Myth or reality

[Jamesrenard44]

I went for drinks with an SP last week and we had a really interesting conversation.

She told me that the majority of her clients were man who weren't looking for a relationship, and bla bla bla.

I told her, and she confirmed that the majority of SP will say the exact same thing. Although, the girls may see that situation more temporarily than man. I know, as a society, we love to lie to each other but seriously! I strongly believe that they're are some John's and SP who truly doesn't want anything close to a relationship but the majority, I think it's a big lie.

Just reading some reviews about a woman will give you a real Gfe experience. Why are you looking for a Gfe experience if you don't want anything close to a relationship. Relationship are not the nirvana, there's some good and bad but kissing, cuddling, give and receive attention is a big part of it. If not, we call it friends with benefits or one night stands.

So really, are we that afraid of relationship? Are we obsessed with perfection and only seeking perfect body's and hoping to be cuddle at the end as a bonus?I

Edit: I realise that the phrase saying that John's are lying to theirself is badly written and I apologize. What I really meant is that I believe that they may be open to a relationship, but definitely not the one we know it today. I totally understand that a majority of John's are really not interested in living with someone, having sex with only one person, having to "rrport" to someone, ect.i get that. My point is that Sp's aren't looking for this either. Yes, money is an undeniable aspect but my question is (God I hope I'll write it carefully) : if some John's, or a majority of, definitely not everyone, would be open to different type of relationship and that Sp's, definitely not everyone, are or would be open to the same thing, are we, as a society, lying to ourselves? Are we afraid of relationship or just want to exclude some aspects of it? Could we go beside the fact that SP are generally more in shape and more beautiful than the general population in proportion?

Again, I apologize to offend some of you, that was definitely not the purpose.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Your post is very judgmental and confuses not wanting a relationship with "fearing" a relationship. In your own mind everyone should desire a relationship. I am here to tell you that this view is judgmental, old fashioned and condescending. I am single and don't want a relationship. What I wouldn't mind is an arrangement based on sex and dinner dates. That's something different than a relationship. And there are plenty of single people that think the same way and are not "living a lie" as you judgmentally conclude. Go take a look at the Seeking Arrangements website and it's proof to refute your notions. You would be very surprised at the response I got using SA in Montreal. And I am an American living 6 hours away and old enough to be the father of these women.

Not to be too harsh but your post represents the dinosaur logic of the past. But like dinosaurs this thinking is fading from the social consciousness. Seeking Arrangements represents the new dynamic, which straddles the territory between relationships and traditional pay for play interactions with prostitutes. SA covers a large swath of territory but essentially has given rise to the arrangement as a common economic arrangement, now popularized because the Internet enables selection processes not previously available to men and women who desired an arrangement.

 

[Passionné]

There are some mistaken ideas in the first post.

Except for my name I never lie to anyone in this hobby. There's no reason to. I don't have a wife or SO so there's nothing to lie about. I don't lie to anyone inside or outside the hobby. This we love to lie to each other thing doesn't include me. If anyone wants personal details or to know my feelings, if I'm not comfortable with that I tell them it's private. No lies necessary.

Who said I don't want a real relationship? I don't look for one with an escort of course, but as long as I'm free I'd like a GFE romp whenever I can find one. If a real relationship comes along then giddy up as long as it lasts.

Everyone worries how a relationship will work out. I'm not obsessed with perfection, especially in a relationship. But with escorts I'll take the most appealing and passionate I can find. Why would anyone do otherwise? That's not obsession. It's just natural.

No fear here my friend.

 

[sexdor]

A couple of members commented on the original post being judgmental . I did not interpret it that way.
Maybe it could have been phrased differently but I think its a good thread, interesting topic and I am curious to see where it goes.

 

[samclemens]

Just a personal opinion, and it doesn't reflect anyone else's. I did spend a lot of time, 4- and 6-day vacations to very nice locations, with a terrific lady from the Niagara Falls area a few years back. Also would do two- or three-night overnights with her whenever I was up there. We seemed to connect well. I'm a little older, and she was in her early 30's, old enough to relate on a mature level. She was a lot of fun to be with. It was a nice "relationship," if you will. But, it was "purchased." She liked the connection we had well enough to really be extremely financially reasonable for those trips. But, I have no doubt whatsoever that the primary reason was the money. And, I did not want any more-serious relationship. It was just a nice way to spend a few days, every once in a while, with an attractive young lady who was also always available for a couple of "romps" each day. Who wouldn't want those type vacations a couple of times annually. But, that was it. I never did want it to progress beyond that and she didn't, either. It went on for a couple of years. We both got what we wanted out of it. She worked as a "provider" for several years and was extremely wise with her money, and she made a terrific income. Her intention all along was to make enough money to "retire" without any financial concerns. And, she did. She has been out of the profession for a couple of years, now. I have not talked to her since our last "vacation" together, and that's how it should be. We were very friendly, but I don't think we were every truly "friends." Again, my time with her was extremely pleasurable, but neither of us sought more than that. I would certainly be open to a similar arrangement with another young lady at some point. But my "relationship" with this particular individual took well over a year to eventually reach the travel-together stage. I probably visited with her in NF at least five or six times (I used to visit that area fairly regularly for business), first for an hour a couple of times. Then, two hours, then three. Finally a 10-hour day-long visit that proved we could be with each other, followed by a 24-hour overnight which led to traveling together. At that point, I would arrange for her flight to the vacation destination. Financially it was fairly expensive, but I had enough disposable income. And, as indicated, I think she enjoyed my company enough ... and, enjoyed the location and all the "tourist" activities we did ... to join me for very reasonable compensation. The bottom line, though, is that I went into all of that knowing that no real relationship was going to develop, nor did I want one. Hopefully, we all realize that the "Pretty Woman" story only is a reality in Hollywood.

 

[Jamesrenard44]

Your post is very judgmental and confuses not wanting a relationship with "fearing" a relationship. In your own mind everyone should desire a relationship. I am here to tell you that this view is judgmental, old fashioned and condescending. I am single and don't want a relationship. What I wouldn't mind is an arrangement based on sex and dinner dates. That's something different than a relationship. And there are plenty of single people that think the same way and are not "living a lie" as you judgmentally conclude. Go take a look at the Seeking Arrangements website and it's proof to refute your notions. You would be very surprised at the response I got using SA in Montreal. And I am an American living 6 hours away and old enough to be the father of these women.

Not to be too harsh but your post represents the dinosaur logic of the past. But like dinosaurs this thinking is fading from the social consciousness. Seeking Arrangements represents the new dynamic, which straddles the territory between relationships and traditional pay for play interactions with prostitutes. SA covers a large swath of territory but essentially has given rise to the arrangement as a common economic arrangement, now popularized because the Internet enables selection processes not previously available to men and women who desired an arrangement.

I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to be judgemental. I'll try to explain in a better way my opinion or my question.

I guess that your statement regarding seeking arrangements explains it correctly. Yes People are looking for an arrangement. Correct me if I'm wrong but they're not much difference between that seeing SP. I'm not saying that people necessarily want a relationship as it's designed by society, what I'm trying to say is that I believe that people may want a different type of relationship, based on the fact that man and woman can be looking for the same thing, sex, liberty but with what we could compare to friendship since we enjoy spending time with people who we get along with. I realise that I badly explained my thoughts and I apologize for it.

 

[Jamesrenard44]

The term gfe is rather overused as a term and people use it to describe the kind of intimacy, DFK, whispering things in the ear, BBBJ, DATY, digits, trying kinky things, that are more likely to create erections than a cold, no kissing, CBJ session. Many reviewers feel uncomfortable doing that many details.

Also, any interaction is more enjoyable if there is some familiarity. So occasionally grabbing a bite to eat afterward with a provider you have seen 10 times and hearing some fun stuff about her current life adds to the fun for most johns. That is different than wanting to spend every waking moment with her during the five years or so that a typical marriage might last (not sure what the median marriage length is, I just put 5 years for illustration purposes).

I'll agree with you that GFE is sometimes used in that sense but also believed that it's use to distinguish a service that it's not only sex and leave.

Like I just said before, I think John's and SP may be open to relationships, but not relationships as its defined by society today. I agree that seeing someone and leave together is completely different but why couldn't it be a relationship and people to they're own thing on their side if that's what makes them happy.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to be judgemental. I'll try to explain in a better way my opinion or my question.

I guess that your statement regarding seeking arrangements explains it correctly. Yes People are looking for an arrangement. Correct me if I'm wrong but they're not much difference between that seeing SP. I'm not saying that people necessarily want a relationship as it's designed by society, what I'm trying to say is that I believe that people may want a different type of relationship, based on the fact that man and woman can be looking for the same thing, sex, liberty but with what we could compare to friendship since we enjoy spending time with people who we get along with. I realise that I badly explained my thoughts and I apologize for it.

I agree with what you are saying here. I think I was confused by how you were using the word "relationship." What we are talking about is not really a relationship but an "arrangement." On Seeking Arrangement there are carefully constructed boundaries between relationships and arrangements. Many of the women on SA offer carefully crafted disclaimers saying that they do not want a "relationship" that is romantic but at the same time don't have a problem getting together with a guy with whom they have chemistry for dinner, drinks and a little sexual intimacy afterwards. None of the ladies on SA see themselves as prostitutes, although many would argue that is exactly what they are. More than a few have told me that if a guy mentions meeting at a hotel his message is automatically deleted. One of the first rules of SA arrangements is never ask a girl to go to a hotel. It's basically your place or no place.

It's beyond the scope of your thread but my success rate on SA in Montreal, in terms of dates achieved in relation to messages sent, is MUCH higher than my success rate on SA in Connecticut. I have various theories about this all beyond the scope of the thread.

I agree with you that SA arrangements and regular arrangements with SPs can be very similar. Both are different than traditional romantic relationships. But we can view them as not so distant cousins in the world of economic arrangements between men and women.

I have now had sex with a number of women I met on SA. They do not view themselves as prostitutes. They view themselves as a more sophisticated animal called a "Sugar Baby." I will refrain from commenting on the logic of such reasoning as it's beyond the scope of the thread and in my mind somewhat pointless to debate anyway. Because a woman wants to be happy and she will be happy if she likes a label she has given herself.

 

[Jamesrenard44]

Yes but my pretention is that if SP want it, they're some or a lot of women out there who wants it too. As Eager brought up, they might on SA nowadays but realistically, if it's something that a reasonable amount of women and men wants, why does it have to be so difficult?

As for SP's involved in any type of relationship, I agree with you, it would be complicated and would require a lot of discussion. Regarding the money, if she or he is after your money, you definitely need to get out of there

 

[EagerBeaver]

I am guessing that you can have an arrangement with an SP that is quite similar to what is frequently negotiated on SA. However, there are barriers and distinctions between arrangements and relationships. For one thing, arrangements are usually once a week or twice a month and at all other times each of the parties respects the other's private life. One of the things I see a lot in profiles on SA is disclaimers like "no needy guys" and "no drama." That means the SA sugar babies, and most SPs in arrangements for that matter, don't want you texting them all the time or bothering them with dramas once the date is over. Guys who are emotionally needy invariably lose their wives and girlfriends in real life, something I have observed, and on SA the women don't want to deal with it in the first place.

However, neither SA, nor SPs you can have arrangements with, should be pursued for romantic relationships. Romantic relationships could develop, but they should never be pursued through those forums. That's just a mistake because with SA or SPs, most arrangements are going to come to an end sooner or later anyway, due to a girl leaving school or finding a boyfriend or getting a job and simply moving on. I go in with the attitude of enjoying it while it lasts because it isn't going to last, and doesn't have to. I kind of enjoy the hunt aspect of it anyway.

 

[chowzilla]

For some that is true.

But some just want some good company, and good sex

 

[SylvainP]

Je suis probablement un des rares ici à n'avoir jamais eu de blondes. Alors, j'aime rencontrer les travailleuses du sexe car je vis certaines choses avec elles que j'aimerais vivre si j'étais en couple. Ne vous en faites pas, je sais que ces femmes ne sont pas amoureuses de moi, mais elles me font quand même du bien, et pas seulement au niveau sexuel. Comme je n'ai jamais eu la chance d'être en couple, alors il est peut-être plus normal que je sois l'un des rares à vouloir être en couple au moins une fois dans sa vie.

 

[Jamesrenard44]

Sylvain, si c'est que tu recherches, je te le souhaite. Soit simplement prudent, le monde des SP est monde artificiellement beau. La majorité des demoiselles font partie des exceptions: elles sont exceptionnellement belle, particulièrement attentionné et très ouverte d'esprit sexuellement.

Le monde hors SP peut être tout aussi extraordinaire mais c'est plus exceptionnel, engénéral, les femmes seront belle c'est certain mais elles seront comme toi et moi, compléxer un peu de leur défaut, insécure dans leurs actions, etc. Personnellement, c'est un aspect que j'aime bcp si on compare à la réalité des escortes que j'ai personnellement rencontrer qui sont des femmes très forte, affirmer et qui affiche une très grande confiance en elle. C'est séduisant mais j'aime voir aussi que l'autre personne soit tout aussi insécure que moi. Chacun ses goûts tu sais.

A savoir si tu es l'un des rare, c'est possible mais au bout de la ligne, c'est ce que tu désires qui compte

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

But some just want some good company, and good sex

That should be the case. If you are looking for a relationship in the hobby you are perhaps looking in the wrong place, have a serious look at the Sp and think, if I was not paying her would she be here with me now.
This hobby should be for entertainment purposes only for a vast majority myself included ( I have been to some GT's ). Not saying it is not possible as you can also be struck by lightening. Many of these fine ladies do their jobs very well and it may be easy to think that she is into you or things clicked on an extreme level as I have read in some reviews.
Just my opinion.

 

[SylvainP]

Jamesrenard, je sais que le monde des SP est différent du monde hors SP. Nous avons tous besoin d'affection, de tendresse, d'être touché(e). Si je ne peux l'avoir des femmes non SP, pourquoi ne pas aller la chercher chez les SP, et ce, de façon respectueuse?

 

[jalimon]

That should be the case. If you are looking for a relationship in the hobby you are perhaps looking in the wrong place, have a serious look at the Sp and think, if I was not paying her would she be here with me now.
This hobby should be for entertainment purposes only for a vast majority myself included ( I have been to some GT's ). Not saying it is not possible as you can also be struck by lightening. Many of these fine ladies do their jobs very well and it may be easy to think that she is into you or things clicked on an extreme level as I have read in some reviews.
Just my opinion.

Exactly it's 2 different world that cannot be mixed up. I myself see SP to have sex. And I tell them! Forget the GFE (I tell them to keep that for their boyfriend) and let's have pure sexual fun! Relationship is not even in my mind.

 

[Jamesrenard44]

IJe n'ai jamais dit le contraire.I'm only saying don't look for the same type of women or the same type of personalities. That's all

I absolutely have nothing against John's and SP. If you are looking for something else, it's another story. Pour moi c'est simple, une SP est la pour combler un fantasme, une envie particulière, qu'elle soit sexuelle ou non. If it fill your needs, you're on the right track, if somethings missing, ask yourself some questions that's all.

 

[chowzilla]

Nobody should expect a relationship in this hobby
But I don't want to discourage people asking each other out because it does happen more often than you think.
SPs that retire... Retire with one of their clients... I've seen it happen enough times

 

[Doc Holliday]

Nobody should expect a relationship in this hobby
But I don't want to discourage people asking each other out because it does happen more often than you think.
SPs that retire... Retire with one of their clients... I've seen it happen enough times

Of course. Shit happens. In the movie and tv business, actors who meet on the set will sometimes wind up in relationships and sometimes marry one another. More often than not, it'll end up in breakups or divorces.

I've often regarded the sp/client business transaction as very similar to two (or three or more) actors meeting on a movie set acting out a scene together. Most of the time, they barely know one another, but both know they have a job to perform in order to fullfill their end of the business transaction. And once in a while, a relationship may develop unexpectedly and who knows where that will lead.

 

[SensualFlight]

Of course. Shit happens. In the movie and tv business, actors who meet on the set will sometimes wind up in relationships and sometimes marry one another. More often than not, it'll end up in breakups or divorces.

By the way, this is not exclusive to Johns/SPs relationships. Many, and I mean MANY relationships involving people totally out of this SP business also end up in breakups or divorces. It's no different. I've said it before, in different words: SPs are women, Johns are men, both have an history, as anyone out of this business has an history. If I was not already married, I would date an ex-SP anytime. At least I wouldn't have to hide this side of my life to her.

I am sometimes kind of amused by the self-loathing that appears in some of these threads. Johns that would never have a romantic relationship with a hooker, and hookers who would never have a romantic relationship with a John, even though the decision to sell and purchase commercial sex has caused both parties to cross a similar societal boundary, that makes them have something in common with respect to how they view the world. A lot of them will instead date someone who would never consider selling of purchasing commercial sex and a past will have to be carefully hidden from the person they are dating.

Totally agree! And trust me, hiding that side of our life is not fun. I'd love to be able to open up about some of these "delicate" subjects with my wife, and stop lying to her.

SF