when refracted thru the wishful thinking of conservatives.

Also, we should remember that President Reagan did business with terrorists in an attempt to free Americans. He did it in secret and the public was outraged when it found out. Still, we elected him and that was what he did.

UPDATE: I thought I'd add a bit to this. Because it's remarkable how supporters of the war ignore facts.

An American named Nicholas Berg was kidnapped a few months ago by Muslim extremists. As the world knows, they decapitated him and sent out a videotape of the deed. Is that a sign of being intimidated by "tough" American action?

Now, if Beaver owns a TV or has seen a newspaper, he knows about this crime. But when it comes to making a case for the war, it gets magically erased from his mind. I submit there is no other way to support the Iraq invasion: you have to disappear everything that is known and replace it with non-facts.

Remember also that various Muslim guerrillas and terrorists are fighting our soldiers right now in Iraq, and not without success. Beaver may believe that the kidnapping of Americans has stopped; but can he believe that the firing of RPGs on Americans has also stopped? That would be a stretch even for a hawk.
 
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pinkworm

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Originally posted by EagerBeaver

we will now find out whether France is truly a country of democratic principles, or a country of weasels that is dictated to by terrorists. Which is it going to be?

Notice how the kidnapping of Americans has stopped? Has anyone wondered why that is? [/B]
I don't think France is as "weasely" as you think.
The French are neither wimps nor weasels

"France has taken one of the hardest lines of any Western country in fighting Islamic extremism," writes reporter John Carreyrou in The Wall Street Journal. "Other democracies, including the US, have been criticized for excessive methods, such as holding prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But few have been as systematic and zealous as France in attempting to stamp out Islamic militancy."
 

cargo

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Don't forget that France has lived bad episode of terrorism attacks in the 70's the 80's and even the 90's (if my memory is good). They got a good experience of living with such a menace that can be useful to american.
Don't follow US in the Iraq war was not a "weasel move": They do what they consider good for them even if they fall in disrespect for the US.
 

Reppy

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At least France was good thinking on their own....for once a country who doesn't need ol granpa USA to tell them what to do.

Yet I still think France makes stupid policies ;)
 

Red Paul

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Cargo -- I think not going into Iraq would have been good for the US too, not just France.

Now, just to expand on my theme: I'm sure Chirac was playing his own political game thru all this -- angling for more oil, or whatever -- but ordinary people around the world all thought the US invasion made no sense. And boy, were they right.

It's tough to admit when you're in the wrong. You can always tell an American who doesn't want to face up to the mess we made for ourselves -- they talk about how awful France was for trying to stop us from making that mess.

Meanwhile, I'm amazed by how friendly the French are to Americans. Some of the intellectuals go for US-is-evil books, but mainstream magazines like Le Point still talk about us as if we were the greatest thing on earth. Too bad the guys behind "Liberty Fries" couldn't show as much class.
 

Doc Holliday

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France has always been our friend and ally

Pinkworm:

Excellent article. Thank you so much for posting this. A year or so ago, during the anti-french sentiment throughout the US in regards to them not supporting the Iraq invasion, my old history professor told me: "Johnny, if it weren't for France's help during the War of Independence, the Americans very likely would be speaking with a British accent today. Today's Americans do not seem to realize that France has been their number one ally for most of their existence."
 

EagerBeaver

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I am not blaming the hostages. Clearly, their captors want them to grovel. I feel sorry for the poor bastards, especially since they look like they will soon be losing their heads, and they were just out covering a story, and probably don't even agree with the headscarf policy notwithstanding what they are being forced to say publicly.
 

daydreamer41

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It is ashamed that these guys may die for such a stupid law. See, isn't freedom of Religion, as well as speech and press a great right. These guys are to be executed for a law that limits that freedom. France is in a sorrowful state of affairs.
 

EagerBeaver

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I think probably a better way to describe the law is provocative. But irrespective of that the French should not back down as it is a sovereign nation with a right to enact its own laws, provocative, stupid, or not, for any reason or no reason if it is the will of the French people through their legislators. France's policy should not be dictated by terrorists! I applaud Chirac but he should be sending in a commando team, not the foreign minister as a negotiator. I am sure the US military has given the French intelligence on where the scumbag captors are holed up, and France should handle this like the Israelis, Entebbe-style. That's what i would do if I was Chirac. According to a prior poster France has troops trained to do this, so let's see them go.
 
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Lawless

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Elvis said:
"All that being said, I still think it was stupid for the French and the UN not to go along with the US for the Irak war. We would have avoided all the mess we are in now."

Please explain how the so called "mess" is related to the absence of France or the UN! They would simply be in the said "mess" with the US!
Irak was a "mess" before it was invaded and is still a "mess" and will be a "mess" for years to come!
 
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